TX - Police respond to reports of shooter at Santa Fe High School, 18 May 2018

[EuTuCroquet?]

The shooting occurred across the street from where Mr. Zion graduation was being held, not at the school. The graduation was over with when the incident occurred and had nothing to do with the school

http://www.wrdw.com/content/news/Th...ded-outside-Georgia-graduation-483100591.html


OT

"Police in Clayton County south of Atlanta say one person was killed and another wounded in a shooting between people who had just attended a high school graduation ceremony."

>snip<

"The safety chief for the county's schools, Thomas Trawick, says the shots were fired in a Mt. Zion High School parking lot after an argument between people who had attended a ceremony for graduates of the Perry Learning Center, which prepares students for careers as an alternative to traditional high schools."

 

[Strangeworld]

Really? You think someone who deliberately killed 10 people could be a good man who made a very bad decision? I shudder to think what your definition of a bad man is.

No, I do not think he is a good man, very far from it. I was responding to a previous comment and talking hypothetically.

 

[human]

Here is some info on what was done in Walla Walla

https://acestoohigh.com/2012/04/23/...oach-to-school-discipline-expulsions-drop-85/

Lots more info. So so so excellent:

THE FIRST TIME THAT principal Jim Sporleder tried the New Approach to Student Discipline at Lincoln High School in Walla Walla, WA, he was blown away. Because it worked.

In fact, it worked so well that he never went back to the Old Approach to Student Discipline.

This is how it went down: A student blows up at a teacher, drops the F-bomb. The usual approach at Lincoln &#8211; and, safe to say, at most high schools in this country &#8211; is automatic suspension.

Instead, Sporleder sits the kid down and says quietly: &#8220;Wow. Are you OK? This doesn&#8217;t sound like you. What&#8217;s going on?&#8221; He gets even more specific: &#8220;You really looked stressed. On a scale of 1-10, where are you with your anger?&#8221;

The kid was ready. Ready, man! For an anger blast to his face&#8230;.&#8221;How could you do that?&#8221; &#8220;What&#8217;s wrong with you?&#8221;&#8230;and for the big boot out of school. But he was NOT ready for kindness. The armor-plated defenses melt like ice under a blowtorch and the words pour out: &#8220;My dad&#8217;s an alcoholic. He&#8217;s promised me things my whole life and never keeps those promises.&#8221; The waterfall of words that go deep into his home life, which is no piece of breeze, end with this sentence: &#8220;I shouldn&#8217;t have blown up at the teacher.&#8221;

Whoa.

And then he goes back to the teacher and apologizes. Without prompting from Sporleder.

&#8220;The kid still got a consequence,&#8221; explains Sporleder &#8211; but he wasn&#8217;t sent home, a place where there wasn&#8217;t anyone who cares much about what he does or doesn&#8217;t do. He went to ISS &#8212; in-school suspension, a quiet, comforting room where he can talk about anything with the attending teacher, catch up on his homework, or just sit and think about how maybe he could do things differently next time.

Before the words &#8220;namby-pamby&#8221;, &#8220;weenie&#8221;, or &#8220;not the way they did things in my day&#8221; start flowing across your lips, take a look at these numbers: 2009-2010 (Before new approach)

798 suspensions (days students were out of school)
50 expulsions
600 written referrals
2010-2011 (After new approach)

135 suspensions (days students were out of school)
30 expulsions
320 written referrals
&#8220;It sounds simple,&#8221; says Sporleder about the new approach. &#8220;Just by asking kids what&#8217;s going on with them, they just started talking. It made a believer out of me right away.&#8221;

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

So, state or federal, anyone under age 18 at the time of the crime cannot get the death penalty, nor can they receive life without parole. So the least amount of time this shooter will spend (if convicted of capital murder) is 40 years. The max is life, obvs, depending on whether he ever gets past a parole board.
From the Houston Chronicle: :maddening:

The accused Santa Fe shooter will never get the death penalty. Here&#8217;s why.

https://www.chron.com/news/houston-...shooter-will-never-get-the-death-12927133.php

&#8220;In Texas, after the Supreme Court&#8217;s decision, they passed a law that basically says that it&#8217;s a life sentence if you&#8217;re under 18 at the time of the crime,&#8221; said attorney Amanda Marzullo, executive director of Texas Defender Services. &#8220;The Court has said that it is cruel and unusual to execute an individual who is under 18 at the time of the offense.&#8221;

bbm

ETA:

&#8220;The court looked at teen offenders and said that juveniles are categorically different from adults in several very important ways,&#8221; said Robert Dunham of the Death Penalty Information Center. Among those considerations: teens were more immature, more prone to peer pressure and more likely to have a shot at rehabilitation, the justices said.

>snip<

Then in 2012, the Supreme Court took it one step further when the justices struck down mandatory life without parole sentences for juveniles. The following year, Texas legislators passed a law making life with parole - instead of life without parole - the only sentencing option for minors charged with capital crimes.

For life sentences where parole is an option, Marzullo said, the first chance at release comes after 40 years in prison.

 

[gitana1]

I disagree with you but I have the view that punishment should include a chance to become a better person. I don't think that vengeance does anything for society. He should be punished, severely but released when he is no longer a threat.

I'm typically with you depending on the crime and the culprit and their age. I don't think someone who rapes and murders a child should ever get out of prison. Maybe someone who was an accomplice in a murder could if they weren't too personally involved and reformed.

With young defendants it depends on the crime and them. This guy massacred multiple people. And not in a dispassionate spray of bullets. He was up close and personal. And taunting and laughing at his cowering victims as he methodically executed them.

IMO that makes him a defective, irredeemable monster who will never be safe to walk the streets again.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Lordy, I hope not!!! Socialization is a huge part of childhood development, and vital as they engage with and interact with others. ... Learning functional, healthy problem- and conflict-solving skills. ... We can deter gun violence in schools. Running away doesn't solve this type of problem. In fact, imo, isolating children might make things worse.

As more and more school shootings happen and with continued tax cuts to education I think online schooling will become the future for education.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

They were securing the scene and taking into custody persons of interest. They were working to contain the threat &#8212; to save lives.

They did everything by the book. IMO.

Should all schools be mandated to have on-site, fully staffed trauma wards? (/s)

And some of the students who were shot, likely did bleed out. Because nobody helped them, or got them any medical attention. Even after the shooter surrendered, the cops were more interested in protecting themselves by pointing guns at the students, then getting them any medical attention.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

(2012 article) How Columbine Shaped Police Response To Shootings

https://www.npr.org/2012/07/21/157154275/how-columbine-shaped-police-response-to-shootings

Baltimore County Chief of Police James Johnson, a 34-year veteran of the force and chairman of the National Law Enforcement Partnership to Prevent Gun Violence:

"In the past, the strategy was to respond - initial patrol units respond, and secure both inner and outer perimeters; and wait - sometimes a lengthy wait; for more equipped, response-type units from tactical, for example. Today, all across America, the practice is, police officers who are patrolmen, who initially receive the call, respond at the scene. Once they make an assessment, they cause an immediate intervention to freeze; stabilize; and keep the incident from moving throughout a larger structure, such as a mall or a school. In addition, there's been significant enhancements in officer armament, weapon upgrades and other technologies - from communication to other wireless improvements - to help us deal with active-shooter confrontations."

bbm

After Columbine the police procedure is supposed to be not to wait for SWAT.

The first step is to make an assessment, not to run into the line of fire, iiuc. They might run toward the sound of the gunfire, but there's definitely a "teamwork" aspect that involves LE direction.

It appears to me that the officers on scene did engage this shooter. One almost lost his life. They also made several assessments as to appropriate action, probably via communication with law enforcement.

We don't, at this time, know what those communications were, nor to we know the directives or reasonings given early in this crisis by law enforcement officials.

They did their jobs. IMO. LE and first responders are victims, too. I can't imagine the trauma they also face, the second-guessing, the self-doubt, the misplaced blame. ... Unimaginable.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

bbm

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/15/us/florida-school-shooting-columbine-lessons/index.html

"Nowadays, what we do is go to the sound of the guns," Gagliano said. "You get one, two, three, four people together. We're trained. We use particular formations."

Gagliano called it a "heterogeneous group" of first responders that could include local, state and federal agencies.

"You're going to the sound of the guns," he said. "The No. 1 goal is to interdict the shooter or shooters. In the old days, you took land. You went in. You clear the room. Then you slowly and methodically move to clear the next room. In this instance ... get to the shooter as quickly as possible and that's what they clearly did here."

The tactic, known in law enforcement circles as rapid deployment involving the first officer at the scene, began in earnest after the Columbine shooting.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

bumping my own post. lol

Maybe we should close the loophole in federal law that exempts gun owners from legal culpability when their guns are not properly stored, then stolen and used in crimes.

 

[Doghairrules]

I didn’t see this posted and I apologize if it’s a duplicate. This says LE engaged in a shoot out for 25 minutes.

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/sa...estigation/h_812f82c0b5cf5ed6609084e0a0b9f694

 

[Doghairrules]

And this. Heartbreaking and amazing, all at the same time.

The Santa Fe shooting victim worked two jobs to take care of her ill husband. Her death may end up saving his life https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/21/heal...ictim-cynthia-tisdale-profile-trnd/index.html

 

[Tbone144]

Today the copy cats are out in force in the Houston area.

Student arrested on campus with gun, Huffman TX

Student arrested on campus with gun, League City TX

Threat written on bathroom wall, Crosby TX

Threat written in text, La Marque TX

These kids must think this is all a joke. I hope there are serious consequences for their actions.

 

[Bernina]

bbm

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/15/us/florida-school-shooting-columbine-lessons/index.html

"Nowadays, what we do is go to the sound of the guns," Gagliano said. "You get one, two, three, four people together. We're trained. We use particular formations."

Gagliano called it a "heterogeneous group" of first responders that could include local, state and federal agencies.

"You're going to the sound of the guns," he said. "The No. 1 goal is to interdict the shooter or shooters. In the old days, you took land. You went in. You clear the room. Then you slowly and methodically move to clear the next room. In this instance ... get to the shooter as quickly as possible and that's what they clearly did here."

The tactic, known in law enforcement circles as rapid deployment involving the first officer at the scene, began in earnest after the Columbine shooting.

I think many people fail to realize that school security and LE are walking into chaos, and they have to identify one (maybe more) student, out of who knows how many, who could easily blend in with other students.
The shooter doesn't have a sign with "SHOOTER" on it.


These situations seem to be a no win situation for LE, damned if they do, damned if they don't. Society will always do their "Monday Morning Quarterbacking".
I, for one, am grateful for LE's response and I am in no position to criticize what they did, or didn't do. I wasn't there in their shoes.

 

[x_files]

Today the copy cats are out in force in the Houston area.

Student arrested on campus with gun, Huffman TX

Student arrested on campus with gun, League City TX

Threat written on bathroom wall, Crosby TX

Threat written in text, La Marque TX

These kids must think this is all a joke. I hope there are serious consequences for their actions.

most likely not that's why they do it.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

ALERRT ACTIVE SHOOTER DATA (Advanced Law Enforcement Rapid Response Training)

http://www.activeshooterdata.org/active-shooter-data.html

rolling map of active shooter events in the United States 2000-2015

[video=youtube;I3uiwoYSM1I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3uiwoYSM1I&amp;feature=youtu.be[/video]

 

[x_files]

ALERRT ACTIVE SHOOTER DATA (Advanced Law Enforcement Rapid Response Training)

http://www.activeshooterdata.org/active-shooter-data.html

rolling map of active shooter events in the United States 2000-2015

[video=youtube;I3uiwoYSM1I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3uiwoYSM1I&feature=youtu.be[/video]

that's horrifying

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

From the link:

A law enforcement official tells CNN that authorities are still trying to determine whether the shooter got the two guns used in the incident from his father.

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott said Friday, “It’s my information that both of the guns used in the Santa Fe, Texas high school shooting were obtained from his father.”

However, the law enforcement official says it has not been determined if the shooter got guns from his father.

The weapons used in the shooting were a sawed-off shot gun (which is illegal without a permit from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives) and a .38 caliber handgun purchased in the early 1990s, the official said.

Investigators have identified the original buyers, but how the weapons went from original buyer(s) ultimately to the shooter is still being determined, the official said.​

bbm

I didn’t see this posted and I apologize if it’s a duplicate. This says LE engaged in a shoot out for 25 minutes.

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/sa...estigation/h_812f82c0b5cf5ed6609084e0a0b9f694

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Texas governor will hold first roundtable on school safety tomorrow

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/sa...estigation/h_cc1a8c38419b8f4d861c1cec2ac52217

Parents, teachers, students, lawmakers, school administrators and mass shooting victims were invited to attend the roundtables. The discussions will also include proponents for and against gun regulations.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

University of Texas Medical Branch tweeted on Monday morning that two of the shooting victims are still in the hospital. One of them is in critical condition.

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/sa...estigation/h_90447ff31f19a1d8f566e78de091c54a