Found Deceased TX - Michael Chambers, 70, Hunt County, 10 March 2017 #7

[Tripod]

I've just gone back to reread some posts of our VI2, because I remember something he/she said that keeps popping up in my mind. Here's that post:

"In the past yes there relationship was something a couple could model theirs after. But the last couple years has been a different story.
They would go on trips together but it seemed as if it was out of obligation. Recently though BC has been going on vacations with friends."

I don't have any idea if a vague timeline of things seeming to have changed within MC's and BC's marriage relationship has bearing on this case, but it sure appears very likely. Of course, it leads to the boyfriends saga, and I do wonder if there might have been an additional affair partner that is unknown. We've tossed this around a little before, but just something on my mind tonight.

P.S. I realize that is not a proper link to that post, and I'm sorry about that. I didn't know how else to do it
P.P.S. The post was by Steel54.

 

[nannymo]

Ok, I'm still reading, but isn't it odd that his phone turned off at 5:50pm and she texted him to say she was coming home at that exact same minute, 5:50pm? That's awfully specific and exact timing!

I am still reading so if this has been mentioned my apologies. It is odd that:
1. BC's phone turned off at 2:30pm when Klein says she really got off work and MC's phone was at the 2 mile bridge property at 2:30,
2. BC's phone texted MC to say "I just got off, on my way home!" (which we know is a lie) just as MC's phone was turned off!
Someone earlier posted they noticed this also. I find this so NOT coincidental, but haven't a clue how it fits into the scenario!

IIRC didn't Klein state her boyfriend admitted they were together from 2:30 until she texted MC she was heading home? I need to go watch his interview again.

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

Bringing this forward from Thread #6:

I lean more toward a planned attack. I think stuff happened during the 3 weeks she was not working. I'm not sure why he went across the bridge in the morning, it could have been distrust or scoping her out or a million other reasons. It could also have been doing something to begin a divorce or separation. I think she chose that day to go back to work for a reason, part of the plan, had to act before he talked to an attorney.

TX - TX - Michael Chambers, 70, Hunt County, 10 March 2017 #6

RSABBM for focus.

I completely agree that the plan had been in the works for weeks, if not months. Something came to a head as she recuperated from her surgery, IMO. As has been discussed previously, MC might have threatened divorce or given BC some sort of ultimatum.

I couldn’t remember exactly how long BC was off from work, so I went over my old notes, and it appears she had the surgery on February 1st or 2nd of 2017 (my notes say “Feb. 1: BC posts [on FB] surgery ...” but I jotted this down in pencil and cannot tell if the next word is “today” or “tomorrow” ... ugh).

As I kept looking over my notes, I came across something that really got my attention:

@Razz posted this on May 2nd of last year:

I was in the bank today to get into my safety deposit box and the required my d.l.

I wonder if Pawpa went to his safety deposit box to w/draw something.

TX - TX - Michael Chambers, 70, Hunt County, 10 March 2017 #1

RBBM for focus

I think many of us on here find it curious that MC disappeared the very day BC returned to work; he was going to be home alone for the first time in five weeks.

To the best of my knowledge, we do not know where MC kept his original will, but apparently, a safe deposit box is often recommended as a good option for will storage.

Now I’m wondering if MC told BC he was going to remove her from his will, and if so, could BC have taken his driver’s license out of his wallet shortly before returning to work, so that he wouldn’t have access to his original will at least until he got a replacement license (that is *if* he kept his will in a safe deposit box, which we don’t know)? Or so that even if MC was able to have a new will prepared without the original (maybe law doesn’t require it) he wouldn’t be able to have it notarized without an ID. Either way, it might seem like a viable stalling tactic to someone who is desperate and running out of time.

I’ve long thought that the primary motive here was money. So it makes sense to me that the number one priority for the perpetrator would be to protect their financial interests; they would be more worried about MC potentially removing them from his will than a divorce, as the former would be a relatively simple process that would require only MC’s signature, whereas the latter would require both parties to work together.

The missing driver’s license has always been such a mystery to me, but perhaps it could be explained by a scenario like this.

 

[nannymo]

I am still reading so if this has been mentioned my apologies. It is odd that:
1. BC's phone turned off at 2:30pm when Klein says she really got off work and MC's phone was at the 2 mile bridge property at 2:30,
2. BC's phone texted MC to say "I just got off, on my way home!" (which we know is a lie) just as MC's phone was turned off!
Someone earlier posted they noticed this also. I find this so NOT coincidental, but haven't a clue how it fits into the scenario!

IIRC didn't Klein state her boyfriend admitted they were together from 2:30 until she texted MC she was heading home? I need to go watch his interview again.

Apologies for replying to my own post.
I went back and listened to the Klein interview. He states at 14:50 mark that she was calling the boyfriend at 2PM, right before the incident began. Later (around 21:15 mark) he says she was "done with work at 2", spoke to the boyfriend 3 times before her phone "went dark" for an hour to an hour and a half. (He says he doesn't want to be too specific with the timeline because people go crazy with that.)

Within 15 minutes of her phone coming back on, she is texting, calling, looking for MC. Calling/texting neighbors/family and eventually 911.

Questions weather she and the boyfriend were together, but does not state it as fact, just implies that is what may have happened.

I do believe these times are very close to what went down with MC. The timeline looks to be void of info from 2-2:30 thru 5:30-6pm.

(can we link the Klein interview with John Lordan? If not, I will remove.)

 

[Razz]

Bringing this forward from Thread #6:


TX - TX - Michael Chambers, 70, Hunt County, 10 March 2017 #6

RSABBM for focus.

I completely agree that the plan had been in the works for weeks, if not months. Something came to a head as she recuperated from her surgery, IMO. As has been discussed previously, MC might have threatened divorce or given BC some sort of ultimatum.

I couldn’t remember exactly how long BC was off from work, so I went over my old notes, and it appears she had the surgery on February 1st or 2nd of 2017 (my notes say “Feb. 1: BC posts [on FB] surgery ...” but I jotted this down in pencil and cannot tell if the next word is “today” or “tomorrow” ... ugh).

As I kept looking over my notes, I came across something that really got my attention:

@Razz posted this on May 2nd of last year:


TX - TX - Michael Chambers, 70, Hunt County, 10 March 2017 #1

RBBM for focus

I think many of us on here find it curious that MC disappeared the very day BC returned to work; he was going to be home alone for the first time in five weeks.

To the best of my knowledge, we do not know where MC kept his original will, but apparently, a safe deposit box is often recommended as a good option for will storage.

Now I’m wondering if MC told BC he was going to remove her from his will, and if so, could BC have taken his driver’s license out of his wallet shortly before returning to work, so that he wouldn’t have access to his original will at least until he got a replacement license (that is *if* he kept his will in a safe deposit box, which we don’t know)? Or so that even if MC was able to have a new will prepared without the original (maybe law doesn’t require it) he wouldn’t be able to have it notarized without an ID. Either way, it might seem like a viable stalling tactic to someone who is desperate and running out of time.

I’ve long thought that the primary motive here was money. So it makes sense to me that the number one priority for the perpetrator would be to protect their financial interests; they would be more worried about MC potentially removing them from his will than a divorce, as the former would be a relatively simple process that would require only MC’s signature, whereas the latter would require both parties to work together.

The missing driver’s license has always been such a mystery to me, but perhaps it could be explained by a scenario like this.

I pretty much agree with everything you've said, imho. However, I am beginning to think the d.l. was taken to perpetrate the myth that MC committed suicide. Who would know a firefighter takes his d.l. to later be identified should he/she expire in a fire or commits suicide and later needs to be identified? Those who perpetrated MC's murder, that's who. And that is exactly what this was. The murder of a sweet and gentle giant...... for money.

Those who committed, conspired and in any way know of what really happened to MC should be looking over their shoulders. There were so many mistakes made here. More than they know.

I am beginning to hear the faint tick tock of the clock that will ultimely put these murderers in jail and tried for murder in the 1st degree. ALL of them.

I hate being played for a fool. I hope others feel the same way.

 

[zencompass]

Dear Razz,

I absolutely agree with you about the clock tick tocking getting louder.

The tremendous pressure of this case will soon cause a break, somewhere, somehow, someone. I truly believe this will happen.

I feel that may be coming up very soon and I think the guilty ones must feel this in their bones.

Doesn't one of the guilty parties usually come forward, when they feel law enforcement takes a good look at them, to minimize their part in it?

The words of W.B Yeats in The Second Coming seem to apply to this case even more:

Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold

 

[ocgrad]

I agree with all these posts. They made mistakes. One thing I keep going back to is the box of cash in the shop. Klein said they were not pros or they would have taken that box. I think he may have been saying that was one of their mistakes. And I think that box definitely figured into it.
Interesting note about needing your DL at the bank. If you were trying to protect yourself from a spouse who had a gambling problem or who was supporting a boyfriend using large sums of your money and you withdrew money to empty an account you no longer wanted her to have access to they would give you a check. But you keep cash in a safe deposit box. That cash in a box in the shop, need to know more about that.

 

[ocgrad]

Another thing that bothered me about the box of money is that his kids didn't seem to know about it. Even his daughter and SIL who he seemed close to. Since they suggested she sell the Mustang for much needed money. Doesn't seem like that would have recommended selling things if they had known about all that cash.

 

[Tripod]

Another thing that bothered me about the box of money is that his kids didn't seem to know about it. Even his daughter and SIL who he seemed close to. Since they suggested she sell the Mustang for much needed money. Doesn't seem like that would have recommended selling things if they had known about all that cash.

And, we don't know if BC knew about the cash in the shop, either. If she didn't, good chance any perp/s didn't.

I also agree with the above posts. The missing DL has driven me bonkers for ages, too. That, how the injury that caused the blood drops happened, and of course, that danged phone travel...

 

[Tripod]

I want to add another post here, instead of editing it into my previous one. I've questioned myself about where this goes from here if there is no new info from HCSO, Klein or family relatively soon. I completely agree with the previous poster who said the pressure seems to be building, and we have to keep it up- we being the collective WS'ers, public, family, investigators.

We all know how so many terrible cases of missing persons and crimes can go on and on. It's difficult to keep discussions productive and lively, but I now realize that simply keeping a thread going, even without additional news to discuss, helps keep that pressure on. I'm here for the long run.
God bless Papaw and the entire Chambers family.

 

[nannymo]

Something else that bothers me....

The disappeared episode has SM stating rather emphatically that he has information that the family is aware of but he WILL NOT release that he thinks MC would commit suicide over, yet Klein mentions NOTHING about info he has found that worries him.

 

[Midge Montana]

I want to add another post here, instead of editing it into my previous one. I've questioned myself about where this goes from here if there is no new info from HCSO, Klein or family relatively soon. I completely agree with the previous poster who said the pressure seems to be building, and we have to keep it up- we being the collective WS'ers, public, family, investigators.

We all know how so many terrible cases of missing persons and crimes can go on and on. It's difficult to keep discussions productive and lively, but I now realize that simply keeping a thread going, even without additional news to discuss, helps keep that pressure on. I'm here for the long run.
God bless Papaw and the entire Chambers family.

BBM.
Absolutely #NeverGivingUp. I have family living with me temporarily so I have next to NO time to be on here, but trust me, that family knows all about this case, have watched the episodes with me, listened to my theories, new theories, different theories, etc. and I'm sure they will be just as happy as me the day his family and, really, everyone following gets some real answers.

A big thanks to those of you that help me stay caught up and answering the questions I have because of missing out.
My mind, heart and hopes are with Michael Chambers and his loved ones every single day, and his bracelet on my wrist several days a week. (I rotate between him, Dani, DeOrr and Erik Cross.

#BringPapawHome

P.S. I miss so many of you, my fellow WS'ers, who have been here for over a year, not giving up either!

 

[ocgrad]

Something else that bothers me....

The disappeared episode has SM stating rather emphatically that he has information that the family is aware of but he WILL NOT release that he thinks MC would commit suicide over, yet Klein mentions NOTHING about info he has found that worries him.

The way I take it is that whatever "evidence" SM found during the course of the investigation does not necessarily mean the same thing to Klein. Perhaps SM is only looking at one piece of information and Klein is seeing that plus other pieces. Kind of like how important having context is to correctly interpret something. I'm thinking of the term, the smeller is the feller, you know when speaking of farts. Probably not really clear what I'm getting at.

 

[Tripod]

BBM.
Absolutely #NeverGivingUp. I have family living with me temporarily so I have next to NO time to be on here, but trust me, that family knows all about this case, have watched the episodes with me, listened to my theories, new theories, different theories, etc. and I'm sure they will be just as happy as me the day his family and, really, everyone following gets some real answers.

A big thanks to those of you that help me stay caught up and answering the questions I have because of missing out.
My mind, heart and hopes are with Michael Chambers and his loved ones every single day, and his bracelet on my wrist several days a week. (I rotate between him, Dani, DeOrr and Erik Cross.

#BringPapawHome

P.S. I miss so many of you, my fellow WS'ers, who have been here for over a year, not giving up either!

And thank you, MM, for being such a stalwart supporter and valuable poster for Papaw!

 

[Tripod]

I pretty much agree with everything you've said, imho. However, I am beginning to think the d.l. was taken to perpetrate the myth that MC committed suicide. Who would know a firefighter takes his d.l. to later be identified should he/she expire in a fire or commits suicide and later needs to be identified? Those who perpetrated MC's murder, that's who. And that is exactly what this was. The murder of a sweet and gentle giant...... for money.

Those who committed, conspired and in any way know of what really happened to MC should be looking over their shoulders. There were so many mistakes made here. More than they know.

I am beginning to hear the faint tick tock of the clock that will ultimely put these murderers in jail and tried for murder in the 1st degree. ALL of them.

I hate being played for a fool. I hope others feel the same way.

I had a lot of trouble seeing MC's disappearance to be all about money, for a long time. Now that we know more about that, that there was more money available ( even though the pension and probably DROP are not exactly "liquid" assets), that changed things for me. The affairs saddened me, but when you add the money and behavior to it..

I'll remain open to some of my earlier thoughts and always open to changing my mind. I still am not sure which I believe more: that MC died after an altercation with someone who stopped in to talk to him or confront him ( ex: someone who didn't want his spouse to find out about an affair with BC), or if this was indeed a planned-in-advance happening. I do still toss around a walk-away scenario or suicide, but until and unless we hear much more pointing towards that, those theories are in the background.

I keep waiting to hear if there are going to be any more searches for MC. Seems that since there has been no word of another search in and around the water at the 2 mile bridge, that tells me the first search there was pretty thorough and authorities believe there's nothing to be found there. I realize investigators and family need clues that point somewhere in order to initiate a search, and that's just terribly sad there seem to be none

 

[ocgrad]

I had a lot of trouble seeing MC's disappearance to be all about money, for a long time. Now that we know more about that, that there was more money available ( even though the pension and probably DROP are not exactly "liquid" assets), that changed things for me. The affairs saddened me, but when you add the money and behavior to it..

I'll remain open to some of my earlier thoughts and always open to changing my mind. I still am not sure which I believe more: that MC died after an altercation with someone who stopped in to talk to him or confront him ( ex: someone who didn't want his spouse to find out about an affair with BC), or if this was indeed a planned-in-advance happening. I do still toss around a walk-away scenario or suicide, but until and unless we hear much more pointing towards that, those theories are in the background.

I keep waiting to hear if there are going to be any more searches for MC. Seems that since there has been no word of another search in and around the water at the 2 mile bridge, that tells me the first search there was pretty thorough and authorities believe there's nothing to be found there. I realize investigators and family need clues that point somewhere in order to initiate a search, and that's just terribly sad there seem to be none

I'm not sure if the DROP is or isn't liquid. The way it is set up, it can be taken in one lump sum. But with the shortfall in the city of Dallas management of the account and restructure I am not sure if that option is available currently. I have felt she may have been anxious to change the way the account was set up, in monthly or bi-annual or lump sum distribution and that was part of the urgency to have him declared dead. But not sure if she did get anything different and may just be taking monthly payments. It is interesting that just when he was to begin taking distributions he disappeared.
Then there is the box in the shop. I wonder if there was a safe in shop and the box was in it?
Maybe there have been other searches, in other places and we just have not heard. I hope so. But I believe they will have to uncover cellular, internet and financial records in order to find the right location to search or to be led to his body. I am counting on those mistakes.

 

[Pipsissiway_Potts]

Something else that bothers me....

The disappeared episode has SM stating rather emphatically that he has information that the family is aware of but he WILL NOT release that he thinks MC would commit suicide over, yet Klein mentions NOTHING about info he has found that worries him.

SM said there were "some things that had happened that would cause MC to commit suicide" but they were unable to disclose it at this time because it was an ongoing investigation. Maybe just me, but very odd wording. It could be anything from MC committing a heinous crime (which I DO NOT believe) or his wife or a member of his immediate family, that would bring shame and prison time. It seems improbable that his wife's infidelities alone would CAUSE him to commit suicide.

 

[Pipsissiway_Potts]

I had a lot of trouble seeing MC's disappearance to be all about money, for a long time. Now that we know more about that, that there was more money available ( even though the pension and probably DROP are not exactly "liquid" assets), that changed things for me. The affairs saddened me, but when you add the money and behavior to it..

I'll remain open to some of my earlier thoughts and always open to changing my mind. I still am not sure which I believe more: that MC died after an altercation with someone who stopped in to talk to him or confront him ( ex: someone who didn't want his spouse to find out about an affair with BC), or if this was indeed a planned-in-advance happening. I do still toss around a walk-away scenario or suicide, but until and unless we hear much more pointing towards that, those theories are in the background.

I keep waiting to hear if there are going to be any more searches for MC. Seems that since there has been no word of another search in and around the water at the 2 mile bridge, that tells me the first search there was pretty thorough and authorities believe there's nothing to be found there. I realize investigators and family need clues that point somewhere in order to initiate a search, and that's just terribly sad there seem to be none

I may be remembering this incorrectly, but I seem to recall missing people who had been searched for, and extensively, and still turning up within the search grid weeks, months and years later. As extensive as the search in the lake might've been, it would not surprise me much if his body was found there sometime down the road. He may have been weighted down. His body may be caught under debris. Does anyone know how much debris and trash is in the lake? I'm sure that's already been covered somewhere up thread, so my apologies in advance. Still, my gut feeling is that he is NOT in the lake, but his phone is.

As far as the slow speed the phone traveled...I'd like to hear more about the science behind how the phone expert determined this. The DISAPPEARED episode said the speed was not determined by the pings of the cell towers. So how was it done?

 

[flute4peace]

I may be remembering this incorrectly, but I seem to recall missing people who had been searched for, and extensively, and still turning up within the search grid weeks, months and years later. As extensive as the search in the lake might've been, it would not surprise me much if his body was found there sometime down the road. He may have been weighted down. His body may be caught under debris. Does anyone know how much debris and trash is in the lake? I'm sure that's already been covered somewhere up thread, so my apologies in advance. Still, my gut feeling is that he is NOT in the lake, but his phone is.

As far as the slow speed the phone traveled...I'd like to hear more about the science behind how the phone expert determined this. The DISAPPEARED episode said the speed was not determined by the pings of the cell towers. So how was it done?

I wouldn't be surprised if he's in the lake. In fact I would be surprised if he's not.

 

[ocgrad]

I may be remembering this incorrectly, but I seem to recall missing people who had been searched for, and extensively, and still turning up within the search grid weeks, months and years later. As extensive as the search in the lake might've been, it would not surprise me much if his body was found there sometime down the road. He may have been weighted down. His body may be caught under debris. Does anyone know how much debris and trash is in the lake? I'm sure that's already been covered somewhere up thread, so my apologies in advance. Still, my gut feeling is that he is NOT in the lake, but his phone is.

As far as the slow speed the phone traveled...I'd like to hear more about the science behind how the phone expert determined this. The DISAPPEARED episode said the speed was not determined by the pings of the cell towers. So how was it done?

When the sheriff said they used data transmission with the towers instead of pings, I think what he meant by pings is how LE dispatch is able to send a signal out to ping your phone and their system can see when it returns based on speed and then sending that signal off other towers they can narrow down your location. Compared to using a tower dump and seeing the nearly constant transmission back and forth from your phone to towers on its own over several hours and coming up with a type of route.
I imagine there is a special program the expert uses which takes that data and plots it onto a map. The thing I wonder is if the program can calibrate to show phone travel off road or if it is normal for it to take the phone location to the nearest road. And of course I wonder how many towers they used and how accurate. I wonder if HC was able to use all towers in their area to get pings that night. We know he said it only pinged off 2 towers but maybe there were more that they couldn't use somehow at that time but which had data transmissions from his phone that showed up in tower dumps.
Then there are the somewhat conflicting things he said. The first press conference he said they were not able to ping his phone. A reporter asked, you couldn't ping or you didn't get anything? He replied we got a couple of locations. In other statements he said his phone pinged in the middle of the bridge. In other statements he said his phone went across the bridge. In other statements he said he pinged his phone that night and it was off or dead, but they got his last location at the bridge.
My gut feeling is his body is not in the lake nor is his phone. I think Klein is on to something when he said he feels they took his body up in the hills far away from there. I don't think they would even risk disposing of his phone in that area.