Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #4

[margarita25]

Oh, excellent point..... making his disappearance and the ruse of having to look for the entire family.... him being at work delaying the apparent time of the crime by 24 hours.

So he either didnt know or forgot about the Ob appointment

I sure hope LE got to his computer to look at searches

I wonder if he ever tried to convince her to terminate?

 

[Shekkiec]

I think you are right about the neighbors. They seem thoroughly shaken and comment very specifically about his behavior being at odds with the situation

So where did he stay Monday night?

The friends that were interviewed said he stayed with them and they regretted believing him

 

[Herat]

This is creepy. Does anyone know if this is standard?

I noticed that one of SW's friends posted on SM that no one should be talking to the media. She seemed to be worried about compromising the investigation.

After that daft DNA requests by the defense's expert, I would expect all sorts of defense weasels to come out of the woodwork for the fame of being associated with this notorious case.

It is prudent for the family, friends, and colleagues to avoid giving them any ammo to further confabulate and entangle the trial.

 

[CFlo]

Yeah, agree. I mostly looked at his eyes and the fact that they weren’t swollen like he was crying or baggy like he wasn’t sleeping.

Until his booking photo which suddenly does show dark circles under the cold eyes.

 

[PeekingDuck]

This whole thing makes me so sad.

I was friends with LJ (Jesse Matthews) and never in my mind did I ever believe he would do harm to people.

Perhaps this is the way CW turned out. Something just living and boiling inside until boom.

 

[Eclipse]

Until his booking photo which suddenly does show dark circles under the cold eyes.

I agree with others also who say he looks angry in that photo. I actually thought he looked mean and cold when I saw it.

 

[Tiny]

Personally, I think the two little ones were killed during the weekend. I think he definitely worked at Anadarko until Wednesday. If he accessed work during the weekend then the security cameras would have captured him or if he swiped his card. Then Shanann was murdered perhaps during that period of 2am until he left work. I have followed many cases although this is my sixth or so via WS. I can’t get over those two little ones with their cheeky smiles. Shanann looks a sweet girl someone you would want to be friends with. This case breaks my heart.

 

[Deleted member 117120]

Until his booking photo which suddenly does show dark circles under the cold eyes.

To me there is a stark contrast in his face complexion between the interview on camera and the arrest hearing. He went from having flushed cheeks to being ashen. He realized he was caught.

 

[margarita25]

This whole thing makes me so sad.

I was friends with LJ (Jesse Matthews) and never in my mind did I ever believe he would do harm to people.

Perhaps this is the way CW turned out. Something just living and boiling inside until boom.

As we would say on the old forum,
:gasp:

You knew JLM???!!!
@FindHG

(Looking for GASP emoji, need to figure that out in the new forum anyway)

 

[Shekkiec]

The police were immediately concerned and that had to be bc of NU. He stated the police told him to stay home there was nothing he could do even though he wanted to go look. . With the statement from her and the locks on the door revealing no door activity only garage at 5 am they knew no way she “disappeared into thin air”. Once doing a neighborhood questioning which is standard I’m sure the neighbor said I saw him leave loading things in truck and showed footage . They definitely would follow up his “alibi” by contacting work and asking for access to cameras to see his arrival time . He had unexplained times to now account for as added pressure plus no k9 scent lead except in truck . The FBI doesn’t arrive that soon unless they know. I bet that he stayed at his friends bc police wanted him away from the investigation scene and he had to comply or look guilty. I wouldn’t sleep either you know they are coming any moment

 

[SuperTmo]

It wasn't the shirt exactly, it was his response to the question about his shirt. He immediately relaxed, became open, showing shirt off. If you were in middle of interview about missing family, could/would you turn it off to talk about your t-,shirt? Or be taken aback from someone asking you this when your family was in danger? With K9 unit tracking for them? That is what I noticed, not anything about the shirt per say

You know... I’m not entirely sure. I honestly think that in the middle of a highly stressful situation, if someone asked me about something insignificant I could see myself relaxing for a moment, or even having a bit of levity. But you are looking at it from how you’d exact an innocent person to react.

I mean... his family wasn’t missing. He knew exactly where they were. He didn’t care if he had a house full of cop dogs, they weren’t going to find anything. He wasn’t concerned because they weren’t in danger. In his mind, HE was the one in danger. What did bother him was being questioned about the last time he saw his wife and what happened. So being asked about his shirt was obviously a relief.

I guess I don’t see his response to his shirt as a big because I knew watching the interview the first time that he killed them. Watching him and expecting to see him react like an innocent person would is futile; we know he isn’t innocent. He reacted to that question exactly how someone who would rather talk about anything but his missing family would. But even then I don’t know that I would be shocked by an innocent person reacting that way. It’s ok to have a moment or two of distraction.

 

[Deleted member 117120]

Personally, I think the two little ones were killed during the weekend. I think he definitely worked at Anadarko until Wednesday. If he accessed work during the weekend then the security cameras would have captured him or if he swiped his card. Then Shanann was murdered perhaps during that period of 2am until he left work. I have followed many cases although this is my sixth or so via WS. I can’t get over those two little ones with their cheeky smiles. Shanann looks a sweet girl someone you would want to be friends with. This case breaks my heart.

It was confirmed that CW did take the little girls to a birthday party on the Sunday.

 

[SuperTmo]

WHOA - You know what stands out to me:

"It was real quick"

I don't know what the context was, it might have been the LE response was quick but this phrase just chilled me to the bone

Clearly, he had issues with SW. I'm thinking finances had little do with this indefensible familicide. He had to kill HER and the kids were HER (especially Celeste). I have to think he regrets having to kill Bella the most....

I think you are right about not wanting to kill Bella. He saw himself in her. She was probably the only one wanted. The two girls were 4 and 3, but do we know birthdays? Were they going on 5 and just turned 3? Or were they like 12 months apart? I wonder if he wanted CeCe.

I have a cousin with a wife who wanted kids close together and he did not (but not enough to wear a condom apparently). He actually had to go to therapy for awhile because he struggled with resenting the youngest because having kids so close together was very hard! He thankfully came to see how big of a donkey he was being and now has a lovely relationship with both kids.

I wonder how common something like that is, if he struggled with that, and if he had trouble bonding with CeCe because it.

 

[Tiny]

It was confirmed that CW did take the little girls to a birthday party on the Sunday.

I meant after the party.

 

[margarita25]

Could be a girlfriend they know about too.

Hmmmm....

If he had one, do we we even know she is safe?

I would think so, IF say he was really wanting to be with her...

Who knows. All this is so mind blowing. It’s extra disturbing when you’re closeby.
(ETA: Actually I take that back, I’m sure you guys are equally disturbed.)

(ETA: one never knows here what he/she might be discussing from one day to the next. Can’t even imagine sometimes the things we end up talking about...for example “family annihilators” and dna extraction/crude oil on kids’ bodies for goodness sakes...)

 

[Tricia]

Please understand KALI no one is suggesting the Shanann and her children deserved anything bad to happen to them or that any reason the killer gives for his actions will somehow make him seem less horrid. Not at all.

However, it is imperative we find out the motivation. Why? We need to know how these monsters think, what happened to them in their lives that could have caused them to turn into the horrid beasts they have become.

To not learn anything about the perp, in this case, would be a disservice to everyone. We need to know how this monster was created so we can somehow stop creating them in the future. Again, not blaming the parents or saying he didn't get enough hugs. Not at all. We just need to understand.

Really? How does this matter at all?
This man murdered his loving little children.
There is no excuse.
He is a sick, piece of ....
Nothing his wife or children ever did, warrants what he did to them. PERIOD.

 

[margarita25]

This is an interesting point

With his new buff body and new attention to grooming, he would be attracting both male and female attention....

Hmmmmmmmm....now you really got me thinking...

ETA: There is something about the “all females” that is interesting to me. Again, interested to research gender victim stats in other FA homicides.

 

[margarita25]

Somewhat O/T, do we know if CW owned any firearms or is interested in shooting? I’m asking for a very specific reason. It’s a shot in the dark of course, and likely unrelated as totally different types of crimes, but please keep in mind Weld County includes my pet case, NOCO (Northern Colorado Serial Shooter). Sorry but any nutjob in the area is going to get a flag, I t’s just the way it is. And he is right in the hotspot area imo. Link for case reference in progress.
Weld Co LE is on the NOCO Task Force, iirc..Yeah I’m not even going to the NOCO threads, I doubt it’s CW. Likely a stretch, unless we find evidence of guns...and even then...again point is, Inwinder if this is just a o e time isolated incidence of violence in his past.

Another question for my research, have any FAs participated in any other types of violent random crimes? I recall from the WIRED UK article they are generally not known to LE.

Did we ever get a final answer on previous DV calls to the house?

 

[no one]

This case has drawn me in too and I have been reading all of your insights and thoughts with interest. I thought I would add a few of my own.

I see a lot posting about her MSM business, Thrive, and wanted to give some input of my observations of MSM businesses as I have been in several (never Thrive, but the premise is all the same), even making it to the top leadership level in one of them. So, I thought I could give you some first hand knowledge/opinion of them. They appeal to people with the idea of owning your own business, work for yourself, set your own hours. They make it sound easy to get rich! They parade out the few that have "made it" and make all those who join believe they can too! While there are older people (mostly women) that join, it is mostly younger women. A big draw is to tell women they can quit their jobs and be with their children because the MSM company will allow you to work as little or as much as you want and any hours you want. This appeals to young women with small children. Then they dangle these carrots of free trips to earn, free product to earn, and sometimes other kinds of prizes. I once unexpectedly won an xBox by being in a drawing because of an order I had submitted. It wasn't even on my mind to win it, as I only submitted one order, which gave me one chance. Each order gave you a chance in the drawing. I didn't care about it, so was really surprised when my name was drawn. My husband appreciated it, lol! By the way, you get a 1099 that includes any of these prizes or rewards, including trips earned. So, those trips she earned had to be claimed on their taxes. And, depending on what she actually earned, the trips may not have been totally free. She may have still had airfare expenses, along with spending money. The trips probably included lodging and some meals......but it doesn't mean it didn't cost her any money to go on them.

People can make money in these companies, but in reality the only ones that really make any substantial money are the ones who get in early and are able to build a team to make money off. I was able to get into one of them at the ground floor level and because of that I quickly added people to my team and very quickly rose to a top level. It is a real ego booster and to be honest, it is quite a confidence booster. I know it was for me and I have seen others "come out of their shell". It was the first time I was ever in the spotlight and felt special and able to even get in front of people and give a speech. This is very appealing to women to be looked up to as "leaders", esp. when you have never lived that life before. You feel like SOMEBODY! While husbands come on board on the free trips and some even get drug to conventions, it is more of a separate life and you form many friendships all over the country.

Conventions are your "girl time" and while I see a lot of people mention that SW was away "at work" in Arizona, I can tell you it isn't "like work". Conventions are fun cheerleader events! You pay to attend them....usually $200-$300, plus hotel expense and food and spending money. There is usually a company store where I saw women load up carts with hundreds of pricey items! It is easy to get caught up in it all! It can easily cost $1000 to attend and then more if you are a "heavy shopper"! These conventions are the culmination of the end of the sales season and the beginning of another. It is a time to meet up with your friends from all over the country....sometimes it might be the only time you see some of them. While there are "classes", the main sessions are full of thousands of women whooping it up, dancing, loud music, even beach ball hitting. There are guest speakers (some can be boring....but, for the most part they are fun and inspiring). You always have your phone to play with if they are boring, lol! Thru out the general session, the upcoming new season products are introduced in a fun, exciting manner and everyone screams and loves, loves, loves it all and can't wait to get their hands on them! And the company GIVES some of it to each one there! Of course we actually paid for them with our convention registration....nothing is really free! The excitement level is indescribable. There is such energy in the room with thousands of cheering women and all the loud rock music and cheerleading on stage. Believe me, it is not like "work". It is the reward for your work! And the purpose is also to get you pumped up to go back home and be ready to promote the new catalog. These conventions are usually held in July or August to get you pumped up for the upcoming holiday season....the biggest selling months of the whole year!

Also, at these conventions they will spotlight and reward top leaders.....special rewards for Top Seller of the year, Top Recruiter, etc. Some can be very nice rewards. And of course you are told that ANYONE can do what these leaders have done....YOU can do it! Those carrots are dangled in front of you and some work really hard trying to get them, but in reality very few really end up making the big bucks. My first MSM company was 25 years old and I was clueless. It was a very popular company and I was having fun, but really had no clue about how they really work. My first Convention I was rewarded with all kinds of stuff for making Sales Achiever, which was $20,000 in sales. I was clueless that I had even accomplished something worthy of recognition and rewards. So, it was a nice surprise. I made 25% commission, so that was $5000 commission in my first year. Figuring that monthly, I made $416.67 a month. And believe me, that was a lot of selling/parties/submitting parties, etc. But, wait! Out of that $416.67 a month, I had to purchase catalogs, order forms, hostess gifts, and other business materials.....including product to show potential customers, at my 25% discount, of course. So, as you can see.....I wasn't getting rich. Even with $20,000 in sales, it was a hobby. And I quickly realized that their top leaders were already in place after 25 years and the company was so saturated that there was really no chance to reach that level any more. And when that company's sales plummeted, many of those leaders who had based their lifestyles on those top commissions found themselves in a position that they could not continue in that same lifestyle.

So, I learned from my first MSM company that the only way to have the success of the leaders they marched across the stage was to get in a business at the ground floor level. I finally did it and reached the lower level of the top tier within two years! I had 300 people under me.....what SW would have referred to as "her people". Not all husbands are supportive, even if you are making money. Mine wasn't.....neither were my grown kids.....they just saw it as a hobby. I think that contributed to my desire to prove them wrong! My husband wasn't fond of me going to these conventions but I didn't let him stop me. He never really acknowledged my success, even tho he still enjoys that XBox I won! So, my MSM business gave me something I needed.....something that made me feel important. I didn't feel very important at home. Not saying that was SW's case, but I can tell you it would definitely be an ego booster and any woman needs that.

While I did start making some money, even with 300 people on my team, the most I ever made was $2000-$2500 a month in the 3 months preceding Christmas. The rest of the year is much harder. And most of that money I made was commissions from my down line. But, to get that commission from my downline, I had required sales to meet personally and team wise. If we didn't hit our sales, I would not get commission from my team. So, there were months that I bought inventory myself to meet those quotas. But, I was smart about it. I would literally sit and figure up what my commission would be and see if it made sense to spend the money. For example, if I had to spend $500 out of my own pocket but it would result in me making $1000 more in commissions, then I would do it. I would make $500 plus have the inventory to sell. Eventually the business/sales started going down to the point I decided it was no longer worth it to me to spend that money and as a result I lost my team and title.....basically gave them up. I knew I was in it to make money and had told myself that once I was no longer making money, I was done. I would not keep pumping money into it to hang onto a title to feed my ego. But I am older...actually retired. I had more life experience to tell me it was time to give it up. I also think the younger you are there is more of a tendency to "succeed" even if it was actually costing you. Some of it is about appearances. There are quotas to meet to keep your title and team and I can tell you that many will buy inventory each month to meet those quotas. Like I said, it is as much about your ego as the money....maybe even more at times. I had to mentally get to the point that it was ok with me to give it all up.....that is a hard thing to do. Because of my previous MSM experiences, I knew how the game was played and was smart enough to know when it was time to give up on the "dream". But, unfortunately, many first timers don't see all the pitfalls before it is too late. I am actually still with the company but have no desires left to be in leadership ever again.

Do I think the MSM company could have contributed to stress in CW/SW's lives? From my experiences, I do. One of my friends that I met thru my first MSM company ended up going to prison for a couple of years for embezzling a half a million $$$$ from her employer while she was with the MSM company. I was in shock! Never saw that coming! She lived in another state and we met thru the MSM company and became friends and roomed together at Conventions until she started going up the ladder and was hanging with the leaders more. The Conventions were the only times we saw each other in person. And eventually we weren't really hanging with each other or communicating much once she went into leadership. Do I think her time with that MSM company contributed to her crime? I do! At the conventions I saw her spend money like water in the company store.....price tags didn't seem to matter, while I was whipping out my calculator to add up my purchases to make sure I didn't overspend. If she saw something she liked/wanted, it went into her cart! I remember thinking to myself that her husband must have a very good job! Her home was FILLED with our products, which were a home decorating product....and not cheap! It could cost $100 easily for one of our products.....even more if you decked it out! And I would see pictures of her home and it was filled with them! I had plenty myself....but not like her! I just thought they must have a lot of money! But, I did take notice of that and the clothing, jewelry, etc. that seems to go along with "looking the part". I was knocked over when a mutual friend called and told me the news of her crime! We were both in shock and I followed it online, so I know it was true. We are still friends/acquaintances today, but she never told me why. But me and the other friend always felt like the MSM business contributed to it. I theorize that she got in over her head with credit cards trying to keep her place in the company and keeping up with all of the other leaders and it lead to her taking the money to pay credit card debt.....maybe at first it wasn't much and she thought she would pay it back, but it snowballed and she realized it wasn't getting caught and it got easier. But it eventually caught up with her during an audit. Even tho she committed a crime, I did find myself feeling sad for her, as I think she just got caught up in something that feeds our egos. So, from that experience, I do think the MSM company could have contributed to whatever was going on in this household. I have some other thoughts, too, that are not about the MSM company and will share those thoughts in a separate thread. I just wanted to give you an inside look at the MSM business, since it is being discussed. I honestly could see it becoming part of the defense. This is such a horrible crime! Did he snap? Or was this the person he always was? I just don't know! It could be a lot of things compiling.....or maybe he was just an evil person, but I didn't see that in the videos I watched of him with the kids. It just breaks my heart.

 

[margarita25]

Do I recall some mention of some “military” post content on SM (twitter?)? Or did I dream this? Tia.