CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #9

[SuperTmo]

Odd. Even stranger IMO is that they couldn't pay this and apparently didn't care, but they came up with airfare for 4 to NC which would have paid that and some left over...

Right. I’ve been saying all along that it isn’t a lack of money on their part that kept them from paying the HOA bill. They simply didn’t do it. It doesn’t mean they are broke or poor, they just didn’t do it.

Maybe they knew they would be divorcing back when they were served and decided to not worry about it.

 

[NuttMegg]

Like I said, I don't feel like that would have been an immediate response. The first thought would be to kick his behind or to beg him to stay.

So she's tired, she's a lot smaller, she's preggers, and a big muscled guy like CW would be vulnerable to some evil plan she had worked out...? The only way that would work is if she was using a weapon on him, bodily assault is nearly always a losing situation for women on men. Until I learn more, I think he started screaming at her for being late because a few days with the kids was excruciating for him, she screamed back that she knew he was fooling around, he loses it, kills her, then kills the kids who had woken up. But I think it was premeditated in the aspect that he had researched a "good" disposal site just in case, and that he was stymied by the light of day coming on before he had a chance to put the heavy body of his wife in the tank. I should just go away for a few days from the thread...I don't think I will change my mind at all, and in fact wish I could be on the jury!

 

[cattlekate]

Theoretically, CW could have forged SW's signature and was hiding the lawsuit from her. But they were both in NC at the time, from what I understand. Don't know why he would do that.

I don't think the HOA's lawyer would forge their signatures. Not over a $1,500 suit.

WHAT? SW was in NC on June 30? Then she couldn’t have signed a process server’s summons! This is becoming curiouser! Holy cow.

 

[gitana1]

Ok so this is not going to be popular.
I’m just curious. Are you SO sure that you know how this happened that you would bet everything you own or your child’s life on this assumption. I’m not “supporting” CW or “biased” against SW but I also would NEVER bet my child’s life on the belief that it happened one way or another at this stage of the investigation. This is where I am coming from. I Find it difficult to believe that any human can kill another human. So yes it is difficult for me to believe a mother would kill her own child but it has happened. Look it up.

Women kill their kids daily in the world.

How many of them are throttled to death by a spouse who catches them in the act, doesn't try to save them, doesn't call 911, who then calmly disposes of everyone's bodies, leads LE on a wild goose chase trying to track them down, coolly lies and conceals what happened in interviews with the media where he is dry eyed and well rested?

A mother capable of killing her kids is not the issue. The behavior, statements, lies and demeanor of their father afterward, is.

 

[PommyMommy]

BBM.
And don't people's bowels release when they die? That's what I've always heard.

Objective signs noted in strangulation victims include involuntary urination and defecation. Miscarriages have been anecdotally reported occurring hours to days later.
http://www.ncdsv.org/images/strangulation_article.pdf

 

[cottonweaver]

Unless she was beginning a murder-suicide situation and he stopped her by killing her.

 

[ethoma12002]

We don't know he killed them. We know he killed her and the unborn baby.

True

 

[CARIIS]

she is alone with the children. He may have even threatened to take them from her because of her chronic illness or expose her facade. She was tired, pregnant, vulnerable in her thought process, and the threat of being left could have been too much. Women are just as capable of committing crimes in the heat of the moment as a man.

that is quite a list of stressors -- through in exhaustion , an affair , and being alone ...........

 

[Layla123]

I couldn't figure out why he said that either, unless he was worried someone had heard the noise.

I think he said it to provide the reason for Shanann taking the girls and disappearing when he still believed he’d hidden the bodies where they’d never be found.

 

[CFlo]

How do we know that? and Why were some posts deleted and not others? Her account on FB is now a legacy account and was soon after she was found. According to Facebook legacy rules...

Your legacy contact can't:

• Log into your account.
• Remove or change past posts, photos and other things shared on your timeline.
• Read your messages.
• Remove any of your friends or make new friend requests.
• Add a new legacy contact to your account.

What is a legacy contact and what can they do? | Facebook Help Center | Facebook

P.S. this is actually very outdated FB info, take it fwiw.
I know because prior to reading about his confession, and taking a break from Mollie’s case, I went right to SW FB. Why? Because I also had mutual friends that live in NC posting the heck that she was missing. WS taught me over the last decade to hey, just look it up, so I did. FB “friends” in NC were tagging her, so I saw it. I had no preconceived notions when I went there the first time,
I do take screenshots now, I’ve learned and I won’t get into how or why here over the last 18 months other then to say SM and the Internet.... or moreso the people hiding behind their screens, can be evil. EVIL.
I went back to what I saved on 8/14, and going back wards. This is what I had saved, when she was still missing and the literal minutes before my news alert popped up that CW made his confession.
Actually, I think ss might be against WS TOS, so I’ll type out:
“IMAGINE. Meeting someone who wanted learn your past not to punish you, but to understand how you needed to be loved.”

I’ll leave it at that until trial where other posts come to light based on prosecution subpoena.

 

[vaporlass]

Maybe SW's parents paid for the trip.

Her father had been taking care of the children for a week while they were in California on a Thrive trip. There are/were videos and posts during this time. When they returned they went back to NC with her Dad, so he could have paid for it. Not sure if CW went that first week or some other week during her 6 week stay???
Her mother’s friends at beauty shop said they were definitely separating ... there’s a video of woman who works with her mother stating this.
But, they had to pay 50% of California (any) business trip - per Thrive agreement, I read.
Plus, trip to Arizona and all those other trips that they certainly couldn’t afford.
This is a “fake it until you make it” Thrive theme, even if it puts you into debt, it will be worth it in a few months ... but, it wasn’t worth it, and I think it played a part in the murders.

 

[cottonweaver]

Objective signs noted in strangulation victims include involuntary urination and defecation. Miscarriages have been anecdotally reported occurring hours to days later.
http://www.ncdsv.org/images/strangulation_article.pdf

Thanks for posting

"Focusing on the visible signs of strangulation, we found that police officers reported no visible injuries in 62 percent of the cases. "

This chimes with UK research stats and with what I posted several times - as simple slide links on timings, signs & comparative pressures:
Brain death will occur in 4 to 5 minutes,

Only eleven pounds of pressure placed on both carotid arteries for ten seconds is necessary to cause unconsciousness.( How-ever, if pressure is released immediately, consciousness will be regained within ten seconds.) To completely close off the trachea, three times as much pressure (33 lbs.) is required

 

[Deleted member 172065]

I think he became sexually obsessed with the mistress. He obsessed about her all day and about the “objects” that were in the way (his family). He decided to remove them so that he could fulfill his desire and obsession. He killed the girls and waited for SW to come home so he could get her out of the way and go see the mistress, but she was late and really screwed up his plans. He thought he would go and tell his mistress that SW left and it was over.

If it was simply a case of him “snapping” I think he would have shown more emotion in the courtroom. He would have had some realization of what he had done and broken down.

His family members were simply obstructive objects to him. He removed them in the simplest way possible. He had thought about it for weeks or months... IMO

Appears that way to me...

 

[Bill Carson]

WHAT? SW was in NC on June 30? Then she couldn’t have signed a process server’s summons! This is becoming curiouser! Holy cow.

There was no process server. They signed waivers, which means that the Watts were waiving their right to be served with the lawsuit papers.

They could sign the waivers from anywhere and return them to the HOA's lawyer.

 

[NuttMegg]

And what we need to ask is how a man who is passionate enough to lose control and commit a homicide due to love and grief, how would that same man:
a) React immediately after when it comes to whetherhe calls 911 for help or rushes to the lawn screaming.
b) Treat the bodies of his dead children (again, call police? Look for signs of life? Scream for help? Dispose of them and how?)
c) Be able to resume normal activities hours later like going to work.
d) Discuss with LE what happened (either by telling the truth or lying)
e) Interact with neighbors and friends
f) Interact with the media
g) Discuss his murdered children (by calmly and with a composed, stoic face and dry eyes, state and spell their names and blithely discuss not knowing where they are, or by gnashing his teeth, crying, screaming nor trying to harm himself?)

For a man passionate and fierce enough in his love for his children and the pain of their deaths that he throttled their killer to death, he calmed down and got over it incredibly quickly.

When he said, and repeated "This has GOT to STOP", I think that was an unconscious repetition of what he probably routinely said to his family.....and he did make it stop.

 

[mamselleblinky]

I can only respond based on what isn’t a similar experience but it’s all I have ...
My granddaughter whom I was watching one day - was bit by our dog (whom I loved dearly)
I grabbed her up, screamed at the dog, tried to staunch the flow, wished to God I didn’t have to go to emergency room or call anyone - but knew I had to get her there ASAP.
If she had been killed, would I have taken her and thrown her out somewhere? Tell them she was kidnapped or had wandered off?

Oh wow, I knew she posted the picture but I never considered she set the doll up in that pose. I thought she was out of town and CW sent that pic to her that weekend.
I do think hormonally she could have felt crazy, been crazy... she was in first trimester and with lupus ... her mind could have really been thinking crazy thoughts.
I can even understand strangling her because she killed my children - I’d definitely kill or try to kill someone who hurt my kids - no question.
It’s his response - actions afterwards that I can’t understand no matter how far I reach.

CW and the children set up the doll while SW was out of town. It's in the comments and the post.

 

[FlossyMay]

So she's tired, she's a lot smaller, she's preggers, and a big muscled guy like CW would be vulnerable to some evil plan she had worked out...? The only way that would work is if she was using a weapon on him, bodily assault is nearly always a losing situation for women on men. Until I learn more, I think he started screaming at her for being late because a few days with the kids was excruciating for him, she screamed back that she knew he was fooling around, he loses it, kills her, then kills the kids who had woken up. But I think it was premeditated in the aspect that he had researched a "good" disposal site just in case, and that he was stymied by the light of day coming on before he had a chance to put the heavy body of his wife in the tank. I should just go away for a few days from the thread...I don't think I will change my mind at all, and in fact wish I could be on the jury!

I'm not saying that's what happened. I'm saying IF he told her he was leaving her for another woman, her first response would probably not be to murder her children.

 

[Cora]

But if we take him at his word the exact same thing is true, no? She has no recorded history of DV either.

It is interesting to note, that as far as we know at this time, this monster apparently did NOT have any history of DV?

Pretty amazing for a child killer no?

Maybe he was happy playing the role of the doting father and husband for a while. He probably got a narcissistic charge from that image for a bit. Still his family was just an accessory.

Once he slimmed down and started to get some attention from the ladies for the first time in his life, he lost interest in the family accessories. Maybe he desired the bachelor role. However, he couldn’t ruin his image of “family man”! No way. The narcissistic wound would be too great! It would be better if they just “left”.

IMO

 

[ethoma12002]

In looking at her social media, I see no posts on Instagram since Aug. 1 and no posts on her Facebook since Aug. 9 (doll photo). She was tagged in a photo in Arizona. I find that odd for someone who lived her life on social media. Unless those posts were removed, it appears there was no activity post wise since Aug. 9. IMO, this could be a small sign that she was mentally struggling. If someone knows of posts she made after Aug. 9, please let me know.

Yeah, I mentioned that yesterday -its strange. Possibly they were deleted afterwards.

 

[Savmom]

CW fixation on the baby monitors is because I believe he watched SW discover the kids were dead on them. Then he ambushed her. moo

This is exactly what my husband and I think, which explains why there is some element of truth to his statement about the monitors and the precious angel being blue (gosh I hate typing that ).

He already knew she was blue -- I doubt it was perfectly clear on the monitor.

However the scenario played out, we think SW went in to check on them & when she saw her babies lying there lifeless, she did what I have done in that situation...grab the child/person & shake her to get a reaction, which he was calmly viewing in the monitor and is SIMILAR to strangling so that image is fixed firmly in his mind as an explanation to what happened (sounds crazy when I think about it now but it was an automatic reaction...and obviously the child I was shaking had not been murdered, just choking on a small piece of candy).

Then he went in and strangled SW while she was distracted

All MOO of course