FL - Multiple Fatalities at Mass Shooting at Madden Gaming Tournament, Jacksonville, 26 Aug 2018

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Is this the norm to live next door to your neighbors for years and never speak to them or know anything about them? I think it’s strange - really strange.

Neighbours speak of shock at apparent murder suicide of David Katz in Jacksonville shooting

Both said they rarely spoke to Katz’s parents and almost never to David. “There’s nothing remarkable about them,” said Mr Stearns, a special education teacher. “There’s not anything suspicious about them at all. We have lived here for a long time and we never talk to them.”

A neighbour, Jerry Knauer, said his wife last saw David Katz about two weeks ago. He described the father as “a really nice guy”. He added, “I feel sorry for him.” Speaking of the shooting, he said: “It truly is a tragedy”.

Mr Knauer was out when authorities started to search the house. They were escorted inside by ATF agents. Mr Knauer said he knew nothing about David Katz.
 
MelmothTheLost said:
I don't think any system can address the scale of mental and physical health problems that are how being thrown at the health services. Not in the US and not anywhere else. Sooner or later we will have to face up to that or risk bankrupting our economies and societies chasing the impossible.
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I believe one day the mental healthcare system can be greatly improved, MOO.
 
noodler2 said:
"Thanks, Second Amendment."
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Respectfully disagree.

This tragedy is not the fault of the Second Amendment.

The S.A. was put into place by the founders of this country to protect not only people's own homes, but to protect against the government itself should things go awry.
Considering what the trend is right now.....
 
SunVenus said:
Firstly, an armchair diagnosis is BS. We don't know that, and it is unfair to make such an allegation even if it merely your opinion.

Secondly, the term is "Aspergers". No "b" in the word. But actually it is properly called "Autism Spectrum Disorder". Not all on the spectrum are violent, in fact, we usually tend to avoid confrontations. What these alleged "Aspergers" folks that allegedly commit these shootings have in common are a poor mental health support system, easy access to firearms, and no framework for these shooters to be found and dealt with prior to the crime. Plenty of non-spectrum folks commit similar crimes every day.

Another factoid for you anti-gamers: Gamers come in all ages, genders, walks of life. Most of us are not "addicted" to gaming. Gaming is, for most of us, a perfectly enjoyable and healthy hobby. No one I know in my international gaming community has been violent. Most of us don't even own weapons of any sort.

I am 51, retired, mother to a grown son, have travelled around the world, have lived for extended periods of time in two countries. I cook, clean house and do all the normal things other people do. I have many hobbies, including collecting degrees and cross-stitch. I am also an avid gamer and have been since childhood (starting with D&D, which I play to this day), then I moved on to video games as they became available. I do not consider my gaming to be "addictive" or negative in any way. It's social and it's fun, and it is no way a waste of my time or money.

My point? Neither being on the Autism Spectrum nor being a gamer has caused me to be violent, or commit any crime.

People pointing towards the venue of this shooting as proof that gamers are violent or "need to get a life" are misguided and very narrow-minded. Today it happened to be another young man who decided to take out his aggression on a certain area of annoyance (in his mind). If that makes gamers "bad" and gaming contests are wrong-- as this occurred at a gaming tourny-- then the same knee-jerk reaction needs to be enforced (by the same "logic"- using the term loosely) by shutting down places of worship, shopping malls and country western concerts.

It's early on in the investigation. Why not let it play out? And for goodness sake people, let's all think before we type. Don't label an entire group of people that you don't even know. Let's watch and see and comment on facts, not insult others.
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In any domain humans categorize everything - it facilitates communication and understanding the world around us.

It is also descriptive. To ponder spectrum is a way to quickly describe comparisons of known things to others.

Most here I am sure know anyone who is mentioning some cluster of behavior and problems generally known as mental illness are not making a diagnosis. (Diagnosis is used to drive treatment - not be applied like a label.)


The term "gamers" has been used all the time on this thread. Same thing. Most know most gamers are not going to shoot up a place. in the same vein , most folks know that most people suffering an mental illness are going to shoot up a place.

There are for sure , more correlations between mental illness and violence but that is because mental illness impacts thought behavior impulse stuff etc. which is "behaving"

As it relates to the spectrum much has been learned about it . I think the reasons spectrum stuff is being mentioned is some cases is because more know what it may look like better.

One thing I have found fascinating is how often folks often go to the mental illness is not real -- they are just going for an insane case for the defense .

That IMO is from the 50-60s. Back then instead of going to jail they would go to an asylum. So people think they are avoiding jail. But the reality is there are no facilities OTHER than jail for them.

The only thing being adjudicated mentally ill means these days, is trial is not a good idea - and they go rot in jail like most. James Holmes Batman - is in max security facility. For life.

If anything validating that a perp is mentally ill might result in a more secure facility resulting in more safety for the public .

by reason of insanity is not the same thing it was back then -- but the initial poo pooing (minimizing the validity of mental illness) can make people IMO not want to learn more . So here we are again.

And again. People who want to eat healthier have to LEARN about it first! Same kinda thing.

Imo that is part of the core problem as it relates to mass shooters . Unless people give mental illness the seriousness it deserves these are gonna keep happening.

If someone minimizes the car stalling or something - they are not gonna seek help.

If this age group could be educated on what it truly looks like and is then possibly more might be flagged earlier - but then there is really no money to then do anything - so money is huge issue with mass shooters.

moo
 
CARIIS said:
In any domain humans categorize everything - it facilitates communication and understanding the world around us.

It is also descriptive. To ponder spectrum is a way to quickly describe comparisons of known things to others.

Most here I am sure know anyone who is mentioning some cluster of behavior and problems generally known as mental illness are not making a diagnosis. (Diagnosis is used to drive treatment - not be applied like a label.)


The term "gamers" has been used all the time on this thread. Same thing. Most know most gamers are going to shoot up a place. in the same vein , most folks know that most people suffering an mental illness are going to shoot up a place.

There are for sure , more correlations between mental illness and violence but that is because mental illness impacts thought behavior impulse stuff etc. which is "behaving"

As it relates to the spectrum much has been learned about it . I think the reasons spectrum stuff is being mentioned is some cases is because more know what it may look like better.

One thing I have found fascinating is how often folks often go to the mental illness is not real -- they are just going for an insane case for the defense .

That IMO is from the 50-60s. Back then instead of going to jail they would go to an asylum. So people think they are avoiding jail. But the reality is there are no facilities OTHER than jail for them.

The only thing being adjudicated mentally ill means these days, is trial is not a good idea - and they go rot in jail like most. James Holmes Batman - is in max security facility. For life.

If anything validating that a perp is mentally ill might result in a more secure facility resulting in more safety for the public .

by reason of insanity is not the same thing it was back then -- but the initial poo pooing (minimizing the validity of mental illness) can make people IMO not want to learn more . So here we are again.

And again. People who want to eat healthier have to LEARN about it first! Same kinda thing.

Imo that is part of the core problem as it relates to mass shooters . Unless people give mental illness the seriousness it deserves these are gonna keep happening.

If someone minimizes the car stalling or something - they are not gonna seek help.

If this age group could be educated on what it truly looks like and is then possibly more might be flagged earlier - but then there is really no money to then do anything - so money is huge issue with mass shooters.
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Other countries have just as much mental illness as the US does.
 
AmyPond said:
Sickening. As always. I hate this country sometimes.
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We can agree to disagree.

As a 4th generation American citizen ... I love my country.

People do things like this tragedy in FL that break my heart. But that happens in other countries as well.

There are those who put themselves and their children in harms' way to (sometimes illegally) enter this country. Not Haiti or North Korea , but America.
Why not other countries ?
Because they think this country is better than the one they've abandoned.
 
LietKynes said:
Taking away all guns from the law abiding will leave plenty of guns in the hands of criminals.
I believe in the right to protect myself in the event of a home invasion.
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That's all very well, but I'm guessing that if your firearm is loaded and so readily to hand that you can pick it up and start shooting in an instant it's also likely to be within reach of any children in the house. Unless of course you wear it on your person all the time and sleep with it under your pillow.
 
PinkPrincessPoop said:
I believe one day the mental healthcare system can be greatly improved, MOO.
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I don't, simply because there will always be more demands on healthcare generally than a society can handle. Mental health problems in particular are massively complex, generally intractable and cannot rely on the co-operation of the patient in the way that, say, oncology services can.
 
LietKynes said:
We can agree to disagree.

As a 4th generation American citizen ... I love my country.

People do things like this tragedy in FL that break my heart. But that happens in other countries as well.

There are those who put themselves and their children in harms' way to (sometimes illegally) enter this country. Not Haiti or North Korea , but America.
Why not other countries ?
Because they think this country is better than the one they've abandoned.
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People from poor or war torn countries are trying to get to any western country, not just the US.
Have a look at Europe.
 
Jennifer17 said:
People from poor or war torn countries are trying to get to any western country, not just the US.
Have a look at Europe.
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I think the difference between Europe and the US is that Europe has progressive nationwide policies that support working parents and the US has established workaholic culture that makes it nearly impossible to work reasonable hours and raise your kids.
 
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