Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #22

[MsBetsy]

Was the verified user present during the supposed pistachio incident?

Somehow I got the impression that it is not relevant.

 

[Sleuthine]

I have to take issue with everyone calling SW bossy, or I’m bossy and I don’t know it. I’ve been married a very long time, and I love my husband very much, but when it comes to running a household, the guy is clueless, always has been, always will be. For example, often times, out of the blue, someone is coming over, and the house is a little messy. Maybe a few dishes need to be done, there’s a load of laundry on the couch that needs to be folded, the floor needs to be vacuumed. Stuff like that. I’ll ask my husband for help, and if I don’t boss him around, he’ll go straight to the refrigerator and start cleaning it out. I’ve tried to explain to him to go for the obvious, but he just doesn’t get it. Same goes for sending him to the grocery store. He’ll buy margarine instead of butter, fertile brown eggs (the blood in the yolks makes me gag), pumpkin pie mix, instead of pumpkin pulp. I have to give him very specific lists, or he’ll come home with things I’ve never heard of before. Is that just my marriage or are other guys like that?

IMO many marriages are like that and the behavior is a bit bossy (which isn't bad at all when it's fine with both parties).

The difference for me is when one partner talks bad about another partner in public or also in private. In your example that would be making a FB video and saying oh he is so clueless and stupid, don't you agree, he can't get the simplest things done...It is a lot in how you say things to others and to your partner. There must be respect.

 

[mtnlites]

What??? How could this have happened? Very strange!

It was a really weird time in our lives. That was one of many things on a long line of creepiness.

Re: the idea of CW smothering the girls and then placing SW's hands on their necks

If he did this then COD would show suffocation, not strangulation, due to the broken capillaries around the nose and the bruising around mouth and nose. While it is a similar COD in that breathing is cut off in both, the physical signs afterwards are different.

 

[Seattle1]

Hello everyone,
I am new to this site but I am interested in this case. I am a surgeon and have seen many people die from a variety of reasons and have never seen someone get ‘blue’ so quickly. However, i am aware that asphyxia from strangulation can cause ‘blue’ discoloration or cyanosis rather quickly, even when the victim is still alive. It is usually mild, so it is hard to comprehend that CHris Watts would have been able to see his daughter being blue on the monitor. I really think that is implausible

Also, i think it’s great to have verified friends and family of the victims speak up about their experiences and all but at the same time their opinions may be based on the experiences they lived with the victims or the murderer. Their opinions do not equal truth, at least to me.

This is such a heartbreaking case. Plain sad. Children that will never grow up, a healthy smart women that will never see another sunrise. Families shattered, and the perpetrator, not the victim here will live in a cage for the rest of his days.

I pray to whatever gods or energies exist that justice prevails. And that the trial is fair for those that cannot speak because their lives were taken from them.

Welcome to WS @Clement86 ! You're among friends here. Brilliant first post, and thanks for sharing your medical knowledge.

 

[NuttMegg]

Catching up from the last thread:

“MerryB said: ↑
Wow. You suspected SW lied about or exggagerated the children's health issues?
What about her own?
Thank you @Trinket78”

——
“I have also wonder about that.”

So now wondering about SW exaggerating her medical problems??? Really????

I’m in the autoimmune spectrum myself. She seems believable to me.

"You should have been here yesterday".

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

It's never advised to speak ill of the dead.

 

[Nikynoo]

But witnesses, as far as we know, aren't talking.

I disagree, NA has held an interview with MSM

 

[cshea99]

Thanks. For some reason I still can’t get that one to show up. And I’m not positive it was a FB video.

If someone has the diggity dog vid easily available let me know. Otherwise I’ll keep poking around.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10153812165766935

 

[Amandaaa]

I think it's a bit unfair to accuse those who believe the state with "confirmation bias" or if not looking at the "whole picture". There is a ton of evidence in this case. Extraordinarily powerful circumstantial evidence of his guilt as charged.

At the outset I analyzed everything presented with as much objectivity as I could muster. In fact, my initial posts entertained the possibility of SHANANN possibly having disappeared the girls and maybe even having gone of the deep end, taking them to a hotel or someplace and murdering them and killing herself due to some sort of psychosis or possibly some kind of horrific rage/revenge scenario which we see on the part of both men and women on a sadly regular basis in this nation.

But then more and more evidence came out. Much of which I posted which is at the beginning of the thread.

And in analyzing that evidence I formed an opinion that I feel is logical and reasonable, and not a result of "bias".

I'm willing to scrutinize the state or embrace the professions of innocence on the part of accused. I've done so in the past in several cases including quite high profile and super controversial ones.

I've also been able to cast a side eye at supposed victims of crime (Sherri Papini is a big one).

Use of critical thinking skills to analyze evidence and apply that to the law is something we attorney types are drilled on in law school and in practice. You have to be able to be objective or you're going to fail in this business. Period.

So yeah, after looking at the whole picture I have some strong opinions.

But that doesn't mean that there isn't something to learn from those who think otherwise or those who know and support CW.

I for one think that Trinket78's perspective is a valuable one on this site, for many reasons, along with the perspectives of others- witnesses and VI's who didn't loathe Shanann, and actually liked both parents and that discussion of all points of view is what makes this site so interesting.

But it is not a sign of an inability to be objective or fair, to consider Trinket78's unsubstantiated and unverified facts, and a perspective that appears to come from one who cares for the accused but dislikes the homicide victim, and respectfully decline THUS FAR, to find those statements to be a persuasive indication of CW's innocence.

That being said, there are various defenses in this case that could possibly be viable. They're worthy of a discussion.

I have strong, carefully considered opinions but I am interested to see what more comes out.

I would never say it was “confirmation bias” to *believe* the prosecution - but I have definitely come across a fair number of individuals who have refused to consider anything that doesn’t fall into line with their way of thinking. That’s the part I take issue with.

When I have a case, I actively seek out - AND consider - all information... everything and anything I can find that’s even tangentially related to it. Not only does it help me build my case (and counter the points made by the other side) - but sometimes I really do find that things are not as they first appeared. My “gut” is pretty good, most of the time, but I have also been surprised (on more than one occasion) to find that things were not as they’d initially appeared. I’ve also had cases tried in the media - where the court of public opinion had already judged my side based on complete misinformation. That really stings - especially when you can’t do anything to correct it, and just have to wait for it to play out at trial.

Is there evidence of CW’s guilt in this case? Absolutely. And I actually agree with much of what you state in your posts, and your analyses. And if I had to wager, I would likely side with the prosecution on this one. But I’m just not completely comfortable with that conclusion without having more to go on. JMO

 

[whisperOFwings]

When I was 11 years old, I was in class one day when my teacher noticed something on my neck and pulled me into the hallway. There were fingerprint bruises by either ear, the kind that would be made in a strangling. They were fresh. I had no idea how they gor there, I just knew my neck was hurting when I woke up that morning. My mom also taught in that school so they called her over. She placed her hand around my neck and it was obvious that the prints didn't match-they were bigger than her hand. She was a single parent and we didn't have anyone else in our house so the mystery remained unsolved.

I guess my point is that even without DNA, it was pretty easy to match handprints on my neck and I was still alive. I am pretty hopeful that the prints on the girls will be enough to determine who strangled them. I am still leery of the DNA around their necks, though, since it could have gotten there in other ways.

Oooooooh how spooky!!

 

[Thepoet]

I disagree, NA has held an interview with MSM

Didn't know that. Thanks. Link?

 

[margarita25]

Thanks! I'm kind of dreading the trial!

Me too. For obvious reasons. Like murder victims getting dragged through the mud. While their family has to watch the whole thing and listen to a bunch of irrelevant BS.

 

[BeanieBod]

From the photos, and the entrances and exits that they talk about being blocked, I do not think this door exist at their house. It clearly shows it was an optional door and it was never noted by Nicole or the police. I don't think it exists.

I believe it is code to have an external entry/exit door other than to the living area.

 

[cottonweaver]

I think it's a bit unfair to accuse those who believe the state with "confirmation bias" or if not looking at the "whole picture". There is a ton of evidence in this case. Extraordinarily powerful circumstantial evidence of his guilt as charged.

At the outset I analyzed everything presented with as much objectivity as I could muster. In fact, my initial posts entertained the possibility of SHANANN possibly having disappeared the girls and maybe even having gone of the deep end, taking them to a hotel or someplace and murdering them and killing herself due to some sort of psychosis or possibly some kind of horrific rage/revenge scenario which we see on the part of both men and women on a sadly regular basis in this nation.

But then more and more evidence came out. Much of which I posted which is at the beginning of the thread.

And in analyzing that evidence I formed an opinion that I feel is logical and reasonable, and not a result of "bias".

I'm willing to scrutinize the state or embrace the professions of innocence on the part of accused. I've done so in the past in several cases including quite high profile and super controversial ones.

I've also been able to cast a side eye at supposed victims of crime (Sherri Papini is a big one).

Use of critical thinking skills to analyze evidence and apply that to the law is something we attorney types are drilled on in law school and in practice. You have to be able to be objective or you're going to fail in this business. Period.

So yeah, after looking at the whole picture I have some strong opinions.

But that doesn't mean that there isn't something to learn from those who think otherwise or those who know and support CW.

I for one think that Trinket78's perspective is a valuable one on this site, for many reasons, along with the perspectives of others- witnesses and VI's who didn't loathe Shanann, and actually liked both parents and that discussion of all points of view is what makes this site so interesting.

But it is not a sign of an inability to be objective or fair, to consider Trinket78's unsubstantiated and unverified facts, and a perspective that appears to come from one who cares for the accused but dislikes the homicide victim, and respectfully decline THUS FAR, to find those statements to be a persuasive indication of CW's innocence.

That being said, there are various defenses in this case that could possibly be viable. They're worthy of a discussion.

I have strong, carefully considered opinions but I am interested to see what more comes out.

Thanks for the post about bias , objectivity & training.

Just want to query you on this part:"......along with the perspectives of others- witnesses and VI's who didn't loathe Shanann, and actually liked both parents....."

Gitana, I don't recollect Trinket saying anything about loathing SW nor about disliking any of the parents.
Loathe is a very strong word indeed.

 

[Kensie]

At post 376 there is a video of an oil tank (not sure of the correct terminology). Were the little girls dumped down those types of tanks?

I cannot unsee that video. The lid is opened and the idea that he tossed his girls like garbage down the tank.
Too much.

 

[margarita25]

Fabulous. Thank you for posting.

 

[Nikynoo]

Didn't know that. Thanks. Link?

there are probably others in the Media thread too Video: Friend of woman allegedly killed by husband on why something 'didn't seem right'

 

[Tigerlily75]

\

Paraphrasing but it was the part about a baby could strengthen the relationship. He read it off and then said something like 'I don't agree with that'. Why would you disagree with something you, yourself had written? I am not sure that you are supposed to copy and paste from other sources for your own presentation are you?
Unless it it technical or expert tracts and then, shouldn't you cite your source?

You can quote sources in a presentation or essay, and then disagree with or debate the merits of the quoted statement. As long as you attribute quotes correctly, that's pretty standard.

I'm speaking generally, I only half watched that video, as it was a little boring

 

[Jennifer17]

Me too. For obvious reasons. Like murder victims getting dragged through the mud. While their family has to watch the whole thing.

Well, if all the defence has is that she was bossy or a hypochondriac, it will backfire on them. I do not think that they will go that route. Gossip is not evidence.

 

[MerryB]

And both sides of a discussion can have confirmation bias, not just the side that you disagree with.

I believe that I’ve been open to all viewpoints, not just my own. In fact, I’m still interested in learning more so that I can evolve and change my theory based on new information. I have encouraged everyone to do the same. So, if you are implying I have confirmation bias, I respectfully disagree.