Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #24

[dixiegirl1035]

I'm not an expert however if the bodies were dead when he dumped them in the oil they would not be able to "ingest" oil, but I hope an expert can expand on this.

It WAS discussed here quite early on that CW may have transferred DNA from SW to the children's necks, that's why the defense team requested a DNA search on their necks. All this is just my NON EXPERT MOO.

Perhaps think of oil always floats to the top because it is less dense than water. Human body sinks?

The average adult human body is 50-65% water, averaging around 57-60%. The percentage of water in infants is much higher, typically around 75-78% water, dropping to 65% by one year of age.

Oil and water don't mix because water molecules are more attracted to each other than to oil molecules.

As with drowning, if alveoli had oil if alive, oil would be found in lungs/air passages imho

 

[nwmouse]

Yes. The same applies for victims who are submerged in water. Science can determine if they were dead or not before they entered the water, based on fluid in the lungs.

Thank you.

 

[Jennifer17]

This is such a crucial question and I hope we can get someone to weigh in on it. AFAIK when there is a fire and the victim is dead beforehand they can determine it because there was no smoke inhalation into the lungs? Perhaps this will be the case for the crude oil?

Water is not always found in the stomachs of drowning victims.

 

[Amandaaa]

If the affidavits accurately portray his explanation, there would be no time for his to try to revive the babies.

How long would it take for him to strangle his wife to death? From what I understand, it takes 4 to 5 minutes.

If he spent those precious minutes, strangling SW, his baby would have slipped away before there was anything he could do.

There’s so little info it’s tough to say - it’s going to come down to whatever other info they have, and the details of his confession.

If he says he came into the room and tried but realized (quickly) they were already dead, and *then* went into a rage and strangled SW, IMO he impairs any possible defense relating to trying to protect the girls. We have no CoD. Maybe BW wasn’t strangled - or maybe it was a ligature that he tried frantically to untie. (I’m not saying this is what I believe, or that I think it’s likely- just something he could possibly claim). hopefully the postmortems will provide enough info to try to figure out what happened, when, and by whom.

 

[nwmouse]

Agree @nwmouse, but I don't think it was confirmed that CW was getting water downstairs only that CW "walked downstairs for a moment" .
https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/19th_Judicial_District/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/001/Warrantless Arrest Affidavit.pdf

It wasn't confirmed - it was hypothesized that he went down for a glass of water and we then discussed that he could have gotten water in the bathroom instead. I think we're ALL analyzing and trying to make sense of every tiny detail here because its an appalling crime involving the murder of a pregnant mum, unborn baby boy and two innocent toddlers.

 

[MassGuy]

Agree @nwmouse, but I don't think it was confirmed that CW was getting water downstairs only that CW "walked downstairs for a moment" .
https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/19th_Judicial_District/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/001/Warrantless Arrest Affidavit.pdf

Even that is contingent upon C.W. telling the truth. My rule of thumb is to assume that everything he says is a lie.

 

[kizzykat]

As per affidavit, I wonder what CW "walked downstairs for a moment" for? If it was for a glass of water, there were washrooms upstairs to get water from. If his claim is true, what did he go downstairs for?

https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/19th_Judicial_District/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/001/Warrantless Arrest Affidavit.pdf

Maybe he went downstairs for a moment to check all the locks? A lot of people do that as a routine before going to bed. Maybe he did it to make sure there was not an easy escape out of the house?

 

[PommyMommy]

I owned one like that, the "3rd" door (instead of a full door), AFAIK the F250 & F350 interiors are the same. It was older than CW but the backseat was very roomy, seat a bit shallow but plenty wide from door to too. Put it this way, 3 grown men can ride back there with more elbow room than a car.

That's pretty much the way I imagined it - plenty of room. Thanks!

 

[nwmouse]

Water is not always found in the stomachs of drowning victims.

Would it not be found in the lungs, though?

 

[NuttMegg]

This is such a crucial question and I hope we can get someone to weigh in on it. AFAIK when there is a fire and the victim is dead beforehand they can determine it because there was no smoke inhalation into the lungs? Perhaps this will be the case for the crude oil?

I'm way out of my league here, but smoke is a gas, and there might be limited, ie short time contact with that gas? With the persistant oil, under some pressure maybe that would make a big difference over the several days they were (presumably) submerged. Maybe their heads weren't even under the surface. So: how far down can the oil go if the body is submerged and there are several days of contact, presumably under some pressure?

 

[nwmouse]

Perhaps think of oil always floats to the top because it is less dense than water. Human body sinks?

The average adult human body is 50-65% water, averaging around 57-60%. The percentage of water in infants is much higher, typically around 75-78% water, dropping to 65% by one year of age.

Oil and water don't mix because water molecules are more attracted to each other than to oil molecules.

As with drowning, if alveoli had oil if alive, oil would be found in lungs/air passages imho

BBM mine: IF they were alive when place in the crude oil tanks -- thank you for the explanation. However we're surmising that the girls were dead when he submerged them so oil would NOT be found in the lungs/air passages.

 

[MsBetsy]

That could be true Pally but I question why CW went downstairs at that particular moment if they were having an emotional conversation.

Especially since he apparently woke her up after she only slept for a couple of hours and most likely was so exhausted she could hardly stay awake for a conversation ( I remember what I was like during that stage of pregnancy, I would have gone right back to sleep as soon as he left the room, no matter how hard I tried to stay awake) and he knew he had to leave earlier than usual before breaking the news to her and then leaving soon after, with no consideration of further discussion .... Until later. Except there was no later. Imo

 

[katydid23]

There’s so little info it’s tough to say - it’s going to come down to whatever other info they have, and the details of his confession.

If he says he came into the room and tried but realized (quickly) they were already dead, and *then* went into a rage and strangled SW, IMO he impairs any possible defense relating to trying to protect the girls. We have no CoD. Maybe BW wasn’t strangled - or maybe it was a ligature that he tried frantically to untie. (I’m not saying this is what I believe, or that I think it’s likely- just something he could possibly claim). hopefully the postmortems will provide enough info to try to figure out what happened, when, and by whom.

Right. But he apparently said his wife was actively strangling the 2nd child when he ran in to stop her. So that means, in my experience, that she could have been helped, possibly revived, with some intense medical efforts to do so. Why not call 911 immediately if it was only a minute or two after the assault?

 

[nwmouse]

I'm way out of my league here, but smoke is a gas, and there might be limited, ie short time contact with that gas? With the persistant oil, under some pressure maybe that would make a big difference over the several days they were (presumably) submerged. Maybe their heads weren't even under the surface. So: how far down can the oil go if the body is submerged and there are several days of contact, presumably under some pressure?

I hope some experts can weigh in here and that this is a question that will be brought up in the trial. I think its absolutely CRUCIAL.

 

[MassGuy]

BBM mine: IF they were alive when place in the crude oil tanks -- thank you for the explanation. However we're surmising that the girls were dead when he submerged them so oil would NOT be found in the lungs/air passages.

Exactly. And it makes no sense for the kids to have been transported alive and then drowned. This would be complicated and incredibly risky. I firmly believe they died in the house, and were very likely strangled.

 

[kizzykat]

Eek, having a brain fart. What is an MI??

MI = myocardial infarction = heart attack

 

[JEM1975]

No. I don't know much about forensics but it seems like that would be so hard to figure out - whose hands they were around a neck.

The neck sizes are different too.

But autopsy results and other physical evidence will be interesting.

Other than that I'm most interested to find out about the phone/text messages to his wife that day (I think those will be damning), his interrogation video, (I'm betting money there's no evidence of a dissociative state and sudden awakening), his internet and cell history and what AP has to say.

I hope we get a prelim but I Im not holding my breath.

@gitana1 How long until discovery becomes public usually?

 

[katydid23]

Especially since he apparently woke her up after she only slept for a couple of hours and most likely was so exhausted she could hardly stay awake for a conversation ( I remember what I was like during that stage of pregnancy, I would have gone right back to sleep as soon as he left the room, no matter how hard I tried to stay awake) and he knew he had to leave earlier than usual before breaking the news to her and then leaving soon after, with no consideration of further discussion .... Until later. Except there was no later. Imo

Ohhh, you bring up an interesting point. Why the heck was CW up and about at 4 am? His neighbor said she never saw him leaving at 5:30 am before. She said that was earlier than usual.

Why was he up so early, if he didn't know he was going to need to make that dump run before work?

 

[Jennifer17]

Would it not be found in the lungs, though?

If they were alive when they went in the water, not if already dead, but I can't answer whether the pressure of oil would enter their bodies.

 

[NuttMegg]

I hope some experts can weigh in here and that this is a question that will be brought up in the trial. I think its absolutely CRUCIAL.

Being an oil industry employee for several years, CW and other employees may very well have known what happens with human bodies in crude oil.

 

[MassGuy]

If they were alive when they went in the water, not if already dead, but I can't answer whether the pressure of oil would enter their bodies.

It might. But this would be rendered moot by evidence of strangulation. There would likely be marks, and quite likely their hyoid bones would be broken. This is a telltale sign of strangulation.