Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #34

[gitana1]

In your professional opinion, how would it taint a potential jury? It is my understanding that the autopsy is just cause/manner of death/toxicology. Forensic information is separate.
MOO

In the Casey Anthony trial multitudes of jurors were dismissed because they had already come to a conclusion that she was guilty.

That left a pool of jurors that no prosecution would want to pick from.

Releasing evidence about the way these children and SW died and were concealed after death -post mortem injuries, etc., would inflame a lot of people. One poster here stated he or she slid off the fence due to the experts on AB stating the oil tanks had 8 inch diameter holes (which means the bodies likely had to have been jammed, broken, crammed, to fit).

The prosecution surely doesn't want to be left with people for whom that isn't compelling evidence of guilt and depravity.

So, keeping that autopsy sealed makes perfect sense.

That may be disappointing for those convinced the state is hiding the COD because it's favorable to CW and right now they're in secret talks with SW's family to gently break the news that the charges are about to be dropped.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

I’m way behind... what is the question?

@Amandaaa
I believe @MerryB wanted your opinion on the prosecutions motion to seal the autopsies and the reasons given in the motion.

 

[nwmouse]

That will depend upon how much of that the judge will allow in. And I think that CW will have to take the stand if they want to get really in depth with that scenario of her being the killer. I wonder if that's a good idea for the defense or not?

I HOPE CW takes the stand. i really do!

 

[katydid23]

I’m just saying that IMO those who argue it is fair to discuss gruesome ways the children’s bodies may have been manipulated to get into the tanks because it will be discussed at trial must allow discussion of SW’s character and potential psychological issues based on the argument that although it’s hurtful, it will be analyzed in court.

I am not sure how much her 'potential psychological issues' will be analyzed in court. The state will not bring that up in their main case. And when the defense offers their case, the judge will have to agree that those videos will be allowed, and for what purpose. They will have to explain to the judge that SW forced her child to sit on Santa's lap, and that it showed cruelty and harshness towards her child. I don't think the judge is going to buy that, JMO/

Same problem with the pie in the face video and the water pistols. I think these will backfire anyway because it will just show the jury a fun side of the family life, the happiness the girls had, their enthusiasm, and the way Mom was engaged in trying to create family holidays and events.

The judge is not going to discuss 'psychological issues' of SW unless there are diagnosed mental health issues for the jury to discuss. The defense is not going to be able to say she was a liar and a hypochondriac unless they can show the judge medical records saying she did not have any illnesses and the girls did not have any illnesses. And I do not believe that is going to happen. JMO MOO IMO

 

[liltexans]

And that is how tiny babies get life threatening lung infections or whooping cough before they can be vaccinated.

This is true, but I'm going to stop this discussion before it goes further. We are not going to discuss vaccinations in this thread. It has no bearing on these murders as far as I know.

 

[LittleFleurDeLys]

He better not have any women on the jury.

I'm not sure... this could also be a plus for him. Those ladies who think like: "aaaww... he is sooooo cuuuute [insert thousands of hearts] of course his wife drove him nuts he deserved a lot better!".

But I totally understand what you mean. I went through the same. Being pregnant can be extremly exhausting! Even from this point of view his story doesn't sound the slightest realistic. I just hope that there are no "CW-fangirls" or that at least some of them use common sense.

 

[Jennifer17]

This is true, but I'm going to stop this discussion before it goes further. We are not going to discuss vaccinations in this thread. It has no bearing on these murders as far as I know.

Apologies.

 

[gitana1]

If COD comes back as strangulation, how would that influence one’s opinion? That fits both D & P’s version of events.

Well there's a lot more in an autopsy report than COD. But I would venture to guess that most people reading the news and autopsy reports would conclude that SW strangled his family and the few that didn't conclude that would not be the types the prosecution wants on the jury.

 

[Mo Thuairim]

After catching last Thursday's AB again, I can't see any other way CW could have "placed" the girls into those tanks other than by dumping them through the top thief hatches.

We know the girls were at a minimum last seen at a birthday party sometime before the murders. If the tanks were "mostly full," I don't see how CW could have emptied one completely into another in order to have an empty tank, unbolt the clean out/manway, and repeated those steps for the next tank.

I'm eager to find out more about the actual sizing of the thief hatches at the burial site. Jmo

As far as I understand it from @Layla123's summary, that expert believes the tanks at the burial site were API 12F models. (I am not sure if that is definitely correct but that's what he seemed to think.)
The specs are attached here including details of 8in thief hatch.
https://law.resource.org/pub/us/cfr/ibr/002/api.12f.1994.pdf

 

[liltexans]

Apologies.

No worries. I just know where things can head and we can't go down that particular rabbit hole at this time. If vaccinations come up in the evidence, we will reconsider their discussion.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

I HOPE CW takes the stand. i really do!

I'll bring the popcorn!

 

[gitana1]

And if the defense goes that route then I would hope they heard from people who actually knew her....friends, family, neighbors, doctors, coworkers, not from social media videos. They would have to put these people on the stand since they can't put her up there, seeing how she's dead and all.

Yeah. And we've heard from those who knew her closely, in Colorado. Haven't heard anything to substantiate any of that.

 

[rainynights]

I am not sure how much her 'potential psychological issues' will be analyzed in court. The state will not bring that up in their main case. And when the defense offers their case, the judge will have to agree that those videos will be allowed, and for what purpose. They will have to explain to the judge that SW forced her child to sit on Santa's lap, and that it showed cruelty and harshness towards her child. I don't think the judge is going to buy that, JMO/

Same problem with the pie in the face video and the water pistols. I think these will backfire anyway because it will just show the jury a fun side of the family life, the happiness the girls had, their enthusiasm, and the way Mom was engaged in trying to create family holidays and events.

The judge is not going to discuss 'psychological issues' of SW unless there are diagnosed mental health issues for the jury to discuss. The defense is not going to be able to say she was a liar and a hypochondriac unless they can show the judge medical records saying she did not have any illnesses and the girls did not have any illnesses. And I do not believe that is going to happen. JMO MOO IMO

And truthfully, I don't know how much of SW's character can even be ascertained from those videos. To me, it seems clear that her FB account had a heavy emphasis on promoting her product. I think it's important for anyone to consider the work context when viewing those videos.

It's absolutely a unique case here in considering the heavy use of SM, and how it was used (a blended approach of posting lifestyle and work at the same time).

Despite any of those videos, I believe once we get more of the facts, the videos will be not even a microscopic drop in the bucket compared to the horrors of what CW has already confessed to, and what could come out of more evidence. Jmo.

 

[MsBetsy]

No, not at all. I’m saying I do not believe that to be the reason. MOO

Do not believe the reason to be not to taint the jury pool, as was implied in their response to releasing the results to the pubic, or for some other unknown reason? Just trying to understand. I can't help thinking there is some other reason that people are thinking of, which has yet to be revealed.
Is this so?? And if it is, what is the assumption?

 

[Mrspratcher]

No worries. I just know where things can head and we can't go down that particular rabbit hole at this time. If vaccinations come up in the evidence, we will reconsider their discussion.

@liltexans can you please confirm whether discussions implying/claiming (i) SW had Munchausen by Proxy and (ii) suggesting CW wasn’t Nico’s father are not ok?

 

[mickey2942]

Christopher Watts trial judge orders autopsy must go to defense

If those babies were mutilated to smash them into oil tankers, CW is beyond a "monster".

Interesting perspective on finding jurors for this guy. I wouldn't be picked, that is for sure.

It looks like Colorado is on the fence about the death penalty. It matters little to me, as long as he never steps out of jail again. And even if he gets a pass on killing his babies, it is definite that he killed SW, baby, and threw away their bodies. That alone, gets him life in prison. Enjoy the time.

 

[gitana1]

I HOPE CW takes the stand. i really do!

He would have to in order to get in some of this nonsense. Remember the Jodi arias trial? She had to testify to her disgusting allegations about him being a pedophile.

Here, any nonsense about her being abusive by taking the kids to the doctor "too much" or whatever, would have to come from him. Or the kids' doctors.

For example, you can't have his family get up and say, "She took the kids to the doctor a lot. My brother felt that was excessive and was worried." Nope. That's hearsay. He would have to testify to that.

But if he did, the doctors, for example, would then be subpoenaed and I don't think there's a shred of evidence they would say anything to indicate she was abusing the kids or lying about their illnesses. That would probably backfire spectacularly for the defense.

And of course, the court has to find that any allegations are relevant to a defense.

 

[katydid23]

Remember it’s the Prosecution that wants it sealed.
MOO

right. and they explained why. they wanted to protect the jury pool.

imo, that means they don't want everyone to think he is guilty. When that happens it is very hard to get a good jury. You end up with people who either NEVER look at the news or read papers, OR you get people who read the news, see the autopsy and the way he disposed the bodies and they still don't think he is guilty. And that is how Casey Anthony got away from her charges.

 

[rainynights]

As far as I understand it from @Layla123's summary, that expert believes the tanks at the burial site were API 12F models. (I am not sure if that is definitely correct but that's what he seemed to think.)
The specs are attached here including details of 8in thief hatch.
https://law.resource.org/pub/us/cfr/ibr/002/api.12f.1994.pdf

Absolutely. I was considering @Seattle1 's post in a previous thread (quote below, sbm) that brought up a good point -- sounds like there could be a possibility that the hatch space could have been larger than that, if the hatch was removed. We don't know for sure if that was the case, but it's interesting to consider. Jmo

However, I did find that removing the 8 inch hatch would only require 16 bolts (fewer bolts than 24 x 36 inch manway), and provide a 10-3/8 inch circle for the normal 8 inch opening on an API storage tank. More resources for spec nerds at link below:
2018 API Storage Tank Conference & Expo

 

[Jennifer17]

He would have to in order to get in some of this nonsense. Remember the Jodi arias trial? She had to testify to her disgusting allegations about him being a pedophile.

Here, any nonsense about her being abusive by taking the kids to the doctor "too much" or whatever, would have to come from him. Or the kids' doctors.

For example, you can't have his family get up and say, "She took the kids to the doctor a lot. My brother felt that was excessive and was worried." Nope. That's hearsay. He would have to testify to that.

But if he did, the doctors, for example, would then be subpoenaed and I don't think there's a shred of evidence they would say anything to indicate she was abusing the kids or lying about their illnesses. That would probably backfire spectacularly for the defense.

And of course, the court has to find that any allegations are relevant to a defense.

A doctor would never say that she took her children to the doctors too often. IMO