Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #34

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by ColoGirl, Aug 16, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. ColoGirl

    ColoGirl Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    173
    Likes Received:
    650
    Trophy Points:
    93


  2. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator Moderator

    Messages:
    26,557
    Likes Received:
    24,523
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Hey Everyone,

    A bit of clarification.

    Please, no more discussion on the viability of Shanann's company or whether her company was or wasn't a pyramid scheme. No more digging up documents or complaints or anything to do with the function of the company. The fact is Shanann's company is not what we are discussing.

    If want to discuss if job stress may have contributed to Shanann and Chris' relationship problems please make sure it is in the realm of reality and not the Twilight Zone.

    Thank you,
    Tricia
     
    kirkassoc and Kensie like this.
  3. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

    Messages:
    24,254
    Likes Received:
    147,187
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I am posting the evidence we know of again as some have asked. If anyone has other evidence to add please copy and add.

    Evidence of triple murder:

    1. Dad claims he saw a blue child on a baby monitor at night.

    2. The coincidence of two people, unrelated by blood, both reacting to something in a short span of time by losing their minds and committing homicide, defies reason.

    3. The coincidence of those same people both committing homicide in the exact same manner -strangulation- is unlikely.

    4. A father passionate enough with love for his children, to kill at the sight of them being harmed, would be desperate beyond reason to save them. But:
    a. Dad failed to call 911 to try to save his children. Even if he thought they were beyond help, a parentslove is so intense they will desperately and irrationally try for help that will never come.
    b. There is no account of him throwing off the mother and working desperately to revive them or resuscitate them. Hell, total strangers have performed CPR on a child's corpse in rigor. (Cooper Harris case). But a passionately loving dad didn't even try in this case?

    5. The dad failed to call 911 after killing his wife in a supposed fury of emotion.

    6. Dad also failed to run screaming onto the lawn for help or in anguish.
    In cases of such Greek tragedy magnitude either 5 or 6 usually comes into play.

    7. This entire scene - the "emotional argument", the vicious strangulation of two children, the father witnessing the incomprehensible and reacting with murderous fury and anguish - all of it was totally silent. Except for the poor dog howling that night. How do we know? Because the houses are in close proximity and neighbors mentioned hearing nothing but the dog the next day IIRC.

    8. CW did not scream or wail in anguish so great that it caused him to murder his wife. Not one report of such sounds.

    9. CW supposedly lost his mind in grief and anguish. However he regained it in moments in a manner that does not comport with a true mental break. In cases we have seen where people lose it and commit murder, they are typically either wailing on the lawn and to 911 operators or they are in an apparent psychotic state- not lying about what happened, not covering it up, not able to function normally at all. See thumbnail of Julie Schenecker as an example of what this looks like. Police interview Julie Schenecker after kids found dead

    10. CW, after such an insanely, horrific Greek tragedy of a scene, calmly loaded up the bodies of his wife and children in order to conceal their deaths and dispose of them. We know this because a neighbor stated she witnessed him leaving. (No reports of wailing and she said, IIRC, the truck drove normally. So no veering, spinning of tires or other signs of lack of composure). And it's apparently on video.

    11. CW, a man passionately in love enough with his kids to erupt in murderous rage when they're harmed, did not attempt to give them a burial that comports psychologically with the love and bond parents have with their kids. Death Rituals Reported by White, Black, and Hispanic Parents Following the ICU Death of an Infant or Child
    A Global History of Child Death

    12. Instead he dumps them in two separate vats of oil. Not together. No way to commemorate their lives. Concealed. Discarded. In a manner that veers from any known traditional burial rite of any kind.

    13. CW went to work and monitored the ring video of his house. After the horrific Greek tragedy he just endured. He went to work. And monitored the video of his front door.

    14. CW left a few voice messages and sent some texts to the wife he knew was dead, thus calmly concealing what happened.

    15. CW calmly called SW's friend after she came to the door and he saw her on the ring video. He asked what was going on. We know this because he stated as much and this is corroborated by the friend.

    16. CW rushed home - blowing stop signs and with beating heart, according to him- when CW came to the house and expressed alarm. The first time we have heard of a hint of emotion on his part since the horrific murders of his kids supposedly by his wife and his heat of passion killing of her, occurs when he the authorities are about to get involved.

    17. CW cooly lied to the friend about where SW was supposed to be that day and why she wasn't at home. After he lost his mind the night before. He is calm and able to work to conceal those events.

    18. There is not one hint of brief reactive psychosis or drug induced psychosis in CW's demeanor and behavior since 5:15 am the morning of the deaths, nor the next day as he gives calm and detailed interviews to the media. His pupils are normal. He is not slurring speech. He does not have a vacant stare. He exhibits no delusions or paranoia. He is not showing emotional lability. (I'm no expert in psychology but have seen a few psychotic people due to psychotic breaks or drugs and it's easy to research).

    19. CW shows no anguish, depression, grief, concern, sadness or despair during his stoic media interviews, despite having supposedly been so deranged by his passionate love for his kids that he killed their attacker. His eyes are dry. Not red. No signs of puffiness from weeping. His face is smooth and calm. He looks well rested. No bags under his eyes. He smiles. He grins. He smirks. All with the knowledge that his insane wife savagely murdered his precious babies causing him to lose his mind with anguish. And with the knowledge that the people he loved so fiercely it caused him to kill, are rotting in separate vats of oil.

    20. CW calmly and continuously lies to the media about the whereabouts of his dead wife and dead children.

    21. CW systematically works with LE to track down his wife and kids. Brainstorming. Supplying numbers and addresses. Calling people. All the while knowing they are dead and decomposing.

    22. CW is questioned and lies about having an affair. A motive in many murders of wives.

    23. SW was pregnant. (A circumstance present in vast numbers of murders of spouses or parents by men).

    24. Some people and report that CW seemed distant with his wife and kids in the weeks leading up to this monstrous event.

    25. CW was not hospitalized for any reason after this tragedy.

    A couple of things from the CO model jury instructions:

    D:01 DIRECT AND CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE—NO DISTINCTION

    A fact may be proven by either direct or circumstantial evidence. Under the law, both are acceptable ways to prove something. Neither is necessarily more reliable than the other.


    E:03 PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE, BURDEN OF PROOF, AND REASONABLE DOUBT

    Reasonable doubt means a doubt based upon reason and common sense which arises from a fair and rational consideration of all of the evidence, or the lack of evidence, in the case. It is a doubt which is not a vague, speculative or imaginary doubt, but such a doubt as would cause reasonable people to hesitate to act in matters of importance to themselves.

    https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/Supreme_Court/Committees/Criminal_Jury_Instructions/2017/COLJI-Crim 2017 - Final.pdf
     

    Attached Files:

  4. Harmony 2

    Harmony 2 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

    Messages:
    12,758
    Likes Received:
    20,639
    Trophy Points:
    113
    ...and of course our illustrious verified attorney and long time member Gitana1.
     
  5. MKZoo

    MKZoo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    457
    Likes Received:
    6,125
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Bringing this over from the previous thread.

    I just re-watched the interview and wow, you are correct. It's like he's thinking back to old memories of them as opposed to a series of things that theoretically would have happened the previous day.

    I think I missed it because I was so focused on the gobbledygook that he says right before that part. First he says he hopes SW is safe and with the kids, as if they may have gone missing separately. That sounds really nuts until we find out she actually was not with the kids. He then does this whole series of "ifs". If they are safe, they will come back. Well they aren't, so they won't. If they are not safe AND someone has them, I want them back. They are not safe but no one has them, so you don't want them back. There were several posters yesterday who pointed out just how much he was revealing and it's quite chilling.
     
  6. Mo Thuairim

    Mo Thuairim Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    221
    Likes Received:
    2,686
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I think LE were totally onto him before he even did the interviews. From the sounds of what the 9News journalist was saying in that interview, CW was expressing concern to the journalist pre-interview (on the phone) about possibly having the finger pointed at him. To me, the journalist sounds skeptical about what CW's real concerns are.
    It's hard to hear as the audio on the journo isn't great and apologies if I haven't transcribed it 100% accurately but this is what I hear the journalist saying around 2.55mins in.

    "I wanted to ask you a little bit about the hard part. Your first thought is: 'Where are they? I want them back.' Your second thought is, you know, your friends were telling me, you've got some... and we kind of heard from you a little over the phone... You're also... your second thought is that you're afraid people think you may have done something."

     
  7. Harmony 2

    Harmony 2 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

    Messages:
    12,758
    Likes Received:
    20,639
    Trophy Points:
    113
  8. PommyMommy

    PommyMommy #ShinelikeShanann

    Messages:
    23,739
    Likes Received:
    246,859
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Good morning,
    I wanted to share this episode of AB with Joe Scott Morgan because it has a good illustration of the superglue fuming method for comparing finger/palm prints that was discussed here several threads back.
     
    roteone, Layla123, The Saint and 3 others like this.
  9. liltexans

    liltexans Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    13,446
    Likes Received:
    25,678
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Please continue the discussion here and please keep the following points in mind:

    Welcome to all new members. Please take a moment to familiarize yourselves with our Rules and Terms of Service (TOS).

    Do NOT personalize your posts or direct them in any way toward another poster. This is not Facebook. Be respectful whether you agree with another poster or not. We have a helpful "ignore" feature if you can't stand to read a particular poster's thoughts. Otherwise, just scroll and roll if you do not have anything constructive to contribute to the line of discussion.

    Do not tell others how or what to post. Do not attempt to moderate the thread yourselves. Those are all TOS violations. Use the "Report" feature if you have a problem with a post or another poster and let the moderators handle it.

    Do NOT bring rumors and gossip here from Facebook. It is against TOS and it serves no purpose here other than to stir the pot. We are allowing discussion of the defense put forward by CW's legal team, but we will not allow or tolerate any bashing of SW or her children. Leave that nonsense on Facebook or expect to receive warning points and possibly a timeout.

    Thank you.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2018
  10. Gardener1850

    Gardener1850 Remembering Cupcake

    Messages:
    37,122
    Likes Received:
    79,431
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Thank you, Gitana! Bravo.
     
  11. Thepoet

    Thepoet Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,113
    Likes Received:
    12,761
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gitana,

    Amazing post, it says all that needs to be said. Thank you!
     
  12. katydid23

    katydid23 Verified Juanette

    Messages:
    54,281
    Likes Received:
    78,814
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Bluff Posted:
    My post referred to the possibility that CW may have experienced PTSD symptoms after the traumatic events unfolded. What those events were that morning we do not know at this time.


    [from previous thread]

    You don't believe his version of the traumatic events?
     
  13. Seattle1

    Seattle1 #LiveLikeLizzy

    Messages:
    11,824
    Likes Received:
    115,675
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes! Great minds do think alike, and I agree entry force required.

    I also tried similar experiment this morning-- simulating entry through an 8 inch "thief hatch." I found that if holding arms together over the head, the shoulders will collapse some, but not enough not to catch on the gasket. Although a crude greased body would make it easier, force would still be required. However, I did find that removing the 8 inch hatch would only require 16 bolts (fewer bolts than 24 x 36 inch manway), and provide a 10-3/8 inch circle for the normal 8 inch opening on an API storage tank. More resources for spec nerds at link below:
    2018 API Storage Tank Conference & Expo
     
  14. @katydid23 I don't believe or disbelieve CW's version of events. I am waiting until all the evidence is compiled and presented before I am able to commit to any one scenario of events. This is not to say that I am not appalled by his actions though.
     
    KathrynL, MyBelle, Katharine and 7 others like this.
  15. katydid23

    katydid23 Verified Juanette

    Messages:
    54,281
    Likes Received:
    78,814
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Oh wow. 10 inches would probably do it. Good thinking.
     
    realms, SN76, DexterMorgan and 12 others like this.
  16. katydid23

    katydid23 Verified Juanette

    Messages:
    54,281
    Likes Received:
    78,814
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The only thing I can possibly compare it to was the two very sad times we buried our beloved pets. Both died of old age and had been with us for a very long time. We gave our 22 yr old cat and our 14 yr old shih Tzu and very loving and tearful, respectful burials. Both were wrapped in their blankets we had used on their comfy pillow beds.

    We buried them in a deep grave in our back garden area, and put memorial stones in place to remember them by.

    I cant even imagine cramming them into an oil tank.
     
    realms, MintLeighf, libraryg and 37 others like this.
  17. Jennifer17

    Jennifer17 Former Member

    Messages:
    9,559
    Likes Received:
    50,324
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Me either. I was upset when I sold my family home and had to leave three pets behind buried in the back yard.
    I brough the three little cross markers to the new home and they are lined up side by side along the back fence and one has been added since then.
     
  18. Johnny1181

    Johnny1181 Former Member

    Messages:
    871
    Likes Received:
    10,604
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I can't even imagine how CW could have done what he has minimally confessed to.

    I'm with you. Most of us have more love, respect, and reverence for our pet babies than he for his daughters, wife, and unborn son.

    His babies, his wife, his unborn son. Every step he took up those ladders and down again to carry Bella and CeCe and dump them in those oil tanks took deliberate action and a decision. The decision to carry one, dump her, then the decision to gather up the other, climb up, and dump her.

    Then to be able to cover your wife and mother of your babies in dirt, shovel by shovel.

    I really just can't imagine how any human being is capable of this. I really can't. But, he told us he is, per the affavit.

    And he told us he is a liar per the interviews. I hope the prosecution nails him on every single count. I cannot understand how you could live another minute after doing just what he confessed to doing. Let alone preen and grin for the cameras showing off a shirt.
    imo
     
    realms, MintLeighf, libraryg and 37 others like this.
  19. Kensie

    Kensie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,058
    Likes Received:
    7,609
    Trophy Points:
    113
    As I have said a million times, I cannot wrap my head around this case. An absolutely beautiful family living a nice life in a nice home, and they are murdered by one person that claimed to love them.
     
  20. Jennifer17

    Jennifer17 Former Member

    Messages:
    9,559
    Likes Received:
    50,324
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No, not all weird. That is why we have memorial stones on graves.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page



  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice