Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #40

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flourish said:
I do find it incredibly interesting that when peeps want to demonstrate what a great mother SW was, they point to the photos and videos. However, if anyone sees something else in the videos, they suddenly can't possibly provide any information. I'm not saying she was or was not a great mother, but you (general you) can't have it both ways--they either show something or they don't.
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Pointing to the videos and saying that she looks like a good mother, or she seems to be the one who “wears the pants,” is one thing.

Saying that these videos indicate who actually committed the crime, is a different thing entirely.

We all see different things, and thus, they aren’t hard evidence.
 
katydid23 said:
There is a verified insider, who is very very close to CW. She was even at his Mother's home when the allergic/nut incident happened. So she is a close family friend . And she said that she has never seen him angry.
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But again she didn’t live with him. Just because she never “saw” it; doesn't mean it never happened. Unfortunately we can’t ask SW since he murdered her. I suspect the kids saw his anger before that day too. I consider myself a good person, and my friends would say I rarely get angry. But they would not use the word “never”
 
Best of What's Around said:
I can understand wanting to hear those things, I think most of us do. One thing you said I am curious about - is that it would be important for you to know if CW had to make adjustments to fit the bodies in the tanks. Do you mean that makes him more likely to have committed their murders? Dumping them in the tanks without adjustments is more understandable in your mind and not indicative of him being their murderer?
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I can consider a possibility that the tanks were important or somehow symbolic for CW.. I can stretch that consideration only so far, though. If he damaged the babies to get them in there, then any considerations about symbolism or anything like that is pretty negated, in my opinion, at that point. Most likely
 
flourish said:
I do find it incredibly interesting that when peeps want to demonstrate what a great mother SW was, they point to the photos and videos. However, if anyone sees something else in the videos, they suddenly can't possibly provide any information. I'm not saying she was or was not a great mother, but you (general you) can't have it both ways--they either show something or they don't.
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Likewise, the diagnosing of personality or spectrum disorders.
 
whisperOFwings said:
Quoting my own post for the pictures... EDIT...ugh, they didn't post!!!
Ok, I may have found the blue blanket. But I can't seem to be able to save pictures from SW Instagram. Any help on how to do that?
Bellas thin comforter is solid blue on one side, white w/ blue trim on the other.
Thrive Healthy Fit Mom on Instagram: “Before school this morning, Celeste decided I needed to rearrange Bella's clothes. ‍♀️‍♀️ I am looking forward to her starting school…”
Thrive Healthy Fit Mom on Instagram: “ #messyhair #love #sleepingbeauties #mygirls #awww”
Thrive Healthy Fit Mom on Instagram: “Love tucking them in at night. #mybabygirls #sweetdreams #myloves #love#mybabies #sisters #sistersforever #beautysleep”
And this blue blanket...
Thrive Healthy Fit Mom on Instagram: “They love their Thrive K! V”
Thrive Healthy Fit Mom on Instagram: “My kids are weird lol #adventuresofBella #love #mykids #seriously”

Only yellow I could find was bean bags, stuffed turtle and play pillows...
Thrive Healthy Fit Mom on Instagram: “Celeste is tough like me! She cried for a few mins over her tag that came off her blankie and then attached herself to this turtle! She…”
Thrive Healthy Fit Mom on Instagram: “My family is why I work hard! I want to set the best example as a mom as I can for my girls! Dream big and your dreams become reality!…”
Thrive Healthy Fit Mom on Instagram: “Thought I was done cleaning.....We call Celeste the #destroyer every time she goes into a room she dumps ALL of the bins and then plays!…”
Thrive Healthy Fit Mom on Instagram: “Who is #DUOing it with their Thrive Experience?”
Bag for comparison, from link above...
View attachment 150138
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upload_2018-10-8_23-23-50.png

Thrive Healthy Fit Mom on Instagram: “Celeste is tough like me! She cried for a few mins over her tag that came off her blankie and then attached herself to this turtle! She…”

upload_2018-10-8_23-24-33.png

Thrive Healthy Fit Mom on Instagram: “My family is why I work hard! I want to set the best example as a mom as I can for my girls! Dream big and your dreams become reality!…”

upload_2018-10-8_23-25-16.png

Thrive Healthy Fit Mom on Instagram: “Thought I was done cleaning.....We call Celeste the #destroyer every time she goes into a room she dumps ALL of the bins and then plays!…”
upload_2018-10-8_23-26-23.png


Thrive Healthy Fit Mom on Instagram: “Who is #DUOing it with their Thrive Experience?”
 
Best of What's Around said:
As several attorneys have pointed out already, if the evidence we have now in the public domain were the ONLY evidence ever available going into trial, an excellent case can be made that there is enough evidence to successfully prosecute CW of the murders of his children beyond a reasonable doubt. IMO there are cases that have been won on less. Scott Peterson comes most immediately to mind.
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Precisely. SP could not definitively be connected to dumping the body, though it was certain he had. He didn't confess to any part of it. Yet he was convicted (and still has supporters :rolleyes:).

I would absolutely be confident in getting a conviction on all 9 counts in this case. I am obviously not the one prosecuting this (I wish!) but I am confident for him.

Also - on another point: when I was a case manager for NCMEC, I absolutely followed these boards on my missing cases, so I most definitely would be following if I were CW's defense team.
 
MassGuy said:
So last night I sucked it up and read Nick van der Leek’s second “book” on this case, “TWO FACE: BENEATH THE OIL.”

After reading his first “book,” I had set a pretty low bar as far as expectations go. Amazingly, this one set the bar for the inevitable third book, right around ground level.

Imagine that one of us, someone intimately familiar with the case, was to take LSD and then attempt to write a book. It would likely be far more coherent, and relevant, than the pointless drivel that this guy just produced.

Considering this crime happened less than two months ago, and this guy is already profiting from it, this is literally capitalism at its worst.

But I digress.

Our esteemed, “best selling author,” opens once again with a premeditated scenario. Shanann returns home from her trip, and enters the house, where she is immediately attacked. He describes CW using Bella’s pillowcase to form a type of lasso (referring to ligature strangulation), which he uses to strangle her.

He moves on to discuss the area in which CW grew up, an economically downtrodden town in North Carolina. The point here, is to illustrate that he came from nothing.

The “author’ discusses identity, and how important it is to us. He describes his own “existential crisis,” and how a life coach convinced him to change careers and become an author (possibly the worst advice ever given to any person, in the history of humanity).

He recounts a phone call from a producer at HLN. Basically, she was sussing him out, trying to figure out what inside information he had and who his sources were (none and none).

He talks about how hopeful he was that this could lead to him being interviewed, and how that could positively affect his “book” sales. After the 20 minute phone conversation, in which the producer apparently took no notes (who would), she basically told him “thanks, but no thanks.”

He then attacks the Thayers, who had the gaul to leave a message on his blog page demanding he remove a photo that NT took, that appeared on the cover of the first book. He touches on the legalities of him doing so, and seems to hold a grudge against them for complaining.

I’m not going to go into it, but he devoted an inordinate amount of time discussing what he sees as similarities between the Watts’ and the Thayers (I genuinely hope they sue him).

He goes after Thrive again, going as far as to make the (ridiculous) assertion that Shanann’s Facebook page is still up, in order to promote the company.

He spends a good portion of the “book” on something relatively insignificant, that damn Santa video. He talks about how contrived it was, and how it is a contradiction of the image SW was trying to convey.

A recurring theme throughout, is the loss of CW’s identity in the shadow of Shanann, and how he killed his family in order to reclaim it.

The “author” makes a (rare) good point when he discusses CW’s chance of getting away with the crime, saying that the video evidence from his neighbor’s surveillance camera, all but guaranteed his discovery.

He raises the insane notion that CW grilling on the night in question, was an effort to hide unpleasant smells, possibly from chemicals. The assertion here is that the kids were already dead at this point.

He closes by discussing other cases, offers ridiculous ideas about symbolism, and delves into pointless discussion about Anadarko.

He adds: “If there is a silver linish shimmering somewhere on this giant oil cloud, it’s the fact that this case-grotesque as it is - also reveals the nature of the world to ourselves.” [How incredibly deep]

Some silver lining...

My silver lining lining is that I just wasted 45 minutes reading complete nonsense. And it’s over.
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Thanks for saving me the trouble!

The one thing he says that sparks my interest a bit is something I've touched on somewhat in my unprofessional theories of identity annihilation.

Super not professional but what I've seen with these family annihilators over and over is that they often have sort of shadow personalities. They're either very quiet introverts, sometimes even antisocial, or they're generically perfect like some cheesy Hallmark movie. They either have little personality or they fake one they think people will like, ala scott Peterson.

Often they have mothers with super strong personalities. Sometimes even Cindy Anthony-style annihilating personalities. Their children are extensions of themselves and thus cannot be criticized but also can't have their own identities.

And then they sometimes marry women with strong or extroverted personalities - like Laci Peterson. And they fall into lives they believe they're supposed to want but they don't really. Because how can you know what you want when you've never had your own, independent identity?

And they continue living someone else's life.

But as they do they often simmer with dangerous resentment and disquiet and unease and frustration.

And then something happens to rip a tear in the facade. Like a new, unwanted child. Or a juicy affair. Or a terrible financial crisis.

And they're faced with this choice - break free from the non-person identity and live for themselves, but risk what they may feel is annihilating rage from loved ones who expected them to live a certain way and perform a certain way, and/or risk the mask slipping and everyone seeing them for who they actually are deep inside - someone with possibly narcissistic rage and a lack of empathy.

Or instead, they can annihilate their family and in the process, annihilate who they never were or who they don't want anyone to know they truly are. They can keep the mask on and not risk the rage of family and loved ones but they can still somehow be free of the shackles of the subsumed, shadow person identity.

I don't know. These are impressions I've gotten following these cases over the years. Looking at who these family annihilators are.

And as I've said before, looking at CW I see things that match - a generically good personality and a loving husband and devoted dad, but an introvert. Not that social. Not that special. Doesn't really stand out. Whose social life mostly consists of the male counter-parts to his very extroverted wife's close friends.

A seemingly happy enough, generically normal guy who hides some lascivious secrets and deep inside feels more like:

"New blood joins this Earth
And quickly he's subdued
Deprived of all his thoughts
The young man struggles on and on he's known
A vow unto his own
That never from this day
His will they'll take away

What I've felt, what I've known
Never shined through in what I've shown
Never be, never see
Won't see what might have been
What I've felt, what I've known
Never shined through in what I've shown
Never free, never me
So I dub thee "Unforgiven"

They dedicate their lives
To running all of his
He tries to please them all
This bitter man he is"

https://www.google.com/amp/s/genius.com/amp/Metallica-the-unforgiven-lyrics#ampf=undefined
 
DaisyK said:
So far the only posters I've seen seriously exploring CW's version of events are @Shekkiec and @DAdvocate JMO
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Well the second one hasn't been here for eons now and expressed a change of mind before departing, so I'm not sure they're really "in the mix" any more. I'll let my homie @Shekkiec speak for herself.
 
Moonracer said:
Last week, I was trying to put forth that I thought that particular video showed SW was under a strain. That was my thought, and I was shocked at how many people suddenly jumped all over me, put words in my mouth, and just made me feel unwelcome for saying she seemed strained and not her usual self (compared to other videos I saw). I didn't like seeing BW sprayed in the face. That brought down a lot of h8 on me.

According to TOS, on this thread, we are not allowed to "alert" on a particular poster more than twice, even if they are breaking TOS more than twice. If we do alert on the same poster more than twice, we get an automatic FIVE DAY timeout. I'm not knocking the moderation, it's not my website and the owner is allowed to make whatever rules she wants. But, who wants to risk saying their unpopular opinion if people can have a field day because they have only two alerts?

I didn't like the hectoring treatment I received just for thinking SW was under a strain as long as a year ago. I don't think it is wrong to point out that there is a lot of groupthink going on, and for all I know, this post will be taken down and I will be given one of those long time outs, although with my new plan of just dropping by every week or so after seeing the continuing behavior, I won't be aware of it. I'm not interested in echo chambers instead of discussions, anyway.
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IIRC you said that spraying video showed an undercurrent of restlessness in SW. I've never alerted on anyone's post. Just that what would that even mean, an"undercurrent of restlessness", spraying Bella like I spray my ferns? That just invites inquiries for clarification.
 
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MassGuy said:
Things can absolutely be deduced from those videos. But to say that they prove certain things, is where there becomes an issue.

The problem is the extent to which these videos prove certain things.

We can’t for instance say that they prove child abuse, verbal abuse, or provide any indication whatsoever that Shanann killed her kids.
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I've not said they prove anything. I see some concerning things. I've never claimed to have proof of anything.
 
MassGuy said:
I’ll let @Layla123 do her thing, but I’ll talk about the first guest on AB:

He’s a psychologist, and says that Shanann was clearly the dominant player in the relationship.

He buried things deep inside. He may have liked her dominance to a degree, but his darker side emerged later.
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Knock Knock, @MsBetsy , you pretty much posted this earlier. I'm impressed.

I've also held back posting my feeling on the life size checkers game video. I do not know either of them but I would have backed off CW sensing he was not wanting to participate and collecting and burying resentment/anger/whatever deep inside.
 
gitana1 said:
Thanks for saving me the trouble!

The one thing he says that sparks my interest a bit is something I've touched on somewhat in my unprofessional theories of identity annihilation.

Super not professional but what I've seen with these family annihilators over and over is that they often have sort of shadow personalities. They're either very quiet introverts, sometimes even antisocial, or they're generically perfect like some cheesy Hallmark movie. They either have little personality or they fake one they think people will like, ala scott Peterson.

Often they have mothers with super strong personalities. Sometimes even Cindy Anthony-style annihilating personalities. Their children are extensions of themselves and thus cannot be criticized but also can't have their own identities.

And then they sometimes marry women with strong or extroverted personalities - like Laci Peterson. And they fall into lives they believe they're supposed to want but they don't really. Because how can you know what you want when you've never had your own, independent identity?

And they continue living someone else's life.

But as they do they often simmer with dangerous resentment and disquiet and unease and frustration.

And then something happens to rip a tear on the facade. Like a new, unwanted child. Or a juicy affair. Or a terrible financial crisis.

And they're faced with this choice - break free from the non-person identity and live for themselves, but risk what they may feel is annihilating rage from loved ones who expected them to live a certain way and perform a certain way, and/or risk the mask slipping and everyone seeing them for who they actually are deep inside - someone with possibly narcissistic rage and a lack of empathy.

Or instead, they can annihilate their family and in the process, annihilate who they never were or who they don't want anyone to know they truly are. They can keep the mask on and not risk the rage of family and loved ones but they can still somehow be free of the shackles of the subsumed, shadow person identity.

I don't know. These are impressions I've gotten following these cases over the years. Looking at who these family annihilators are.

And as I've said before, looking at CW I see things that match - a generically good personality and a loving husband and devoted dad, but an introvert. Not that social. Not that special. Doesn't really stand out. Whose social life mostly consists of the male counter-parts to his very extroverted wife's close friends.

A seemingly happy enough, generically normal guy who hides some lascivious secrets and deep inside feels more like:

"New blood joins this Earth
And quickly he's subdued
Deprived of all his thoughts
The young man struggles on and on he's known
A vow unto his own
That never from this day
His will they'll take away

What I've felt, what I've known
Never shined through in what I've shown
Never be, never see
Won't see what might have been
What I've felt, what I've known
Never shined through in what I've shown
Never free, never me
So I dub thee "Unforgiven"

They dedicate their lives
To running all of his
He tries to please them all
This bitter man he is"

https://www.google.com/amp/s/genius.com/amp/Metallica-the-unforgiven-lyrics#ampf=undefined
Click to expand...
I absolutely agree. I thought the discussion of identity made a lot of sense, and is very relevant here.

It was one of the few good points that he made, and I found it thought provoking.
 
bonjoviblonde said:
Ok so if he manipulated the bodies to get into the tank, you feel it's more likely he killed them. And if he didn't, let's say the hole was larger and they fit in easily, then you still think it's possible SW could have killed them? It's not a factor for me at this point, but I do agree if he did manipulate their bodies into a small opening, it would push me even further to him being guilty.
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Absolutely! I think I would have zero doubt then.
 
flourish said:
I've not said they prove anything. I see some concerning things. I've never claimed to have proof of anything.
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The videos have been cited in the opinion that SW could have done this.

The implication is that they hold some weight as to who committed the crimes, as why else would they be brought up in the argument of a person who is “on the fence?”

If you are undecided, and point to the videos, you are saying that they provide evidence.

Not you specifically, but one who uses them for this purpose.
 
CeCe sounds just like my youngest at that age. Total mess maker. Always sneaking in the bathroom making "potions" with soaps and shampoos. I had to make sure everything was out of her reach. She was always full of energy and her first day of school some of the moms were crying and I said that I couldn't wait to go home and be able to read a book. LOL But once I got home, after about 10 minutes, I cried from missing her. They are both sweet precious girls and I think they look like both CW and SW. I can see them both in the girls little faces.
 
MerryB said:
Prosecution’s theory states C.W. killed his pregnant wife & daughters. The defense claims he killed his wife after she killed their daughters.
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So the two sides here are the Prosecution, who, based on the evidence they found, have accused CW of all 3 murders, and the Defense, who based on the word of the liar have accused one of his victims. <modsnip - rude, personalizing>
 
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