Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, and Liberty (Libby) German, 14/The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #85

[MsBetsy]

I believe that BG is a serial killer. Seeing his picture and hearing his voice on TV may have driven him into retirement, though.

I think you may be right. That's what they think happened with DeAngelo. When he had an altercation with a police officer, he never struck again in that area and started putting many years between attacks. This guy would be taking a huge risk if he strikes again. Jmo

 

[MsBetsy]

I am wondering what in this man prompted Libby to take his photo and start recording. I remember myself being young and nearly running into a garden-variety pervert on a bridge. What gave me the "danger" signal was not his face (he was far away) but the behavior (he hid behind a brick support).

What I want to say, if someone is far away from you, and you get this "danger" vibe, it is usually the person's behavior, and not the look. I wonder if the BG first approached the girls and walked by them, and then they saw him returning, for example. I don't have the feeling he was targeting them specifically, probably was on the prowl, looking for some random victim.

Apparently, in an earlier audio, the girls did mention something about a weird guy on the bridge, or on the trail, or something like that so it sounds like they were already aware of him. Jmo

 

[MsBetsy]

Hi Charlot123,

I don't know anything about the user issues with uploading the 23&me chip but rural Indiana should not matter when looking for a 2nd cousin or closer match. Most people have hundreds of second cousins that they don't even know and it is rare that those cousins all live in the same geographical area. Groups like Parabon and DNA Doe Project have developed their own tests so that they can upload the raw data to GedMatch. They would not be using 23&Me for the perp's DNA. The article linked above said that GedMatch has an average of 1800 new profiles uploaded a day. After LE announced the capture of the GSK the site saw a record surge of 5000 new uploads in one day. And what was really compelling to me was this:
"Within three years, the DNA of nearly every American of Northern European descent — the primary users of the site — will be identifiable through cousins in GEDmatch’s database, according to a study published on Thursday in the journal Science."
How an Unlikely Family History Website Transformed Cold Case Investigations

So, BridgeGuy's second cousins and other close relatives might not be on GedMatch YET. But if LE has good quality DNA, he has nowhere to hide. His familial DNA will reveal him sooner or later. But this is all speculative, of course, because we don't know how much DNA they have nor the quality of the sample. Nor if they have even tried to use a genealogical DNA approach.
MOO.

Currently, only 12 states have DNA familiar searching, and Indiana is not one of them, according to US News. Illinois and Louisiana are considering it. Although, as I mentioned before, they did pass a law recently that allows DNA testing to those accused of a felony, rather than convicted. Even if they waited until they were able to do a familiar search, it won't be helpful unless a relative has their DNA in the system, or website or whatever it is. It would be interesting to know how many people do this. I don't think it's a very high percentage at this point. But I do think more and more will consider doing it on the future. Jmo

 

[rainynights]

I am wondering what in this man prompted Libby to take his photo and start recording. I remember myself being young and nearly running into a garden-variety pervert on a bridge. What gave me the "danger" signal was not his face (he was far away) but the behavior (he hid behind a brick support).

What I want to say, if someone is far away from you, and you get this "danger" vibe, it is usually the person's behavior, and not the look. I wonder if the BG first approached the girls and walked by them, and then they saw him returning, for example. I don't have the feeling he was targeting them specifically, probably was on the prowl, looking for some random victim.

I kept wondering if this was some creep out for a stroll, but it wouldn't make sense to me, as one would think he wouldn't necessarily have a weapon on him if that was the case, IMO. But when I envision a situation where he walked by them initially (and saw these two girls being vulnerable in his eyes and an easy target), I started thinking that it would be plausible for him to decide to go back to his vehicle (we don't know if he had one, just speculating), in order to retrieve a weapon (maybe a gun?) that he may have already had stowed somewhere, like a glovebox. Pure speculation. Jmo

 

[LuminiousVisions]

I think LE actually knows well who the killer is, has for a long time, and just needs that one solid piece of evidence to nail him. It very well could be DNA. <modsnip - baiting>

I agree that law enforcement has known for a very long time
who BG (bridge guy) is but had a challenging time with the evidence. Also, connecting him with other murders too.

This will be solved for sure.

 

[TheVisual]

I agree that law enforcement has known for a very long time
who BG (bridge guy) is but had a challenging time with the evidence. Also, connecting him with other murders too.

This will be solved for sure.

Then why would they continue to take swabs as close as this past April? And I hope WS will open up the Image Thread for usage and comment.

 

[Betty P]

I agree that law enforcement has known for a very long time
who BG (bridge guy) is but had a challenging time with the evidence. Also, connecting him with other murders too.

This will be solved for sure.

Looking back on the mistakes made in Jacob Wetterling's case and others similar, I don't think they have a suspect in mind. JMO, most likely it's someone they've already looked at or have been told about and don't realize it's someone they should focus on. When so many tips come in and they focus on following up on every tip, it can divert LE's attention from doing a deep dive into investigating suspects based on timeline and evidence at hand. In the rush to follow up on so many tips, they may lose some focus on suspects that should be ringing alarm bells. JMO, it can be a problem of having too many tips, too many interviews, sort of information overload.

I hope they're going back to fully investigate similar, but lesser crimes and reports in the region. This guy may not have killed anyone before Libby & Abby, but he's probably molested, tried to abduct, stalked or exposed himself to kids. He may be someone who has been seen cruising around elementary and middle schools, etc.

 

[Betty P]

Then why would they continue to take swabs as close as this past April? And I hope WS will open up the Image Thread for usage and comment.

Agree, I don't think Indiana is fully on board yet with using familial DNA to solve cases. Some states are balking at it for their own reasons - fear of lawsuits, concern for privacy, etc. It can be a sword that cuts both ways, helping to solve a lot of different types of crimes, but sometimes catching perps they don't necessarily want to catch.

 

[NervousNellie]

Apologies if it has already been posted; I'm on lunch break so just scanned the last couple pages. Has anyone heard about the "Missing girl found inside Semi in KY"? The headline says Michigan girl and to be clear they are NOT talking about Jayme Closs. Missing Michigan girl found inside semi in Kentucky

I originally saw this article via a link from FB (Missing Pieces Network) and it was suggested this guy looks like BG. Definitely has the same nose.

 

[Mellowmelly]

Apologies if it has already been posted; I'm on lunch break so just scanned the last couple pages. Has anyone heard about the "Missing girl found inside Semi in KY"? The headline says Michigan girl and to be clear they are NOT talking about Jayme Closs. Missing Michigan girl found inside semi in Kentucky

I originally saw this article via a link from FB (Missing Pieces Network) and it was suggested this guy looks like BG. Definitely has the same nose.

Thank god the girl was found alive! I can see the similarities of this man and the BG. Is KY far from Delphi ?

 

[sleuther0192837465]

The April Tinsley case in Ft. Wayne, IN was solved by using DNA samples from the crimes & genealogy. Being it’s the same state, I don’t see why LE in Delphi would not use the same testing to solve Libby & Abby’s case. UNLESS the DNA from the girls case is not a good sample/contaminated OR there is none. MOO

 

[NervousNellie]

Thank god the girl was found alive! I can see the similarities of this man and the BG. Is KY far from Delphi ?

This guy was picked up about 5 or 6 hours south of Delphi, but given that he is driving a semi, distance is probably not a consideration - whether his travels take him through Delphi is something to look into, IMO.

 

[Lass from Yorkshire]

Apologies if it has already been posted; I'm on lunch break so just scanned the last couple pages. Has anyone heard about the "Missing girl found inside Semi in KY"? The headline says Michigan girl and to be clear they are NOT talking about Jayme Closs. Missing Michigan girl found inside semi in Kentucky

I originally saw this article via a link from FB (Missing Pieces Network) and it was suggested this guy looks like BG. Definitely has the same nose.

Oh my gosh. The likeness hits you.

 

[Mellowmelly]

This guy was picked up about 5 or 6 hours south of Delphi, but given that he is driving a semi, distance is probably not a consideration - whether his travels take him through Delphi is something to look into, IMO.

Yes if he’s a long distance lorry driver, I agree, distance would mean nothing. I hope he will be DNA tested.

 

[Jax49]

He's matches size of BG at 5'8", 200 lbs per the jail site.

"The person depicted in the composite sketch is described as a White male between 5'6" and 5'10", weighing 180 to 220 pounds, with reddish brown hair."

 

[Space Goddess]

Why would the killer(s) leave her phone there? That move seems very arrogant.

 

[Jax49]

Why would the killer(s) leave her phone there? That move seems very arrogant.

Welcome to WS's.

Possibilities - didn't know it existed, couldn't find it or was afraid it could be used to track him. moo

 

[Space Goddess]

LE is only looking for one killer. They've been quoted numerous times stating that it was one man who approached the girls and forced them off the trail.

The Unsolved Delphi Murders: What Happened to Indiana Teens Libby German and Abby Williams?

I believe they are wrong. There were more than one of them. I also believe they were not killed in that area but brought back later.

Looking at the weather history it was approximately 11 degrees Celsius when the attack happened so it wasn’t bitterly cold at the time. In Abigail’s last Snapchat photo you can see she isn’t wearing winter layers of clothing because it was warmer than usual that tragic day.

He wore layers to hide himself. We are all looking for a plump limpy guy. No. He is tall and thin. He is making himself look shorter.

 

[Gardener1850]

Currently, only 12 states have DNA familiar searching, and Indiana is not one of them, according to US News. Illinois and Louisiana are considering it. Although, as I mentioned before, they did pass a law recently that allows DNA testing to those accused of a felony, rather than convicted. Even if they waited until they were able to do a familiar search, it won't be helpful unless a relative has their DNA in the system, or website or whatever it is. It would be interesting to know how many people do this. I don't think it's a very high percentage at this point. But I do think more and more will consider doing it on the future. Jmo

You are probably right. I'm not an expert on the different laws from state to state. But my impression is that the laws in some places may be specific only to searching the criminal DNA databases for familial matches-- usually they are looking for closer matches like father/brother in those types of searches. What Parabon and DDN are doing are very recent innovations and may not fall under the existing laws in some states. The number of DNA markers they use for genealogical searches is so much higher than what LE normally records from perps for their DNA databases that DDP has to have new tests done for the sequencing. They can't use a previous DNA test that was run for the criminal database. Like I said, I'm not a legal expert by any means (and I just know a tiny amount about the genealogical DNA methods from reading here) but I think it is possible those laws about familial DNA searches only cover the criminal databases maintained by LE. I also think there may be a loophole in some jurisdictions that most LE are not aware of yet. The genealogical databases like GEDMatch are voluntary and public as opposed to the criminal DNA databases where the DNA is placed there by legal requirement upon arrest and only available to LE. Given some info, technically any knowledgeable citizen could do a genealogical DNA search and then submit a "tip" to LE of who they think the perp was. LE still has to collect DNA and verify it like they did with the GSK. I do hope they find a way to do this with Abby and Libby's case (assuming they have viable DNA available). It would be a shame if existing laws made it impossible. MOO.

 

[Quill]

The April Tinsley case in Ft. Wayne, IN was solved by using DNA samples from the crimes & genealogy. Being it’s the same state, I don’t see why LE in Delphi would not use the same testing to solve Libby & Abby’s case. UNLESS the DNA from the girls case is not a good sample/contaminated OR there is none. MOO

First time poster on this thread here. Jumping in to comment on the familial DNA aspect of solving crimes. I am not familiar with the Tinsley case, but the main problem state to state with using familial DNA in a CODIS type program is getting the state government on board to not only approve it, but also to spend the money on the new computer program to run the DNA, as well as pay the crime lab techs. This is a totally different animal from using DNA detectives to search genealogy sites for matches, which needs no state approval.

The Knock Knock podcast has a good episode detailing the hurdles faced in getting states on board. They do a great job of getting deep into this technology and what is involved. My state does not yet use it and with an already backlogged crime lab with overworked and underpaid workers, I fear it will be a long time in coming.

Simon and Jason of Knock Knock were pushing our state (Mississippi) to approve this new tool for our crime lab in order to solve the decades old murder of their grandmother. An arrest was made just a couple of weeks ago without aid of this program, although I am wondering how they did track him down.