AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot to death, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #3

[oviedo]

In the United States you need to show probable cause for a search warrant to obtain someone's DNA. That is, you need to prove to a judge that you have probable cause that you will retrieve evidence that a crime has been committed. You cannot just demand random people give their DNA over. Many states now require anyone charged with a felony, even if they are not convicted, provide a DNA sample for CODIS so the database is much larger and growing all the time.

Can you volunteer ? I know you can on TV not sure if that is real life - I’ve never understood the need for a search warrant at a crime scene but it doesn’t look like they had to here at the Closs home but I’ve read other cases where they had to get a warrant even when there was a dead body and 911 was called

 

[Whiskers16]

Stop the discussion about 1st amendment and community colleges. This discussion is not doing any service to the victims in this case. Thank you.

 

[Angleterre]

Yes I understand this and respectfully agree but in the U.K. it’s slightly different in as much as if you have reasonable cause to suspect involvement ( no matter how minor) and it’s a mass screen, LE will look at those who refuse and the slightest inklin backed by intelligence is enough to get a judge to mandate a sample be provided. And in any event, most people volunteer anyway as they have nothing to hide and the ends justify the means

And we automatically take DNA for every person arrested no matter what . If they are ultimately not convicted of an offence, they can ask that their DNA be removed from the database but this is a rare event .

 

[doyoulovemepfg]

Maybe they had Alexa or whatever and they yelled at it to call 911. That would explain the yelling in the background and knowing the call was made from the house. If it was the parents calling as Jayme was going out the door, that may have given them a few extra minutes to get away before police arrive.
Another option is Jayme had the emergency alert activated on her phone, which sends out the gps coordinates and it may call 911. I know it calls my emergency contacts. If that’s the case it seems like she would have had a stalker or something make her prepared although I think it’s a nice feature to enable just in case. I had to put my home address in and I’m supposed to update it if I’m in another location (I think, it’s been awhile).

All IMO.

This could definitely have been what happened. I was in a serious car accident recently and couldn't get to my phone and I yelled "Siri call 911" and police/paramedics were there in five minutes. Not sure how well this would work in a rural area like Barron, but it worked in the larger town I live in.

 

[rosesfromangels]

And really, unless the perp is a third grader they know this too...

Yet like a moth to a light bulb, they are drawn by some mesmerizing force seemingly beyond their control...

 

[Quill]

The temp at night there was in the 30’s? Going through water would be horrible.

Good point. However, if a person prepared well it could be done. But who says they even had to go through water, if they even went that way?

 

[human]

I'm still suspicious of a certain registered sex offender in the area ....the pedophile who was civilly committed beyond his sentence. If you read transcripts, they wanted to keep him longer. I imagine someone like that doesn't change and won't leave witnesses behind. Lives less than 2 miles away from crime scene.

IMO, the civilly committed are scary scary scary.

 

[MKZoo]

Even if the media is barred from the Town Hall meeting, I think we'll know what was said soon enough. If there aren't local reporters attending in their capacity as citizens of the county, some other citizen will give the media a breakdown. In cases like this you can always find someone who will speak to reporters. Imo.

I am curious to hear the outcome. I can't tell if this is a meeting to glean information from the public or if its purpose is more along the lines of hand-holding for a traumatized community. Probably both, I guess. Jmo.

 

[EllaMae]

Less than 4 minutes? Yikes! Hard to put these pieces of info into a relatable sequence ....911 call came from the house correct? Background noise yelling or some kind of a disturbance? Parents dead? How the heck did they vanish and take Jayme along with them in less than 4 minutes? Someone ended the call in some way and then took off. In a vehicle? On foot? I'm stunned.

I am putting that time frame into perspective. I leave my bedroom at 6:55 every morning. I walk through my house to my front door, walk out and lock it,walk to my car, unlock it, climb in, put my purse and lunch in the passenger seat, start the car and pull out. Then I travel 3-4 miles to the interstate. If I don't get stopped by a light I'm driving up the entrance ramp by 7:00 AM. And there is plenty of morning traffic to deal with also.
The point I'm making is that 4 minutes is plenty of time, in the dead of the night,to get far enough away from the house to escape being seen by police...especially going in the opposite direction. No traffic to deal with, just jump in the car and pull out on the road and drive steadily away.

 

[doyoulovemepfg]

I am putting that time frame into perspective. I leave my bedroom at 6:55 every morning. I walk through my house to my front door, walk out and lock it,walk to my car, unlock it, climb in, put my purse and lunch in the passenger seat, start the car and pull out. Then I travel 3-4 miles to the interstate. If I don't get stopped by a light I'm driving up the entrance ramp by 7:00 AM. And there is plenty of morning traffic to deal with also.
The point I'm making is that 4 minutes is plenty of time, in the dead of the night,to get far enough away from the house to escape being seen by police...especially going in the opposite direction. No traffic to deal with, just jump in the car and pull out on the road and drive steadily away.

I'm somewhat familiar with this area (drive through it to visit relatives in MN) and know FOR A FACT that they could be 6-7 miles up Hwy 8 by the time police showed up, and possibly into MSP in under an hour. Another possibility is that they could've taken I-35 to Duluth which takes you all the way up to 61 leading to Ontario.

 

[human]

Good point. However, if a person prepared well it could be done. But who says they even had to go through water, if they even went that way?

I was responding to your statement that rivers and creeks are considered ATV playgrounds where you live.

 

[PommyMommy]

Im a little bothered that a minority of WS’s are showing concern about violating Amendments rights Re: barring of the media at the Community meeting AND that if a mass DNA screening were to be held and they refused to ‘partake’ as is their right, that they express concern that because of the refusal, LE may well start to look into them more because of their refusal! Firstly, atm its a hypothetical situation but secondly and IMO far more important is the fact that there is a young girls life at stake here and no violation is that important when compared to Jayme life .
I wouldn’t give a rats if I refused a DNA screen and LE looked into me because of this if I’ve nothing to hide and it helps to save a life !
I don’t mean to be disrespectful to anybody on this forum but it does get me feeling a little frustrated when we know what’s at stake here . All MOO!

This post lands at random ( to pinch the admins phraseology).

Just jumping off your post, Angleterre. I'm a little baffled why we're discussing a community college and first amendment rights at all. Two people were brutally murdered in this small community and a 13-year-old child is missing. The sheriff scheduled a town hall meeting for Barron residents to have a dialogue about how the community is coping and to provide victim assistance to family, friends and residents who are grieving and under tremendous stress. What is so nefarious here?

The Sheriff is concerned about his citizens and wants to address the community without a media circus. I don’t blame him. The school superintendent has been overwhelmed with requests for interviews and her staff has been bothered to the point that they’re having trouble doing their jobs and it’s affecting the students in the district. He also said that these distractions take away from the focus of the investigation which is to find Jayme.

A town hall meeting in this situation is not at all unusual. They are commonly held across the country after tragic events like the Parkland School shooting, for example. This community needs to grieve and pull together to get through this, and they need all the help they can get. This is not some game that law enforcement is playing with the media. MOO

 

[Alethea]

Can you volunteer ? I know you can on TV not sure if you that is real life - I’ve never understood the need for a search warrant at a crime scene but it doesn’t look like they had to here at the Closs home but I’ve read other cases where they had to get a warrant even when there was a dead body and 911 was called

Sure, you can provide a sample voluntarily. LE may ask people who they interview to provide a sample voluntarily. Many people do agree and aim to eliminate themselves as a suspect immediately so LE can move on with their investigations. Plus many people who are on probation or are registered sex offenders may have a condition of their release that they agree to give a sample when asked and will allow warrantless searches of their homes.

Police are allowed to enter a residence under exigent circumstances. If there's reason to believe there's a risk of imminent harm or a crime is being committed. So if there's a 911 call, they can break down the door and enter without a warrant. After the emergency has passed, they would need either permission or a warrant to conduct a further search of things that were not in plain view. When there's an obvious crime scene, it's very easy to get a warrant. LE wants to make sure they follow all of the laws and guidance stemming from 4th amendment case law so they don't later jeopardize a prosecution. The last thing they want is to have evidence thrown out by a defense lawyer because it was collected improperly.

 

[zecats]

I am putting that time frame into perspective. I leave my bedroom at 6:55 every morning. I walk through my house to my front door, walk out and lock it,walk to my car, unlock it, climb in, put my purse and lunch in the passenger seat, start the car and pull out. Then I travel 3-4 miles to the interstate. If I don't get stopped by a light I'm driving up the entrance ramp by 7:00 AM. And there is plenty of morning traffic to deal with also.
The point I'm making is that 4 minutes is plenty of time, in the dead of the night,to get far enough away from the house to escape being seen by police...especially going in the opposite direction. No traffic to deal with, just jump in the car and pull out on the road and drive steadily away.

I respect that point of view and I know I often think timing will take longer than it actually does. Seems, though, that after killing 2 people, trying to get a girl (willingly or unwillingly) out of the house and into a car, knowing that the phone was used (probably) and cops might be on the way, and maybe not knowing which way to drive to go wherever (if not a local)...that would mess up the timing in my mind. All hypotheticals and possibilities of course. Maybe perp was a smooth operator and not ruffled by any of those things. jmo

 

[Angleterre]

Just jumping off your post, Angleterre. I'm a little baffled why we're discussing a community college and first amendment rights at all. Two people were brutally murdered in this small community and a 13-year-old child is missing. The sheriff scheduled a town hall meeting for Barron residents to have a dialogue about how the community is coping and to provide victim assistance to family, friends and residents who are grieving and under tremendous stress. What is so nefarious here?

The Sheriff is concerned about his citizens and wants to address the community without a media circus. I don’t blame him. The school superintendent has been overwhelmed with requests for interviews and her staff has been bothered to the point that they’re having trouble doing their jobs and it’s affecting the students in the district. He also said that these distractions take away from the focus of the investigation which is to find Jayme.

A town hall meeting in this situation is not at all unusual. They are commonly held across the country after tragic events like the Parkland School shooting, for example. This community needs to grieve and pull together to get through this, and they need all the help they can get. This is not some game that law enforcement is playing with the media. MOO

Your points made are exactly mine too ! None of this is important when we consider that a young girls life is at stake here .

 

[katydid23]

Sikora Prime Painting and Washing, LLC

They had their home repainted recently, perhaps they paid for that, roofing, etc.

OHHHH, they had painters and roofers, etc coming to their home? Maybe one of the workers took a liking to the young girl?

 

[human]

I forget where it was. Oregon or Washington where that Gaeta murdered the little girl.

Males were asked to give Dna. Same with Jessica Ridgway in Colorado

 

[WillenFan21]

Sikora Prime Painting and Washing, LLC

They had their home repainted recently, perhaps they paid for that, roofing, etc.

That post/picture is from 2016. I doubt its relevant to what happened considering the time frame.

 

[PinkPrincessPoop]

I think people are simply frustrated if they think LE is not being transparent. But the truth is, we don't know what's happening at that meeting. They may not know anymore than what LE is telling the public.

 

[Alethea]

Yes I understand this and respectfully agree but in the U.K. it’s slightly different in as much as if you have reasonable cause to suspect involvement ( no matter how minor) and it’s a mass screen, LE will look at those who refuse and the slightest inklin backed by intelligence is enough to get a judge to mandate a sample be provided. And in any event, most people volunteer anyway as they have nothing to hide and the ends justify the means

Right but this is the United States and we have 200 years of case law regarding our Bill of Rights that must be followed. Privacy and protection from state intrusion are founding principles in this country. When LE has any evidence that someone may be involved with a crime, it is easy to get a warrant to conduct a search. LE often asks people who are interviewed to voluntarily submit samples and they often do. LE can also use evidence from interviews to support their warrant for suspects who do not wish to cooperate.

But any type of mass collection is patently illegal. We have had recent Supreme Court cases striking down the mass collection of even metadata. Certainly any attempt at mass collection of DNA would be ruled unconstitutional. I do not think it is fair to characterize people who believe in and support their constitutional rights as somehow suspicious.