AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #11

[_Jane_Doe_]

Re: the Radar Online link

Jayme Closs Case Break: Police Receive Chilling Tip Conversation With Strange Man
Missing Jayme Closs Case Break: Police Receive Chilling Tip Conversation With Strange Man

I have mixed feelings about Radar Online... although I don’t think I’ve ever seen an example of them just making stuff up, I’ve seen many examples of stories that I would consider an unsubstantiated claim and this is one of those times. I just found that this story was told pretty much verbatim in a Facebook group that wouldn’t be considered legit. While that verifies that Radar Online accurately reported the sources story, the story itself should be considered unverified.

Oh God, this could have very well been me hahaha. Not literally of course, but I was at a pub last night and got talking to a bloke, and the first thing I said to him was about the Jayme Closs case. Then I started drawing parallels to other cases like I was bloody Rainman lolz, talking about bodies and dump sites.

He must have thought I was a lunatic.

 

[JerseyWasHome2]

i don't think she would resist. She has just watched her parents murdered in cold blood. she is in complete shock. they could, however, have put her in the trunk - or just held a gun to her head and told her she was next if she tried to get away.

Also, one thing to remember about the youth today - they are far more savvy about gun violence at a young age then we ever were. . they are taught in school active shooter drills...and learn to be VERY afraid of guns...my guess would be that Jayme would go along with ANYTHING because of her absolutely heinous experience of watching her parents killed...and her knowledge of the danger of firearms through school drills and education. such is the world in which we live....sigh

And the horrible experience Elizabeth Smart went through! Just re-read a synopsis of her case. Apparently police were alerted to her presence in public a few times with her abductor (people who thought they recognized her with him) and she was too paralyzed to speak up, even once saying she wasn't who they thought she was, for fear of the repercussion should the police have not taken her away from her abductor. Unbelievable. Horrific. Once she was separated from him, she was able to speak up and was rescued. So yes, I can certainly see a teen or anyone, for that matter, after seeing their parents slaughtered, walking away quietly if need be.

 

[Mom24]

Hm so she’s shot outside in the cold at such a late hour? How come? Why was she outside? Why was dad answering the door then when he was gunned down?

I had wondered if dad answered the door, was shot, intruder is banging through the house looking for mom, he attacks mom and JC runs out and intruder follows and shoot and wounds her. That would explain why it sounded like the shots were someone shooting something outside.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Edit- Tricia said RadarOnline is now allowed, not Daily Mail...sorry!

I didn't even notice that.

 

[msmamanana]

I thought Mark Fuhrman did some excellent work on the JonBenet Ramsey case. It's not very well known, but it's sound.

A few thoughts about Denise being the targeted victim:
- Why would a perp. wait so late at night to attack if James was working an evening shift? Could the perp. have been in the house as soon as it was nightfall and we haven't considered this seriously? Could perp. have been drinking or using drugs and had no schedule for anything?
-The timeline we think may be in place for the commission of the crimes of home invasion and two assaults may be earlier. James's coming home might have been when the coup de grace' of death was delivered Denise, and also James.
- What the above suggests to me is that if there was one lone perp., Jayme may have had time to run out of the house, get out through a window, almost anything if she wasn't restrained.

- The main thing that concerns me is how Jayme is a mini Denise. They have the closest mother- daughter likeness I've seen in a long time even with the age and weight difference.
IMO, based on principles of psychology, this resemblance would probably make Jayme more of a target for sexual assault, torture, and abduction than a daughter with dark short hair or other features that didn't look so much like her mom's.

Mark's theory is sound. We've said all along it made no sense to kill two adults to abduct a child who was in so many activities. I never could get it to fit well. But if Denise was the targeted victim in the household, it absolutely does fit and once again, the case in CT of the Dr. William Petit daughters and mother, who were carbon copies of each other, comes back to light very strongly. I posted about the way that case keeps coming to mind in part #6 of this discussion.. I'm sure most people know or can find out that it was a targeted home invasion for sexual assault of the female family members. A secondary motive was the possibility that there was a great deal of money in the bank. There wasn't.

I tend to believe Jayme is deceased, but so many people are doing their best to find her, it's amazing. I want to thank everyone who participated in the search today, and also thanks to those who live far away like I do, but who have prayed and thought of her and the searchers' welfare all day.

I wondered if it was someone who's advances Denise rejected. You explained my thinking very well.

 

[buggiegirl]

I believe there was no time to kill Jayme because the 911 call was made. She had seen the perp/s and could make an identification so she was taken out of the home to be dealt with later. I think the need to leave in a hurry is the only reason she wasn't killed right then. And I would be shocked if she is still alive at this point.

But I really,really hope she is.

Takes less time to shoot a person in the head than it does to wrestle them into a car and drive away.

 

[Gardener1850]

If Denise was found dead in a bathroom why are police tight lipped on this detail? Sure it hampers the investigation is the standard reply but I’m wondering *how* does it / could it?

I was wondering if she may have been found elsewhere? Perhaps outside?

LE have said she was found elsewhere in the house. The reason they don't want to let all the details out is at some point they might get a false confession. Yes, it's hard to wrap our minds around it but there are people that see all this publicity and decide they want the notoriety of being the perp so they decide to go to the police and confess. Let's say Denise wasn't killed in the bathroom. Lets say she was actually found in Jayme's bedroom as if she was protecting her. Well at this point if someone falsely confesses they will make up a story about how they shot her while she hid in the bathroom. And police would know right away that this person was not at the scene. It's even possible the false bathroom detail was leaked to a gossip rag like Radar so that LE would easily know if someone was giving a false confession. Now lets say she really was shot in the bathroom and that detail was unintentionally leaked by a LE source. Well a false confessor might say "bathroom" and be correct but still doesn't know where on the body Denise was shot nor how many times she was shot. LE will try to keep the details under wraps as much as possible so when the real perp is interviewed, even if he lies and says he doesn't know anything about the crime scene if he slips up and comments on some detail that hasn't been released they can nail him on that. JMO.

 

[Mollyandme]

Can someone enlighten me as to why LE divulging the location of the wife's body may compromise their investigation, but releasing the location of the husband's body won't?

maybe in case its something only the killer knows, so LE is holding it close to their chest in case of a confession and for interrogation purposes? I'm sure there are other reasons but thats the first one that comes to mind

 

[msmamanana]

The police asked for any sightings of the vehicles in the two weeks preceding the murder. Wonder if this is why.

That sounds normal to see if they were stalking the family. Or just someone new in the area.

 

[Echo44]

I would have thought he would take a gun with him, if he did answer the door?

I have guns strategically placed throught my home , especially at all entrances and exits, and in my out buildings.

I have motion sensors all over my property. They all have different tones so I know where there might be a problem before anything happens.

Also I have special doors that cannot be shot through, even with a shotgun. It's a 2 edged sword as I can't shoot through on the inside either. Also I would never open my door without a gun, especially at that hour, even if it was a neighbor.

My town has a population of 800. Maybe we are more paranoid out here than a bigger town.

All I know is I am as prepared as I can be.

 

[_Jane_Doe_]

A person in the FB group was the source/tip for this story.

Lolz yes, I know this wasn't me. I certainly don't fit the description.

 

[thesnowflakesparkles]

It used to make me mad, but then I just took stock of why I do what I do here.

Heavens no. She repeated it like they were her own thoughts. Made me mad initially, but then, it also forced me to take a long hard look at why I do what I do here. If I'm here to gain any kind of personal credit or pats on the back, then I'm here for the wrong reasons. It should ALWAYS be about the victims.

I didn't think my opinion of Nancy Grace could get any lower. I was wrong. That is a good way of looking at it though, ultimately all the "sleuthing" in the world doesn't mean anything compared to what happened to the victims and their families.

 

[BlinkOfAnI]

LE have said she was found elsewhere in the house. The reason they don't want to let all the details out is at some point they might get a false confession. Yes, it's hard to wrap our minds around it but there are people that see all this publicity and decide they want the notoriety of being the perp so they decide to go to the police and confess. Let's say Denise wasn't killed in the bathroom. Lets say she was actually found in Jayme's bedroom as if she was protecting her. Well at this point if someone falsely confesses they will make up a story about how they shot her while she hid in the bathroom. And police would know right away that this person was not at the scene. It's even possible the false bathroom detail was leaked to a gossip rag like Radar so that LE would easily know if someone was giving a false confession. Now lets say she really was shot in the bathroom and that detail was unintentionally leaked by a LE source. Well a false confessor might say "bathroom" and be correct but still doesn't know where on the body Denise was shot nor how many times she was shot. LE will try to keep the details under wraps as much as possible so when the real perp is interviewed, even if he lies and says he doesn't know anything about the crime scene if he slips up and comments on some detail that hasn't been released they can nail him on that. JMO.

Excellent point. TY

 

[MsBetsy]

Thank you for this, very much appreciated, Ocean Blue Eyes!

For some reason, I never felt in my heart that Jayme was the target. I teetered between it being one of the parents targeted or a home invasion like the Groene's.

Excellent summary, and I do think he is correct. In one of the articles, I believe it was said that the mother suffered before she passed away, where as the father, it appeared to be instant or fast.

I also believe Jayme is no longer with us, but with her parents in heaven. If she is still alive, I fear for her emotional health, going through such a traumatic event so young in her life- she's supposed to be worrying about boys, dance, school, sports, make up, fun times with friends- not dealing with the loss of her parents, especially in such a brutal and cold hearted manner! If she is alive, in my opinion only, she's going to need long term counseling, like any of us would at that age. That poor girl, my heart just aches for her. I pray no one is torturing or hurting her, if she is still alive.

Still trying to catch up with this fast moving thread. Where was it said that Denise suffered before she died and James was killed instantly? Is this new?

 

[Wagtales10]

I have guns strategically placed throught my home , especially at all entrances and exits, and in my out buildings.

I have motion sensors all over my property. They all have different tones so I know where there might be a problem before anything happens.

Also I have special doors that cannot be shot through, even with a shotgun. It's a 2 edged sword as I can't shoot through on the inside either. Also I would never open my door without a gun, especially at that hour, even if it was a neighbor.

My town has a population of 800. Maybe we are more paranoid out here than a bigger town.

All I know is I am as prepared as I can be.

honest question, no snark

Do you feel all that is warrented? Does all that seem a bit overkill (no pun intended)? Especially in a town of 800?

Genuinly curious becaus it sounds like you built a bunker preparing for war or are terrified of people in town?

 

[Rallibella]

Lolz yes, I know this wasn't me. I certainly don't fit the description.

Oh, I know! I just was commenting in terms of what Radar's source was.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Can someone enlighten me as to why LE divulging the location of the wife's body may compromise their investigation, but releasing the location of the husband's body won't?

We don't know. But there are a number of possibilities, imo. Let's say that Denise did barricade herself in the bathroom with her cell phone...it's very possible that LE initially didn't want that info divulged because the suspect may not have known she called 911. Something like that could, potentially, give LE a jump trying to catch them.

Not saying that's what happened, just saying there could be any number of logical reasons LE decides not to divulge info.

 

[Inthedetails]

maybe in case its something only the killer knows, so LE is holding it close to their chest in case of a confession and for interrogation purposes? I'm sure there are other reasons but thats the first one that comes to mind

Right. What if someone being interrogated said, "I was never even in the ___ room!" and that's where the body was found. The cops would wonder why he would blurt that out, unless he was the killer and knew.

The above it a hypothetical case, not fact. jmo

 

[Mom24]

We were living in Vermont when this happened and followed it closely. I was so happy when she turned up alive. Cases like Abby truly help give me hope at times like this.

I know it was stupid, I didn't know her or her family, but I cried when the news came through that she was alive.

 

[Jabarn]

I had wondered if dad answered the door, was shot, intruder is banging through the house looking for mom, he attacks mom and JC runs out and intruder follows and shoot and wounds her. That would explain why it sounded like the shots were someone shooting something outside.

It’s not been satisfactorily explained if dad was home when this crime started, or how the door came to be kicked in. Looking at the info posted by Whiskers at the top of each new thread, a family member said dad was at work when Jayme and her mom went to a birthday party earlier in the day. No doubt James was shot in the doorway. I know it’s all circumstantial, but I keep going back to he walked into a crime in progress against his family, and someone was tied to the chair. Things happened very quickly after that. That’s only my opinion.