Season 2 Episode 10

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proudfootz said:
I think of a 'diary' or a 'journal' as a bound book, often containing free writing from the owner. If KZ mentioned a 'journal' I would expect a bound book or notebook with blank pages for TH to fill in with whatever she chose.

This is just an 8 1/2 by 11 inch sheet of paper printed off her computer sometimes called a 'day planner' - not bound just a one-off thing which shows her schedule and also gives her a place to not new appointments that come up for her after it was printed. This one appears much like an excel spreadsheet with slots to indicate the time of day appointments might be scheduled.

I know in some contexts a 'diary' might refer to an appointment book that isn't so much a personal record but more of a record of planned appointments.
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Thank you! I just cannot remember if they called it a journal or diary. I'm sure someone here knows. I believe that TH's roommate did say that this page was from a spreadsheet, but I had the impression that it was tucked within a bigger notebook.
 
zellner mentioned that teresa was doing spontaneuos photo shootings too... could it be that she did one of those, after she left the avery property?
what if bobby followed her, like "hey, take some pictures of my car... i got the money..."
 
BelleIsle said:
Thank you! I just cannot remember if they called it a journal or diary. I'm sure someone here knows. I believe that TH's roommate did say that this page was from a spreadsheet, but I had the impression that it was tucked within a bigger notebook.
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BBM, I have seen it previously referred as a Day planner. I imagine that TH set out her appointments/schedule for the day with it.
 
leslievernon said:
the whole season revealed a lot more than most of us here knew..
thx again, missy.. i just wanted to ask what's next reg. avery's legal proceedings.

yeah, the journal was interesting... i don't think that she was returning home.. only to leave a piece of paper there, or a journal for that matter. nobody saw here coming back home?

so hillegas had the journal and knew about the broken light on her car... and knew her password. i mean... wow.
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Avery's case is at the Wisconsin Court of Appeals. KZ needs to file a brief by December 20th. She is appealing the last decision not to grant an evidentiary hearing based on new evidence.

I will go more into the journal/phone calls when I find the right exhibits and motions to post :)

Same with the broken light... I will see if I can find the specific DCI report that it was mentioned... Fassbender asked Ryan about it... Ryan called him back saying that she got into an accident and just took the payout.

Ryan did not know her password, but he "figured it out". Ryan's phone records show that he called Cingular 2 or 3 times on November 3rd.
 
BelleIsle said:
I believe that KZ matches up info about the phone call TH received to the time that she wrote it in her journal and then surmises that she wouldn't have had time to go back to her home before continuing along her route that day. The strange thing is that the ex somehow ends up with her journal even though she likely had it with her in the car.
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So there are 2 people that did affidavit's saying they spoke to Teresa that day.

Steve Speckman, around 12:44pm:
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...iously-Filed-Motion-to-Reconsider.pdf#page=97

Denise Heitle, around 11:30am:
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...ion-for-Reconsideration-Exhibits.pdf#page=150

If you look at the attachments to their affidavits, they are different (not sure why). But here is a link to Teresa's phone records: http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...Trial-Exhibit-361-Halbach-Cingular-Report.pdf The important thing to look at is the ICell #'s. 21112 seems to be the tower that Teresa's phone used when she was at home. I have seen other cell records of hers that someone recently got with a FOI request, and I am 99.9% sure this is her "home" tower. Both of the above calls happened while she was still on that tower. IMO, she was still home. She may have told them something like she was driving, but there is no way of knowing whether she was fibbing to them, or not. Also, in that time frame 11:30-12:44pm, she received a fax from AutoTrader with the lead sheet for the Janda appointment, that had the address and all the information for Teresa.

Here is some bonus information... LOL I do believe Steve Speckman is the "Steve" that called Auto Trader on Thursday saying that Teresa never showed up and he didn't appreciate that someone named Scott called him and accused him of stuff. Scott was Teresa's roommate. This is the "lie" that Kratz spews about saying that Steve (Avery) said that she didn't show up.
 
missy1974 said:
So there are 2 people that did affidavit's saying they spoke to Teresa that day.

Steve Speckman, around 12:44pm:
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...iously-Filed-Motion-to-Reconsider.pdf#page=97

Denise Heitle, around 11:30am:
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...ion-for-Reconsideration-Exhibits.pdf#page=150

If you look at the attachments to their affidavits, they are different (not sure why). But here is a link to Teresa's phone records: http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...Trial-Exhibit-361-Halbach-Cingular-Report.pdf The important thing to look at is the ICell #'s. 21112 seems to be the tower that Teresa's phone used when she was at home. I have seen other cell records of hers that someone recently got with a FOI request, and I am 99.9% sure this is her "home" tower. Both of the above calls happened while she was still on that tower. IMO, she was still home. She may have told them something like she was driving, but there is no way of knowing whether she was fibbing to them, or not. Also, in that time frame 11:30-12:44pm, she received a fax from AutoTrader with the lead sheet for the Janda appointment, that had the address and all the information for Teresa.

Here is some bonus information... LOL I do believe Steve Speckman is the "Steve" that called Auto Trader on Thursday saying that Teresa never showed up and he didn't appreciate that someone named Scott called him and accused him of stuff. Scott was Teresa's roommate. This is the "lie" that Kratz spews about saying that Steve (Avery) said that she didn't show up.
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Wow, thank you! I think the entry that says "Denise ST" is the one that was mentioned as being something that was jotted down while on the road. I'll take a look at the phone logs, thanks!
 
I don't know what thread I should be in but I have a question- was child *advertiser censored* found on BoD's computer?
 
LifeCitizen said:
I don't know what thread I should be in but I have a question- was child *advertiser censored* found on BoD's computer?
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this is a motion that was filed in Aug 2018

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...y-Filed-Motion-for-Post-Conviction-Relief.pdf

The exhibits show some of the computer history:
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Exhibits-Part-1-of-2.pdf
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Exhibits-Part-2-of-2.pdf

The actual CD has been sealed (presumably because of the images)

Here is also a report that Fassbender wrote back in 2006 http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...Motion-for-Post-Conviction-Relief.pdf#page=47

it was attached as exhibit 2 to a filing back in July.

Hope that helps :) It sure is implied that there is child *advertiser censored* IMO
 
Thanks so much Missy, I will take a look.

I was looking through the case files last night for something else- how Mama Avery was a victim of DV from Allan and how she used to psychically abuse the kids, apparently she used to chain them up to trees when they were naughty or whatever. But I couldn't find those files, they're there though.

I was wondering how many rapes and murders have happened in Manitowoc since SA and BD were locked up in 2005 and found this:

http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Manitowoc-Wisconsin.html

It looks like there has been a lot of rapes over the years but only 2 murders. One in 2006 and one in 2013.
 
LifeCitizen said:
Thanks so much Missy, I will take a look.

I was looking through the case files last night for something else- how Mama Avery was a victim of DV from Allan and how she used to psychically abuse the kids, apparently she used to chain them up to trees when they were naughty or whatever. But I couldn't find those files, they're there though.

I was wondering how many rapes and murders have happened in Manitowoc since SA and BD were locked up in 2005 and found this:

http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Manitowoc-Wisconsin.html

It looks like there has been a lot of rapes over the years but only 2 murders. One in 2006 and one in 2013.
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hmmm I don't recall that at all LifeCitizen, about Mama Avery I mean. I think there was an accusation about the tree thing against SA, that was during the 1985 incidents though. I will see if I can find them for you :)
 
Hey @LifeCitizen I did find where that information came from, about Ma Avery... it was in Michael Griesbach's book, probably why I hadn't read it before haha Not sure which book it's from though.

I looked quickly, and didn't find anything in the earlier case files. Sorry lol
 
I have not read through the thread yet. Just sort of giving a timeline of notable stuff. I don't want to see spoilers for this episode. This post is going to be full of them.

1:18 Picture of the possible pelvic bone fragments. Not sure if I have seen these before.
2:10 the state refuses to let the light get tested by Zellner. They let her test so many different things but the light is where they draw the line?

6:45 Discussion of shortcomings of judge Sutkiweicz's (I gave up trying to spell it halfway through) decision. A judge ruling without a filing is really weird. She basically went with "I agree with what the prosecution says!" before the prosecution spoke. Judge does not come across as an objective observer.

~17:00 the Barb/Scott and Steven call. The "You'll have a dead sister" call. I notice that her alibi for Scott starts at 5. Teresa gets to the Avery property at something like 2:35.

~21:35 Bobby's new version of events where he never sees Teresa leave, contradicting what he told Bryan, and he never saw her go towards Steven's trailer, contradicting what he testified to in court.

23:00 He says his account from court is true, contradicting his new version of events.

30:00 The extra human bones. Evidence numbers 7412-7424 contains a lot of human bone pieces. One of those numbers includes a pile of 12 bone fragments. Some evidence numbers represent bones with cut marks. The location of these pieces was even further away from the Avery property than the original ones. These are on Manitowoc owned land.

35:00 Zellner's expert says the police recovered 1.7 pounds of bone and a cremation usually leaves you with around 10 pounds of bone, depending on the size of the person. Her expert notes they didn't find any rib or vertebrae fragments. "We're missing the bones that hold up in a fire."[exact wording]
"People get frustrated when a body doesn't burn up so they dump pieces somewhere else." [paraphrased]

~39:30 the medical examiner starts talking about her role in the recovery of Teresa's remains.
Wiegert told her "I don't have to tell you about bones."
41:35 She was told that if she tried to do her job and follow the law, she would be arrested.
Apparently, the coroner is the highest ranking official on the scene where a body is concerned and can even arrest the sheriff, which is a neat factoid.
She received 2 phone calls telling her to stay away from the Avery property due to the $36 million lawsuit.

47:30 Brendan appeals stuff.

57:00 The CD/DVD evidence. Detective Velie's report on the contents of the Dassey computer hard drive. This report was completed in May of 2006. It was handed over in April of 2018. This was not "a timely discolure." Fassbender held onto 2400 pages of evidence.

1 hour 4 minutes, apparently Kratz listed these 2400 pages of evidence of nothing significant, so the guy that wrote the report, Velie was not going to be a witness. Also, Kratz lies repeatedly on documents claiming it was Brendan's computer. I guess so that if its contents were discovered, Brendan would be blamed for it.
 
Law enforcement obstruction of justice and prosecution deceiving the defense and ultimately the jury casts a lot of doubt on the case against Steven Avery.
 
There's even a crime scene photo of the computer in Bobby's room.


'~17:00 the Barb/Scott and Steven call. The "You'll have a dead sister" call. I notice that her alibi for Scott starts at 5. Teresa gets to the Avery property at something like 2:35.'

That call was from years ago and in MaM1, I kind of thought that was a bit misleading playing it again in MaM2 because from memory it didn't state that phone call was from an earlier time, so if you hadn't watched 1, you wouldn't have known that. MaM2 definitely points the finger at BoD and ST more than MaM1. There's over 2 hours- from 2:35 to 5 that Barb wasn't with ST, I think she was at work so she wasn't around the salvage yard?

It was always interesting that those two had alibis for each other.
 
IIRC the 'dead sister' call references Kathleen Zellner, and she was not involved in the case until after 'Making a Murderer' was released on Netflix in late 2015.
 
LifeCitizen said:
'~17:00 the Barb/Scott and Steven call. The "You'll have a dead sister" call. I notice that her alibi for Scott starts at 5. Teresa gets to the Avery property at something like 2:35.'

That call was from years ago and in MaM1, I kind of thought that was a bit misleading playing it again in MaM2 because from memory it didn't state that phone call was from an earlier time, so if you hadn't watched 1, you wouldn't have known that. MaM2 definitely points the finger at BoD and ST more than MaM1. There's over 2 hours- from 2:35 to 5 that Barb wasn't with ST, I think she was at work so she wasn't around the salvage yard?

It was always interesting that those two had alibis for each other.
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Hmmmm. I thought it was newer than MaM1. I remember discussing it well after the release date.
If it was in MaM1, I think adding it is fair. Maybe they should have added the date. But I think it shows that Scott is the sort of guy that flies off the handle and does regrettable things.
Your post is making me think about the call and I might be seeing it in a new light. I'll have to mull things over a bit.
 
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