AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #14

[sleuther0192837465]

It's also human nature to hear something or see something and try to make it rational and normal. For instance, if you've ever been driving and someone coming toward you crosses the middle line you'll hesitate for a moment before reacting because you're trying to understand something that doesn't fit the rules. It's the same with this, especially when you mix it with the unique nature of living in rural WI, the couple heard shots and made a rational reason why it happened. "When you hear hoofbeats, think horses not zebras".

Right!

 

[SkipperKey3]

Exactly! This is just our way of life I honestly think being out here really sharpens our senses. MOO

So does being on WebSleuths...

 

[sleuther0192837465]

So does being on WebSleuths...

So true!!!

 

[pepper 34]

I will say it again, why would one break down a door when all he/she/them had to do was walk approx 25 feet around the corner of house and break the glass patio door.
That should give us maybe some insight on perp(s)

Agree... why go to the front door if you are trying to break into almost any house? The rear basement door or, as you said, the patio door would be better choices with less chance of being seen or caught. I know it was late but, if anyone pulled into the driveway, there you would be in the headlights fiddling around with someone's front door. No, not a good plan. This is why I suspect the first thing that happened is the killer knocked on the door and the father wouldn't open the door once he saw who was outside and words may have been exchanged in anger before things turned violent. (Is this when the father turned the front light on to see better through the glass window in the door or were they already on? Either way, I don't think front doors are robbers favorite entry point.) I think this means the father knew who it was and didn't want him in the house for any reason. Or... the plan was to smash down the front door all along and was meant to be a terrorizing shock to the family. In either of those possible scenarios, I would guess the killer was not unknown to at least Mr. Closs.
ETA: Remove info about breaking into sliding glass doors. Just saw it's already been discussed. (Yes... it's easy to do.)

 

[debirlfan]

I just wanted to chime in on an earlier discussion about gun shots heard by the Closses neighbors & the fact that it is common in rural areas.
We live in a very rural community (population is roughly 600). We have black bears, fox, coyotes, etc).
Over the summer, hubby & I were sitting out on the front porch when we saw something scurrying through our yard, towards our chicken coop. It was a fox. So hubby runs in to get his rifle & shot it into the air towards the woods just to scare the fox away. This happened at midnight. (We do have acreage & our neighbors are further away than the Closses neighbors are, but I am 100% certain they heard.)
It happened again, about 2 wks later, around midnight. Nobody called 911 either time because it is normal around our area. MOO

My area is less rural than yours, and one still hears the occasional gunshot (or at least things that sound like gunshots.) Some of it is likely hunting (legal or otherwise), and sadly some is police dispatching deer that have been hit by cars. At any rate, a couple gunshots wouldn't be unusual enough that I'd expect anyone to call police unless there was something else like sounds of an argument in addition. I imagine the perps didn't think anyone would call, and even if they did, it would be difficult for anyone to know where the shots had come from so being caught would be unlikely.

 

[KLM6]

There are photos and videos throughout the threads; my advice would be to start here: WI - WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron,Media, Maps and Timelines *NO DISCUSSION*​

Also, see Whiskers16 post on page 1 of the thread.

Thank you! I found what I was looking for in that link. Then I searched and found discussion that changed what I was thinking anyway. Its hard to keep up on these threads sometimes! I appreciate the help!

 

[1987]

Agree... why go to the front door if you are trying to break into almost any house? The rear basement door or, as you said, the patio door would be better choices with less chance of being seen or caught. I know it was late but, if anyone pulled into the driveway, there you would be in the headlights fiddling around with someone's front door. No, not a good plan. This is why I suspect the first thing that happened is the killer knocked on the door and the father wouldn't open the door once he saw who was outside and words may have been exchanged in anger before things turned violent. (Is this when the father turned the front light on to see better through the glass window in the door or were they already on? Either way, I don't think front doors are robbers favorite entry point.) I think this means the father knew who it was and didn't want him in the house for any reason. Or... the plan was to smash down the front door all along and was meant to be a terrorizing shock to the family. In either of those possible scenarios, I would guess the killer was not unknown to at least Mr. Closs.

all I can come up with for front door over other doors is a person that has a more direct personality where a side or back door seems more sneaky personality to me.

 

[sleuther0192837465]

My area is less rural than yours, and one still hears the occasional gunshot (or at least things that sound like gunshots.) Some of it is likely hunting (legal or otherwise), and sadly some is police dispatching deer that have been hit by cars. At any rate, a couple gunshots wouldn't be unusual enough that I'd expect anyone to call police unless there was something else like sounds of an argument in addition. I imagine the perps didn't think anyone would call, and even if they did, it would be difficult for anyone to know where the shots had come from so being caught would be unlikely.

I agree. Do you feel the perp is used to country life? It sure seems like they did know no one would be alarmed at hearing those shots. MOO

 

[RavenDoc]

Without giving any more details on the how, is this something that can be done quickly and without making noise? If not then that may be why perp(s) chose the front door instead.

I know where I live out in the country if someone comes out in my backyard and on my back patio everything will be lit up in floodlights. Just a thought.

 

[Confusion]

From the log transcript... wondering what a “lift assist” is? I put a red mark beside line question. Sorry it’s sideways. I couldn’t get it straight on cell copy.

My guess is: 1st, that this has already been answered, and 2nd that they needed someone to help with the bodies. A lift assist usually means helping someone who has fallen, sometimes someone who is very heavy, lifting something heavy off a person, etc. At least, that's what it means around here. MOO

 

[kirkassoc]

Marking My Spot

 

[Snoopster]

My area is less rural than yours, and one still hears the occasional gunshot (or at least things that sound like gunshots.) Some of it is likely hunting (legal or otherwise), and sadly some is police dispatching deer that have been hit by cars. At any rate, a couple gunshots wouldn't be unusual enough that I'd expect anyone to call police unless there was something else like sounds of an argument in addition. I imagine the perps didn't think anyone would call, and even if they did, it would be difficult for anyone to know where the shots had come from so being caught would be unlikely.

Thank you for that context. Where I live, we don't hear any gunshots, so we would naturally call police, but now I understand why some people wouldn't.

 

[MsBetsy]

I doubt she typically spent Sunday nights anywhere else but home. I think the killer was someone who worked with the parents and that's why they were both killed. Jayme could have been taken out into the middle of nowhere and abandoned. JMO

Why would he go through all that trouble just to risk her being found and identifying him?

 

[Sachi]

Agree... why go to the front door if you are trying to break into almost any house? The rear basement door or, as you said, the patio door would be better choices with less chance of being seen or caught. I know it was late but, if anyone pulled into the driveway, there you would be in the headlights fiddling around with someone's front door. No, not a good plan. This is why I suspect the first thing that happened is the killer knocked on the door and the father wouldn't open the door once he saw who was outside and words may have been exchanged in anger before things turned violent. (Is this when the father turned the front light on to see better through the glass window in the door or were they already on? Either way, I don't think front doors are robbers favorite entry point.) I think this means the father knew who it was and didn't want him in the house for any reason. Or... the plan was to smash down the front door all along and was meant to be a terrorizing shock to the family. In either of those possible scenarios, I would guess the killer was not unknown to at least Mr. Closs.[/QUOTE

This.

 

[kkdj]

If anyone is jumping in and missed it, a 2000 Monte Carlo was found today submerged in the Fox River in Oshkosh, WI. The car is red with white markings and in very good condition, could not have been in water long.

Car discovered in Fox River in Oshkosh

In the Mark Fuhrman interview, he said, "the red car with white markings".

A poster here even pointed it out that maybe Fuhrman is losing it because the stock photos of the Challenger released by LE are red or orange with black markings. Fuhrman did not correct himself nor did Sandra Smith of Fox say anything.

The article says yellow markings but I guess if its a light yellow it could be mistaken for a white.

 

[KLM6]

all I can come up with for front door over other doors is a person that has a more direct personality where a side or back door seems more sneaky personality to me.

Im leaning towards they knocked or yelled first and he didnt let them in so they kicked it in. My opinion is this was not a random burglary, and they didnt care to be sneaky.

 

[pepper 34]

Ok, here are some positive thoughts... They (the neighbors) are one of the closest people to the Closs house. They probably are just trying to think of absolutely everything they can and might wish that they could help more. How many nights have they sat at home and heard whatever, and it all just blends into day after day. I’m sure like everyone in town, they are trying to do the best they can.

They have said more than once during interviews that they wish they called 911 right away because they might have saved Jayme. Guilt is such an awful feeling. In that, I think they have a bigger emotional burden then many others living in the town because they are admitting they feel guilty. They could have called, they said, and they didn't.

 

[kkdj]

I agree. Do you feel the perp is used to country life? It sure seems like they did know no one would be alarmed at hearing those shots. MOO

yes. I think the perp or perps were well aware of how life works out there. I'll bet they also knew how long it take LE to arrive at scene. jmo

 

[Bluebythec]

I will be surprised if this wasn’t connected.

I saw a pic of the car after it was removed from the water and it looked pristine. Doesn't seem like it's been submerged for very long.

 

[not.a.muggle]

I read someplace that every body of water of any size in the US likely contains a car and/or a body...I believe it

I think the book about NecroSearch mentions something about this (the cars). When they were looking for their first car in a river, they found at least one before the target car.