PA - 11 killed, 6 injured in mass shooting at Pittsburgh Synagogue, 27 Oct 2018 *guilty, death sentence*

[gitana1]

Do you mean use their names, or give them nicknames?

I think serial killers are mostly in it for the killing (look how many aren't named or famous, or have never drawn any attention to themselves) and mass shooters and bombers (the two this week, for instance) are more in it for the message and the glory.

I'm not sure how the difference applies to naming or not naming them. Still thinking.

I do feel that if the media came to a consensus of not showing their photos or repeating their names a lot - sure, talk about who they are demographically and what they've done on social media, or whatever, but don't allow them to be glorified or notorious - and also publicly referred to these people as cowards (even though that's editorializing), there would be less motivation for the next one.

 

[mickey2942]

I believe that society in general is more violent. I sat down to watch tv the other night, and literally couldn't find anything that was not violent or gruesome. Of course, it is close to Halloween, but movies of that genre have become progressively more violent, and vividly realistic.

Add the computer games, one I recently saw, "Sniper Elite", why are developers even allowed to sell a "game" like this?! And why would anyone buy it? Beyond belief.

I was not happy during Vietnam to see the war right in our living room. But things are worse now. Terrorism is a way of life now in the United States. It is no longer in some distant land that we watch on tv.

 

[margarita25]

11 Killed in Pittsburgh Synagogue Massacre; Suspect Charged With 29 Counts

“Federal officials charged Mr. Bowers with 29 criminal counts. They include obstructing the free exercise of religious beliefs — a hate crime — and using a firearm to commit murder.”

 

[bluesneakers]

I believe that society in general is more violent. I sat down to watch tv the other night, and literally couldn't find anything that was not violent or gruesome. Of course, it is close to Halloween, but movies of that genre have become progressively more violent, and vividly realistic.

Add the computer games, one I recently saw, "Sniper Elite", why are developers even allowed to sell a "game" like this?! And why would anyone buy it? Beyond belief.

I was not happy during Vietnam to see the war right in our living room. But things are worse now. Terrorism is a way of life now in the United States. It is no longer in some distant land that we watch on tv.

This was about hate, not entertainment or watching the news.

 

[margarita25]

This was about hate, not entertainment or watching the news.

Hi bluesneakers.

I just posted above that I’ve figured out what connects all these shooters:

HATE.

Moo.

 

[bluesneakers]

So what connects these shooters?

Hate.

Lack of Empathy.

Resentment.

Fear??

[sbm]

Also:
Gender (male). Domestic violence in past. Guns.

Misogyny is common. Fear/hate, but just specific. They often share a general sort of hate and a raging hate for a specific group, but most share the hatred of women.

@margarita25 I think you added to this after I read it.

 

[margarita25]

Isn't that what you mean though? By general population? That he should be exposed to brutality?

Because guys like him generally are more at risk than the average prisoner. Because they're notorious.

I don't know. I feel like I'm beyond anger at this point. It's gets us nowhere. It's gotten us nothing.

The nations with the harshest and most barbaric laws still have horrible crimes.

I'm just sad. Very sad.

Just put the guy away forever. He's defective. Subhuman. Protect society from further harm from him. But otherwise subjecting him to brutality achieves nothing, IMO.

I don't know, friends.

“I don't know, friends.”

My thoughts exactly, g.

 

[margarita25]

Hate crime charges filed in Pittsburgh synagogue shooting that left 11 dead
https://www-m.cnn.com/2018/10/27/us...ter/index.html?r=https://www.google.com/&rm=1

“Bowers is charged with 11 counts of using a firearm to commit murder and multiple counts of two hate crimes: obstruction of exercise of religious beliefs resulting in death and obstruction of exercise of religious beliefs resulting in bodily injury to a public safety officer.
"The crimes of violence are based upon the federal civil rights laws prohibiting hate crimes," US Attorney Scott W. Brady and Bob Jones, FBI special agent in charge of Pittsburgh office, said in a statement.“

 

[LemmonsM]

Hi. First post here but have followed for years. I think America is past the point of getting a handle of gun control. There is no way to get all the guns out. I wish we could but there are so many underground guns I personally would not feel comfortable as a law abiding citizen to give up mine own gun. We need serous help but I fear we are beyond that and I’m fearful for my children and what we are leaving for them. Many prayers to those killed and injured and there families.

 

[margarita25]

Hi. First post here but have followed for years. I think America is past the point of getting a handle of gun control. There is no way to get all the guns out. I wish we could but there are so many underground guns I personally would not feel comfortable as a law abiding citizen to give up mine own gun. We need serous help but I fear we are beyond that and I’m fearful for my children and what we are leaving for them. Many prayers to those killed and injured and there families.

Welcome LemmonsM and thank you for saying many things I wanted to say.

In fact, everything I wanted to say.

Even if the law abiding citizens make that sacrifice, bad people will still always have them.

I’m afraid we’ve turned a foreboding corner, a point of no return.

What shooting will it be next month? And next year? And from here on out? It’s endless.

We need to appeal to the minds and hearts of these people (shooters), imo. Is that even possible?

Gah I’m so frustrated I can barely find my words.

All I know is Houston we have a HUGE PROBLEM and I do not know what the answer is (except what I already mentioned.)

 

[SeekingJana]

I believe that society in general is more violent. I sat down to watch tv the other night, and literally couldn't find anything that was not violent or gruesome. Of course, it is close to Halloween, but movies of that genre have become progressively more violent, and vividly realistic.

Add the computer games, one I recently saw, "Sniper Elite", why are developers even allowed to sell a "game" like this?! And why would anyone buy it? Beyond belief.

I was not happy during Vietnam to see the war right in our living room. But things are worse now. Terrorism is a way of life now in the United States. It is no longer in some distant land that we watch on tv.

I agree with you.
I believe the lack of belief in a higher power, of possible eternal punishment by that higher power has caused many of the crimes you and I are alluding to.. Too many to list now but we know, we remember.

You may not feel this way, but I remember being a child of the 60's and wanting to do good because " God can see me all the time".
I never gave up that belief. It's part of who I am.

 

[Fairy1]

I don't believe the media "glorifies" the killers. They do attempt to educate us about who they are in their "real lives." As a crime follower, that's important to me. I want to know how their minds work. How seemingly harmless vitriol becomes a mass killing. How their on-line presence should have been a red flag. I need to know what turns a son, father, brother, co-worker or neighbor into a killer of innocent humans. Because we all have these people in our lives.

Tomorrow, we will begin to learn about the innocent victims murdered today. And, although we are already grieving for them and their families, learning who they were and what they meant in this world will, and should, make us grieve all the more.

What a horrible shame to be reminded that no one on this earth is truly free to worship as they wish.

 

[Fairy1]

I agree with you.
I believe the lack of belief in a higher power, of possible eternal punishment by that higher power has caused many of the crimes you and I are alluding to.. Too many to list now but we know, we remember.

You may not feel this way, but I remember being a child of the 60's and wanting to do good because " God can see me all the time".
I never gave up that belief. It's part of who I am.

Interesting. Those who were slaughtered today were, literally, in their house of worship. And this wasn't the first time. How can that be explained?

 

[margarita25]

Just atrocious. These annihilations.

 

[SeekingJana]

Two things I want to say:
1) The posts about being caring, compassionate and more loving are absolutely the way I think the God of Abraham told His people to live in the face of adversity and persecution.

With the genuine loving and compassion, though, comes greater personal vulnerability. When you give of your heart freely and trust, the chance of being hurt in some way or ways multiplies. Make sure you are prepared for the users and the liars as well as those who will embrace you in shared love. I say this with love to all.

About the naming thing: IF we could go back to ONE DAY before Facebook launched, MySpace came to be, Twitter and Instagram were known, I think many of our societal ills would cease. Some people have made heroes of horrible criminals, but- to be honest, the same anti-establishment people did this with Manson and Bundy and other godless killers throughout our history.

I still would so love to see a world without social media. I think the anonymity and " hit and run" aspects can cause a mob- like flashover which incites a borderline psychopath to take that giant step forward into mass violence.

Thees are NOT sane people. Evil and insanity can co-exist. A sane person would never encourage the killing of innocents anywhere, for any reason. The best our CJ system can do is lock the person away for all his life. In so doing, we who seek to understand the pervasive trend of mass shootings and harm to total strangers lose a great deal of empirical data from these murderers which likely could help us identify and stop a budding Anti-Social Personality disordered person with violent trait ( a Psychopath).

My colleagues and I have submitted a mental health screening exam to the American Medical Association as part of a yearly physical exam. It has also been modified for age and interests in middle school, high school, and college students.
Just like the MMPI, there are " qualifiers" to prevent false responses from counting as valid scoring.
It's been widely approved by the AMA, but the hang up is with some insurers...
I'm not including this to stir dissent, because it's been in the news before now, but because the mental illness of psychopathy is like cancer. You have to screen for it, look for it, and find it early to prevent deaths.

 

[mickey2942]

I agree with you.
I believe the lack of belief in a higher power, of possible eternal punishment by that higher power has caused many of the crimes you and I are alluding to.. Too many to list now but we know, we remember.

You may not feel this way, but I remember being a child of the 60's and wanting to do good because " God can see me all the time".
I never gave up that belief. It's part of who I am.

It is common here, for people to have 10 or more guns in their home. My husband likes to clean his guns when watching tv. He trades guns, visits gun stores for a hobby. Owning guns is ingrained in the culture here in Montana. Things won't change here, that is for sure.

 

[bluesneakers]

Interesting. Those who were slaughtered today were, literally, in their house of worship. And this wasn't the first time. How can that be explained?

And many terrorists believe in an all-knowing G-d but it doesn't stop them.

 

[kaen]

I believe that society in general is more violent. I sat down to watch tv the other night, and literally couldn't find anything that was not violent or gruesome. Of course, it is close to Halloween, but movies of that genre have become progressively more violent, and vividly realistic.

Add the computer games, one I recently saw, "Sniper Elite", why are developers even allowed to sell a "game" like this?! And why would anyone buy it? Beyond belief.

I was not happy during Vietnam to see the war right in our living room. But things are worse now. Terrorism is a way of life now in the United States. It is no longer in some distant land that we watch on tv.

On so many levels I am resistant to going to society or tv or video games as the issue that causes these kinds of occurrences in our country and others. Many people have dealt with unspeakable violence. Women have been the victims of violence since recorded history, yet women are not the prime perpetrators of crimes. We could substitute Vietnamese, gay, or any number of other cultures/ethnic groups for women. Movies, video games and life have been violent in so many places yet we in America are facing increasing violence in the form of mass attacks. I wish the issue was just what our children see or hear as the answer would be easy. The common denominator is hate and fear of difference. How that is amplified stems the rhetoric from fear mongers, hate groups, and a lack of civility born of "I have to get mine before anyone else gets theirs."

I can play all kinds of violent video games and never pick up a gun to kill someone. I don't have fear and hate at my core. Horror movie or gruesome book won't move me to violence or desensitize me to violence. The Vietnamese people didn't watch the violence in their country on TV.. They experienced it first hand. Yet, the country of Vietnam is not proportionally violent. They have a high rate of literacy and upward mobility. IMO, it is time to stop making excuses and begin to address the issues we face. WE have a hate problem. WE have a fear of not doing as well as our parents problem. WE do not have leadership to move us forward or even lead us to a national dialogue. It is fear that pushes marginalized people into the hands of extremists. Germany in WWII is a case in point. I fear for us, not because of the societal opportunities of tv and video, but from the open arms of haters and fear mongers who are giving people so desperate for a feeling of refuge a place under their awful wings.

 

[SeekingJana]

Interesting. Those who were slaughtered today were, literally, in their house of worship. And this wasn't the first time. How can that be explained?

The murderer was targeting Jewish worshippers. They were the victims of evil. If you are asking me " How did God let this happen?" , to me, the answer is that God does not have power over Satan in this world, which is as much Satan's domain as it is God's.

When a madman had two routes to choose from, to keep on driving to the nearest mental health care hospital, or to go in with guns and kill innocent worshippers, the influence of the Prince of Darkness had this killer in his grip.
We see through a glass darkly now, and it is all madness, but one day, we will understand the forces of pure love and pure evil perfectly, I believe.

I grieve so for what has happened and while there are multiple factors, the largest one, IMO, is that our country has let mental health care decay and vanish and be unavailable to those who can't afford to pay for it. It's not fair, none of it is a bit fair or just or even humane.

 

[SeekingJana]

And many terrorists believe in an all-knowing G-d but it doesn't stop them.

I respectfully disagree that they have a personal love for Our Creator and obey His laws.