CA - Multiple casualties after 'active shooter' opens fire, Thousand Oaks, 08 Nov 2018

[mistivon]

From a friend on the crisis team:
FYI: feel free to share. Thousand Oaks shooting survivors: many of you have been asking about immediate crisis counseling to process last night’s tragedy. For immediate assistance The Disaster Distress Helpline 1-800-985-5990 provides immediate crisis counseling to people affected by the shooting at the Borderline Bar. I partner with Give An Hour and am nearly certain they will open up free crisis counseling for gun violence ASAP as well. See website below. https://giveanhour.org/ If you are a woman needing immediate counseling support, please consider the telehealth clinic Maven – health & wellness designed for women. Talkspace can also provide immediate video-telehealth sessions. Talkspace | Online Therapy | Counseling Online | Marriage Counseling

 

[angelainwi]

Bingo. My thoughts exactly.

We did have vets returning home with mental health issues in the past, and my guess is if they were violent, it was confined to being violent in their own homes. Of course, that is also horrible, but my point is that I think the problem is not new. What is "new" is using weapons against the public in mass shootings. (And by "new," I mean in the past generation or so.)

I also wonder about the medications and if the "cures" are worse than the illness for some people.

I've been saying for years that we need to face the fact we have an angry culture and to roll up our sleeves to fix that. I think we don't do that because....it's hard and it means making changes.

jmo

edited for clarity

In the past when people became severely mentally ill they were sent to live in institutions. They were not kept out in the public where they could hurt themselves or others

 

[angelainwi]

Medications could be it? I do know that when I try to quit smoking I took two different kinds. One was Chantix, the other was Wellbutrin. The Wellbutrin made me have a trigger temper for sure! I got off that stuff very quickly.

ETA.. Wellbutrin is given out for anxiety, but it is the same thing as the anti-smoking thing which is prescribed under a different name.( or vice versa, I can't remember of which is which)

I briefly took Wellbutrin as an anti-depressant and it made me violent. It was scary, I could not control myself. Thank God I knew enough to know it was the medication and to stop it right away

 

[Inthedetails]

In the past when people became severely mentally ill they were sent to live in institutions. They were not kept out in the public where they could hurt themselves or others

I think there were plenty of vets returning from who lived with their families, returned to their jobs....and suffered without seeking help, except perhaps self-medication.

And their families suffered.

Just my opinion, and my observation after hearing stories of people who lived through such situations as children with fathers who were vets.

And I do not imply that all vets come home in such a state, of course. But some do. I don't think they necessarily belong institutions, but they need something. Wish I knew the solution.

jmo

 

[Cryptic]

It's down right disgusting that everyday people find comfort knowing someone in close proximity carries a gun and could protect you in case of a threat.
It shouldn't have to be like this.

I agree, it should not have to be that way, but the reality is that way.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I briefly took Wellbutrin as an anti-depressant and it made me violent. It was scary, I could not control myself. Thank God I knew enough to know it was the medication and to stop it right away

I hope this is still on topic, as I don't want to get into to discussion as to drugs and the pharmacy industry.

But trying to stay on point, I think many people are more susceptible to the negative effects of any drugs. The ones that you read about and hear about on late night TV, and you say oh my gosh that's results are worse than the original diagnosis.

Anecdotally, when I was in college I went on the pill. What can I say it was the 70s and early 80s. And I had to go off of them after just a little bit because it was affecting me psychologically. Perhaps my body is just one that does not like certain drugs and is one that is very reactive?

I know people that don't have these reactions to these drugs cannot understand.

But when I was on the stop smoking drugs I became very suicidal also as to thoughts. That plus the violence that I was thinking of, I knew to go off of them quickly.

I think it's interesting because my first key was when I could not even take the birth control pill when I was younger a very long long time ago. At that time, I had a very close group of friends who recognized my symptoms before I even did and told me what was going on. I went off of them and never went on again.

Perhaps others don't have that type of support system to let them know how much the drugs are affecting them, and they are getting worse but they think it is just from the original problem versus the drugs are adding to it? I don't have an answer to that, but Gitana made me think of it

 

[angelainwi]

I think there were plenty of vets returning from who lived with their families, returned to their jobs....and suffered without seeking help, except perhaps self-medication.

And their families suffered.

Just my opinion, and my observation after hearing stories of people who lived through such situations as children with fathers who were vets.

And I do not imply that all vets come home in such a state, of course. But some do. I don't think they necessarily belong institutions, but they need something. Wish I knew the solution.

jmo

I am not saying they necessarily belong in institutions either. I think there are steps in between. It needs to start with being able to get someone help right away after an incident. Right now too many refuse the help, manipulate their way out of it or their families are too afraid to call because they know that the police will not take their loved one away. When people have sick brains they cannot make good decisions including knowing it is time to get help. We need to make it easier to get people in for involuntary help.

 

[moonriverfarm]

We do not have a gun problem. We have a mental health problem.

 

[dotr]

What to Do in an Active Shooter Situation | The Art of Manliness
So you’ve heard shots and screams. There’s an active shooting happening. What should you do? All the experts agree that you have three possible actions: run, hide, and fight.

Run

Running away should always be your first line of action. As soon as you hear gunfire, leave the premises immediately using your preconceived escape plan and get as far away from the shooter as possible. Ideally, you’ll be able to escape without having to cross the shooter’s path.

Keep in mind that in an active shooter situation, most people won’t want to leave because 1) they’re cowed in fear, 2) they’ve let the normalcy bias take over, or 3) they think hiding should be their first recourse. But you need to run, regardless of what others are doing. Do all you can to convince them to come with you, but if they don’t comply, leave them, and get out of the building or danger area as soon as possible.

Don’t try to gather your belongings. You can replace your laptop; you can’t replace your life.

As you make your exit, tell others to come along with you. Once you’re out of the danger area, prevent others (except for law enforcement) from entering the premises.

When you’re running, keep your hands visible. Law enforcement will be checking you to decide if you’re a threat.

This may go against every humane compulsion you have, but don’t try to move or assist the wounded while you’re making your exit. It leaves you vulnerable to attack; turning one casualty into two won’t ultimately help things. Even the first law enforcement officers to arrive at the scene will initially ignore the wounded so they can take out the shooter. Just as their top priority is to stop the gunman, your top priority is to get to safety.

 

[The 13th]

Mental health problems exist across the world. People across the world take these medications. I don't understand why we're going off into prescription meds and political declarations here.

 

[Inthedetails]

Mental health problems exist across the world. People across the world take them. I don't understand why we're going off into prescription meds and political declarations here.

We discuss all angles on cases. Not all angles appeal to everyone. If someone wants to post on a different angle, that is always an option.

jmo

 

[The 13th]

I thought politics were off limits and I legitimately don't understand the prescription medication discussion. Is there any information about the shooter I missed?

 

[Inthedetails]

I thought politics were off limits and I legitimately don't understand the prescription medication discussion. Is there any information about the shooter I missed?

If a post violates WS TOS, then report it.

Information about the shooter is not complete yet. Speculation will ensue in the meantime. When we get more concrete info, the discussion will likely focus on the facts that are learned.

The discussion is frustrating to everyone - we seek logical answers when oftentimes there are no logical answers.

jmo

 

[Cryptic]

What is "new" is using weapons against the public in mass shootings.

I don’t think that is new. What is new is using well…. new guns in mass shootings.

The pistols of my youth had primitive sites, were somewhat prone to jam, had clumsy points of aim, and held 8-9 rounds of ammunition. That meant that casual rage ramapgers missed a lot of their targets (real easy to aim high). If the weapon jammed, they were not going to have the skills to un-jam it fast. Reloading also took time and technique. Of course, one does not need years of practice to master an older pistol, but their short comings kept casualties down in some rampage attacks.

Ditto for older rifles and carbines: Bolt action, or semi auto with few rounds- reloading was slow. Mostly designed for hunting animals at longer ranges, not humans at close ranges. So, pretty clumsy to swing around quickly. Relatively heavy recoils did not exactly facilitate rapid firing.

New pistols and rifles hold far more rounds, have very little recoil (rifles), the weapons are light- easy to traverse, and advanced sites make shooting accurately a lot easier. They also hardly ever jam and pistols are ergonomically designed with natural aiming points. The end result is far more casualties when used by casual rampagers.

 

[mistivon]

California shooting: Ian Long identified as gunman at Thousand Oaks bar | Daily Mail Online

Story continually being updated with more info.

10 medals, rank of Corporal
A "mean loner"
Studied athletics at Northridge before dropping out
No criminal history

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

Thousand Oaks Shooter ID’d as 28-Year-Old Marine Veteran Who Used .45-Caliber Handgun

The gun used by Long was a .45-caliber Glock 21 designed to hold 10 rounds plus one in the chamber. The weapon had been modified to hold extra rounds, but it was unclear how many were in the gun at the time of the shooting, Dean said.

 

[mistivon]

My daughter just checked in. She wasn't there but has a friend who was. His phone shows inside the club and they havent heard from him.

 

[not.a.muggle]

It’s a complex issue and I don’t think it can be tied to one thing. The US does have a gun issue and a mental health issue IMO. Why do mentally ill people have access to semi-automatic and automatic weapons? I also think these people seek attention on their way out and because mass shootings are so “popular” in the US, that’s the method they choose. I’m in no way trying to blame the media, but because these situations draw so much media attention, I think it’s attractive to these guys (and occasionally gals).

 

[Vail]

Ian Long: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com

Long had previously been the victim of a battery in 2015 at a bar in the area, the sheriff said. He also had some minor traffic incidents. He did not provide additional details of the battery incident.

That coupled with PTSD is my guess. If he didn't have a gun, he could have just used a bow and arrow, or a sword, or burned the place down with everyone inside. Weapons are plentiful. It is our hate, fear and disillusionment that fuels violence.

 

[katydid23]

This happened in my town. We are still kind of shocked here. My kids used to go to that club A LOT when they were younger. It is an 18 and up crowd and both my kids went there growing up. My son called me about 1 am when he first heard about the shooting, asking about his little sister--making sure she wasn't there. I reminded him she was 26 now and hadn't been there in years.


I watched our local news this morning and an information officer being interviewed said that there had been a few calls to the shooters family home, in Newbury Park. In the most recent one, police were called and found him screaming and throwing things and being hard to control. But they ended the call without taking any action as they said he calmed down and was not a danger to himself or others at the time.