AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #21

[Le Singe]

I have a little experience with viewing bullet projectile damage from target practicing with various objects.

IMO I do think that is bullet damage. It almost looks to me that the bullet went straight at the edge which would cause damage to both the upper and lower sides of the seat part. I hope LE has looked inside that damaged area because the lead or copper jacketed projectile could still be embedded inside the chair if it went in straight at the edge like I suspect.

There is more damage to the top part where it splintered upwards so if I am right that its bullet damage then the bullet could have come out the top. But even so there could be small pieces of the bullet inside that wood.

LE probably was able to get other bullets from the scene so they may not need to recover it.

Expanding on this. If it was bullet damage then I have to wonder if maybe the chair had gotten knocked over and as the perp shot downward at one of the victims the bullet may have gone downward toward the edge of the chair like that if the chair was already knocked over.

Or as was mentioned by others the chair may have been used as a shield when someone was pointing a gun at them.

this is also a good possibility either way i think its bullet damage and the bullet is likely in the chair.

re the splintering is something the happens in wood due the the nature of the material is fibrous it breaks along weak points and cause splintering.

 

[1987]

These were exactly my thoughts last night. To me, it seems clear that it's bullet damage that came in at a 45 degree angle. I do wonder if the damage we see is the result of a bullet passing through a body part before hitting the seat of the chair, though. What are your thoughts on that ?

look at the damage to the chair, what kind of damage do you think would happen to flesh? no way would LE carry out a chair in the open with the graphicness that would be on it if someone was shot sitting in it.

 

[Le Singe]

These were exactly my thoughts last night. To me, it seems clear that it's bullet damage that came in at a 45 degree angle. I do wonder if the damage we see is the result of a bullet passing through a body part before hitting the seat of the chair, though. What are your thoughts on that ?

no clue I am not knowledgeable at all about fire arms. But my off the cuff guess would be to do that much damage to hard wood it would have to have been moving at a pretty high velocity so i would think it didn't hit anything else substantial first IMO.

 

[JnRyan]

Sheriff is doing a live interview about JC case right now: DrydenWire

I like the fact that this Sheriff is using the media like this. And while he is not as dynamic as the former police chief, Longo, of Charlottesville VA, he appears to have the type of presence in front of the media to get things moving.

 

[1987]

I would like to hear LE say the same thing they said in the other recent kidnapping. that would be..if anyone has video save it. even if you don't think you caught anything save it and let LE decide If it is important. on so many dvrs it is going to be overwritten and would be so sad if latter it needed to be looked at.

 

[carbuff]

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Yes, exactly. He's doing what a sheriff should be doing: fronting the operation and keeping the case in the public eye while allowing his detectives, specialists, etc. to do their job in peace and privacy.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Listening to Chris Fitzgerald talk about some of the criticism he's been getting online is one of the reasons I support and appreciate WS's policy of being LE friendly. These guys work so hard, under such difficult conditions , and most of them truly are dedicated to doing their best to bring justice to the victims and their families. It makes me proud to know that, while genuine comments about how a case is being conducted is allowed here, very rarely do we ever NOT give LE the benefit of the doubt.

Thank you for that, Tricia & Co.

 

[gipsypup]

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Thanking everyone who "helped" as if the case has been solved and thanking everyone who voted for him. I know he means well and is working hard( I back all LE), but he did talk about himself and his staff quite a bit.He seemed to brush off some questions as if they weren't important or he just didn't know. But it is great that he is out there keeping the story alive! IMO.
A few things to note:
- He said he knows where Denise & Jayme went after the family party and how long they stayed wherever they went.But he said this information doesn't help solve the case??
-He would not comment if Jayme had an internet BF.
-He said they don't know what Jayme was wearing she disappeared. Therefore, we can't be 100% certain she was in PJ's and in bed.
- He isn't sure Jayme is still close to Barron, but he didn't explain why the tip from Miami was discredited so fast.

 

[Wrenny]

I'm gonna go and circle that fibre and some other areas of interest... I'll be right back

Here's a close up of the pink fluff and the tie on the left rear. The front of the tie looks smudged, like it's been in there a long time. I expect it's from the cushion.

 

[carbuff]

...
-He would not comment if Jayme had an internet BF.
...

snipped by me

That's an interesting thing to not comment on.

 

[Wrenny]

You have a very valid point and I my be way off...just throwing it out there...this is the type of damage my cat does...very shredded and splintery

It doesn't look in the slightest like dog damage.

 

[Hatfield]

Here's a close up of the pink fluff and the tie on the left rear. The front of the tie looks smudged, like it's been in there a long time. I expect it's from the cushion.
View attachment 154705

Thanks to all who are sharing thoughts and these good closeups.

You could be right that maybe the pink stuff is a piece of the inner cushion material. I wonder if LE removed the cushion altogether because I only see the ties at the back and I think the ties were cut to cut off the cushion maybe.

We have chairs with cushions that tie to the chair like that and usually if you untie it then the ties stay with the cushion. It looks to me the cushion was cut off by LE.

Maybe the cushion did have blood staining on it and LE did not want it in the photo possibly or to take the cushion as evidence.

The only other thought about the pink stuff is maybe it was insulation from inside a wall if a bullet passed through a wall first and some of the pink insulation ended up there.

ETA
It would make sense to me that LE cut off the cushion rather than try to untie it. Forensic investigators usually wear gloves and try not to disturb evidence when collecting evidence. So assuming the cushion was taken as evidence I can see where LE would rather just cut the ties with scissors rather than trying to handle a knot and further disturb the evidence. A cut with scissors makes the most sense for forensic investigators to do in order to get the cushion off and take it as evidence.

Brings up bad feelings now that the cushion may have indeed had blood splatter on it.

 

[CarGoVroomVroom]

Can someone explain to me the reason for so much chair discussion? Help me get the full picture. What is needed here?

 

[photographer4]

the chair may not have been the first thing the bullet hit, and that wouldn't mean it hit a person first. most bullets will go threw multiple walls and after the first impact start to tumble thus causing a more splintering effect than it would on the first thing hit. there are rounds designed though to break up and tumble at first impact.

Maybe a ricochet? Hadn't considered this!

 

[photographer4]

Thanks to all who are sharing thoughts and these good closeups.

You could be right that maybe the pink stuff is a piece of the inner cushion material. I wonder if LE removed the cushion altogether because I only see the ties at the back and I think the ties were cut to cut off the cushion maybe.

We have chairs with cushions that tie to the chair like that and usually if you untie it then the ties stay with the cushion. It looks to me the cushion was cut off by LE.

Maybe the cushion did have blood staining on it and LE did not want it in the photo possibly or to take the cushion as evidence.

The only other thought about the pink stuff is maybe it was insulation from inside a wall if a bullet passed through a wall first and some of the pink insulation ended up there.

ETA
It would make sense to me that LE cut off the cushion rather than try to untie it. Forensic investigators usually wear gloves and try not to disturb evidence when collecting evidence. So assuming the cushion was taken as evidence I can see where LE would rather just cut the ties with scissors rather than trying to handle a knot and further disturb the evidence. A cut with scissors makes the most sense for forensic investigators to do in order to get the cushion off and take it as evidence.

Brings up bad feelings now that the cushion may have indeed had blood splatter on it.

If there was a cushion, I'd expect it was bagged and tagged. I was looking at the knot - I remember another case where knots figured in somehow, and LE thought there may be DNA from a perp INSIDE the knot (on the rope), but the knot was so detailed, it was also a good clue, so they were torn as to whether or not to untie it. I wonder if that is the case here? I can't recall which case involved the knots before ya ask...

 

[Hatfield]

Can someone explain to me the reason for so much chair discussion? Help me get the full picture. What is needed here?

JMO
At least for me on cases like this, where there is sometimes not a lot to go on, I personally like to examine the things that we can see and know about. Tangible things that we can find out about.

It could possibly lead to something helpful in the discussions. Other times it may not help much but at least it serves the purpose of keeping the interest in the case.

The worst thing is when a case goes completely cold and nothing left to really talk about. We have had way too many cases that go completely cold and no arrest or resolution. I hope this case can be solved soon and hope she is found safe.

 

[cody22]

Maybe a ricochet? Hadn't considered this!

Maybe a missed shot ?

 

[Hatfield]

If there was a cushion, I'd expect it was bagged and tagged. I was looking at the knot - I remember another case where knots figured in somehow, and LE thought there may be DNA from a perp INSIDE the knot (on the rope), but the knot was so detailed, it was also a good clue, so they were torn as to whether or not to untie it. I wonder if that is the case here? I can't recall which case involved the knots before ya ask...

I agree and it surprises me that LE left part of the ties there if they did cut off the cushion. Seems they would have taken that part too.

I had wondered if maybe the cushion was hanging out the back still but it sure looks like it is gone.

 

[BlinkOfAnI]

Thanks for the input- amazing what is left out of LEADS and still what manages to stay in sometimes. Yes, many go unregistered, uncharged, and think of the juvenile histories that are sealed/expunged and/or forgotten about as time goes on. Endless possible suspects.

It can be quite maddening lol. Especially with courts having online records that have cases not on LEADS. Some judges accept those cases but others feel BCI/LEADS is the bible of criminal history. As for juvenile records, they are sealed in general but are available to LE and for PSI's in our state. I can't tell you how many def's are in court for sentencing and say "I thought those records were sealed" LOL. Even with that there are some judges that accept juvenile records but others that don't. Every judge is different.

 

[Hatfield]

Maybe a missed shot ?

JMO
That is likely too.