AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #24

Status
Not open for further replies.
Something kept nagging me about Jayme's dog, Molly being shaved. Others said it could be routine grooming and I get that. I guess what bothered me was why now? This families life has to be a 24/7 nightmare being pulled in a million directions, not to mention trying to reconcile the tragic deaths and missing niece. Yet they wanted he dog groomed in the midst of it? Possibly. I think it has more to do with evidence. Hair, saliva. urine, feces. Any of which could be on the perp/s, in their car, anywhere, without their knowledge.Not to mention Mollys' hair being tested. I started reading about animal DNA solving crimes and it is it's own science. The UK actually has it's own CODIS for it. I am truly hoping this is the case. Here is a link with a few examples for anyone interested. JMO
Pet CSI: How Dog And Cat DNA Nabs Bad Guys
How Animal DNA Puts Killers Behind Bars
Nice research. I was afraid to bring Molly the dog back up but I am glad you did. The delay in obtaining her fur interested me because she did not look shaved in that first presser with the two heartbroken aunts. I think LE would have vacuumed the crime scene for evidence. I wondered if they found any sort of animal hairs like cat, horse, cow or non-Molly dog hairs like red or brown or coarse, long hairs, and then realized they should obtain a lot of Molly's fur from all parts of her body for comparison. The suspect could also work at the veterinarian office, the sort of peripheral person who has encountered Jayme.

Every criminal leaves something at the scene.
 
It would be great if u could look at cell phones hitting tower last 24 months.
If perp isn’t local u would think they would be able to narrow down.... although that’s gotta be large no
Of cell phones to go through.

I don't think it would be useful to look at 24 months of cell tower data, only data for the evening and hours of the abduction matter.
 
I would guess that literally thousands of devices pinged that tower. Odds of tracking down the perp that way are about as good as going door to door.

A typical cellphone has enough power to reach a cell tower up to 45 miles away. Depending on the technology of the cellphone network, the maximum distance may be as low as 22 miles because the signal otherwise takes too long for the highly accurate timing of the cellphone protocol to work reliably.

So a tower will be able to receive pings for up to 45 miles away, thats a 90 mile circle.

There isn’t much in a 45 mile radius from there. Lots of forest
 
I understand. If we doubt the earwitness account about the timing of the shots, and the number of shots, then we have even less information to work with. This would allow us to imagine many more scenarios about what may have happened.
I don't see any reason to doubt it. However, the police chief said on the radio interview that they were in the house fo an extremely short amount of time. In and out. For that to be true he'd have to be discounting the neighbours testimony. Though I don't see what exactly he could have that would allow him to come to that conclusion.
 
"ADVISED OF A POSSIBLE SUICIDE ATTEMPT" was how it was dispatched. That didn't come from first responders.

I don't think it was shocked reaction coming from the dispatcher. I firmly believe something led the 911 dispatcher to believe it was a possible suicide call.
Based on quotes referenced here, it seems both victims were DOA.
An" Attempt", I would take to mean, victim is not deceased yet...but died shortly after first responders arrived.
The comment made to dispatch makes no sense!
Moo
 
Nice research. I was afraid to bring Molly the dog back up but I am glad you did. The delay in obtaining her fur interested me because she did not look shaved in that first presser with the two heartbroken aunts. I think LE would have vacuumed the crime scene for evidence. I wondered if they found any sort of animal hairs like cat, horse, cow or non-Molly dog hairs like red or brown or coarse, long hairs.

Every criminal leaves something at the scene.
That or took a hair or 2.
 
Regardless of when or why it happened, we know it was an error that was initially circulated. Similarly, if police entered a scene with two people down, signs of a struggle, and lots of blood, they may have made the wrong initial assessment.

Just my opinion but I don't think the initial dispatch should be dismissed as "it was an error" or "it was a shocked reaction of first responders" (it wasn't).

Obviously we know it wasn't a suicide. But WHAT made the 911 dispatcher think it was?
 
I don't see any reason to doubt it. However, the police chief said on the radio interview that they were in the house fo an extremely short amount of time. In and out. For that to be true he'd have to be discounting the neighbours testimony. Though I don't see what exactly he could have that would allow him to come to that conclusion.

11:30 to midnight is a short amount of time. Why would that exclude the earwitness testimony?
 
Cell phones are located using triangulation, and since the house was somewhat rural, many phones can be ruled out because they are not within the triangulation area. Other phones can be ruled out because they are assigned to a local residence. If the abductor is local, then this method of identifying a suspect will not work. If the abductor is not local, then it may be one method to identify a list of potential suspects.

My only point is that the suspect does not have to be identified to know where his cell phone was on the night of the abduction. Cell towers will identify phones that were in the area and a suspect can be identified based on a review of phones in the area at the time of the abduction. Reasons this may not work are that the suspect's phone was turned off prior to approaching the house, or the phone belongs in the area because the suspect is local.

I believe turning off the phone nor removing the battery does not affect the ability to track a phone. IMO
 
Maybe they just wanted to groom the dog since she will be living with them now. Like, when it's your own dog, you might get a little bit behind on grooming, but when you first get a dog you take them and get them spiffed up. That one article that said she (the dog) is sleeping with Jayme's sweatshirt so she could smell her got me all misty. It seems they will take good care of the doggo. MOO
 
I'm

I was actually thinking in reverse(not the dog having someones DNA) but as mentioned in the articles. Who would have thought any of it possible?
So I did some reading on veterinary forensics, and its possible as well that the aunt may have been asked to collect the dog poop and send it to LE for testing - I was surprised to find out what all dog poop might actually contain that could be of forensic evidentiary value! They probably would have scraped under the dogs nails for anything as well... Plus, if they find a suspect or clothing they think may have been at / from the scene, they may even confirm it using hair from the dog (eg: if her hair is found on clothing, it could help place the clothing in the home / at the scene etc). Interesting stuff to read!
 
I think they would be able to determine that quite quickly. Every device has a unique IP address, sites like facebook could easily provide data that would show from what IP addresses her account had been accessed. If there are regular occurrences of different IPs then it is safe to say she was using a second device.
unless she was using a system like snapchat or facetime or an app she only had an account to on that phone. My son made a completely seperate facebook account under a different name just to talk on the hidden phone so that I coudln't see when he was online
 
Why do you say that? Seems like they gave an exact time, not an estimate. Police adjusted for the time difference the next morning.

This is what the neighbours had to say as reported by the mailonline dated 22 October 2018:

The neighbors of Jayme Closs have revealed to DailyMail.com that they heard two loud gunshots more than 20 minutes before police received a 911 call.
Authorities arrived at Jayme's Barron, Wisconsin home at 12.58am last Monday, four minutes after receiving a call from help from her mother Denise Closs' cell phone. It was there they found the bodies of Denise and James Closs and realized that their 13-year-old daughter was nowhere to be found.
Now Joan and Tom Smrekar are left wondering what could have been if they had called 911 when they heard first heard the gunshots.

Joan, 66, told DailyMail.com that she and Tom, 69, were lying in bed when they heard the first gunshot. It was followed by a second, just a couple of seconds later. Joan said that it was not uncommon to hear hunters out shooting in the area but the lateness and the sheer volume of these shots made her feel they were 'different'. 'They were so close, it must have been right at their door. I asked my husband, "Was that a gunshot?" He said, "Yes, and that's a big gun,"' she recalled. 'I rolled over and my clock said it was 12.38am. But I know it's off by seven minutes or so, so it was more like 12.30am.'

To her abiding and bitter regret, Joan did not call 911. She got up and noticed that their dog Zobie seemed bothered by something but wasn't barking. 'When the FBI came and we learned what those shots were, right away I thought maybe if I had called we might have made a difference,' Joan said as she fought back tears. 'Jayme might not have been taken because when the 911 call was made at 12.54am or something like that the police were there in four minutes.' 'If they had been there four minutes after the shots, Jayme might not have been taken.'

Joan and Tom said they did not know their neighbors well and had little interaction with them. According to Joan, FBI officers who interviewed her and Tom told them that there was only one word that could be made out of the 911 call from Denise's cell. 'They said they could hear the word, "Help!" but nothing else,' she revealed. 'There was too much noise.'

I wonder when LE interviewed them if anyone checked the Smrekar's bedroom clock to confirm it WAS 7 minutes fast as stated by Mrs S?
 
What are the legal issues with getting that data?
I would guess that they would have a very hard time getting a complete dump of all the data. Phone companies have no problem helping out pinpointing the whereabouts of a specific bad guy, however I doubt very much that they would want to turn over private information of thousands of innocent people to track a bad guy down.
 
So I did some reading on veterinary forensics, and its possible as well that the aunt may have been asked to collect the dog poop and send it to LE for testing - I was surprised to find out what all dog poop might actually contain that could be of forensic evidentiary value! They probably would have scraped under the dogs nails for anything as well... Plus, if they find a suspect or clothing they think may have been at / from the scene, they may even confirm it using hair from the dog (eg: if her hair is found on clothing, it could help place the clothing in the home / at the scene etc). Interesting stuff to read!
TY for taking the time to read that.
 
I don't see any reason to doubt it. However, the police chief said on the radio interview that they were in the house fo an extremely short amount of time. In and out. For that to be true he'd have to be discounting the neighbours testimony. Though I don't see what exactly he could have that would allow him to come to that conclusion.

I see a lot of reason to question that the perp gained entry, killed two people, kidnapped another one and vanished into the night with a teenager on LE's four minute time line.

I'm WAY more inclined to believe that James and Denise were killed when the neighbor reported the two shots. Which would mean that most likely Jayme then got ahold of her moms phone and made that 911 call.

I saw it reported somewhere that the officers felt the phone had been kicked based on where they found it. The commotion in the distance that LE has reported makes me believe Jayme was caught making the call. The perp grabbed her away from the phone, walked back, hit end and kicked the phone and left immediately with Jayme.
 
Having read most of the preceding threads (I skip a page now and then) and considered the various theories, here's mine:

I think that Jayme was the target, and that the intention was to take her and sell her into sex slavery -- possibly to a highest bidder on a Dark Web location, or to a specific individual somewhere in the world.

I think that this murder/kidnap was carried out by individuals who had some previous experience both with killings and kidnappings. I think 2 individuals were involved in the actions that night, that both wore gloves to prevent fingerprints and wore caps or hats of some type that would be most likely to not allow any of their hair to fall to carpets and the like during the commission of the crime.

I strongly think that although the actual perpetrators likely did not and do not live in the community area of Barron, they know a third individual who does live and work there. This third individual may or may not have worked at Jennie-O, but as a community member was aware that Jayme was an only child of "that age" and very likely to be a virgin still (which matters to some people), and lived with just her parents in this somewhat secluded house right on a major roadway. With just her name and the names of her parents, any or all of these 3 individuals could have looked them up on Facebook and gained a pretty fair understanding of who they were and generally how they lived. With the address and Google Maps they could have looked at the property and noted the layout generally of the house, where the nearest neighbors were, and what roads ran where.

I think that given Jayme's gender, age and coloring plus her clean all-American overall looks, these individuals either already knew or firmly believed that they could make a lot of money by taking her and selling her. The 2 individuals who did the actual acts may be members of one of the several gangs that operate out of the larger cities in Wisconsin, and this is how they have the type of contacts to arrange for sales of this kind. I also think they came from one of the cities. and this explains the "shock and awe" entrance to the Closs home and the summary killing of James and Denise -- to gang members, they were totally expendable and a fast in-and-out was necessary. If they can sell Jayme for a million dollars or even half that, they are set up for life (or so they believe ... in the real world, money goes fast).

If not currently gang members, they likely have been in the past and had participation in some events of this type somewhere.

They probably did not use their own cars or, if so, they had stolen plates to put on them. The individual who lives locally in the Barron area may have recently quit his job and left the area, or will do so when he (presumably) receives his monetary "cut" from the sale. Either way, he may still be there as he would not want to make himself conspicuous by moving very close to the time the murders/kidnapping happened.

I think that Barron was agreed upon because it's a small town and the police force doesn't have experience with these types of crimes. But Barron is pretty close to Rice Lake and Eau Claire, and they probably went first to or through those towns which are larger and provide more "traffic cover" so to speak. Possibly the FBI has been or will be parsing the Dark Web for clues that could relate to this particular kidnapping.

IMHO, the above answers all the questions about "why" and potentially "who". The Sheriff and FBI need to do background checks into the lives of any individuals at Jennie-O or otherwise in the community who may have served as the local "lookout individual" who probably has seen Jayme around the area and selected her as a good candidate and either broached the whole idea to his buddies in whatever city, or knew they were thinking about doing something like this and gave Jayme's name and info out to them.
Not my top theories, but I agree this scenario is possible. I don't know what a child sold like this would be worth though. Europeans and Americans don't find Jayme's coloring so rare, but it is very rare worldwide. Didn't the Barbary pirates and Ottomon Turks used to kidnap blondes and redheads for their harems?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
230
Guests online
4,091
Total visitors
4,321

Forum statistics

Threads
593,296
Messages
17,984,081
Members
229,082
Latest member
RyanO9600
Back
Top