OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#38

[Trudie]

Interesting that AW requested to be in street wear and no shackles. It would make it much easier to try an escape, since escaping was discussed between them also according to DeWine....

This isn’t an unusual request & one that is normally granted. It’s often been stated the defendant appears guilty in prison garb/chains.
Idk who can deliver clothes to her. Everyone’s in jail or on house arrest.

 

[Trudie]

I think JW was probably ok with the arrangement that HMR and him had. One week on One week off. I think it was more Angela wanting the little girl, because she didn't have a girl of her own and she see SW as her girl she never had. I think she was pushing JW to get HMR to sign SW over to him so she could raise SW.... I think she was the Mastermind of the entire planning of the murders. She had to get her mother to forge the paperwork, she had to get rid of HMR and her parents so they wouldn't gain custody of SW. HMR and JW was never married so CR1 and DR could had possibly gotten SW, if something just happened to HMR. I think the others was killed to make sure they would not figure out who killed the others and maybe come after them. This story is not going to just be a simple plan and murder, it's going to be things that people never thought of..... I think AW sent GW3 to talk to CR1, about getting HMR to sign over custody, I think they had word and possibly ended up in a fight. I think GW4 didn't take to well to someone fighting with his daddy, so he got upset. I think JW was more upset with HMR moving on and being with other guys than he was the custody issue. So that is how she got them all to go alone with the plan. This is JMO......

Interesting theory.

Can you update me on the truck driving job the boys had? When did they quit, etc? TIA

 

[rsd1200]

While it was not a violent history,
G3 even flashed a firearm at someone in a road rage incident.
BBM

Pulling a gun on someone in a road rage incident is a violent history.

Billy could have shot and killed whoever he pulled the gun on. That is why it is a crime to point a gun and threaten someone. That is also why road rage is a crime. Given what we know about Billy now it is only by the grace of God that man he pointed the gun at is still alive.

I would lay money on Fred knowing that Billy was capable of killing someone. A mother always knows if her child is capable of violent behavior no matter how much she tries to deny it to others. There are always signs, often from a very young age. The temper tantrums, the hurting siblings and pets. The lack of empathy for others.

I would lay money on Bobby and Robin knowing he was capable of it too. They might not have wanted to believe it because of the upheaval it would cause in their own lives, but I am betting that both or at least Bobby is relieved that Billy and crew is in jail. Him not showing up in court for any of them speaks volumes. The belief that Billy is capable of hurting or killing someone may be why Bobby elected to split with the family and move his own wife and kids out of harms way.

JMO

He didn't point it at them. Even the driver of the other car said that he didn't. He held the pistol in the air and showed it to the other driver. It's not cool, at all, but it's kind of like a rattlesnake shaking its rattles to warn you, stay away.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

Asking to take the DP off the table could also be an admission of guilt. As in "I am guilty and I know I am going to be found guilty by the jury because the evidence is overwhelming but I don't want to die of lethal injection so please remove that possibility from the table".

IMO innocent people don't ask to have their sentence reduced before the case even goes to trial.

JMO

It’s a legal delaying tactics same that could be 4 case going never through 3-10 hearings and rulings and probably also used to increase the cost of the 4 trials.

If the others file as well that’s 4 different cases going as far as perhaps SCOTUS. IT CAN take time as a delaying tactic and can cost the State of Ohio a truckload of money.

Public Defenders are paid if they are in their office or at trial. But the State of Ohio is paying Prosecutors, public defenders, LE and maybe 50 support staff.

Pike county is getting some help from the legislature but they are going to need a heck of a lot more.

Admit it or not lawyers use this all the time in poor jurisdictions.

Expect more complaints against the prosecution team. This is going to look like any other court proceeding, but it will get nasty due to the characters involved.

 

[OsoTejano]

I couldn't screen grab the image from the page, but the photo captioned "Hanna Rhoden after giving birth to her daughter Kylie on April 17. " Does that look like an engagement ring?

IDK, but it’s on the correct finger for an engagement ring.
Also doesn't’ look like it was tatted on like JW has.

 

[Trudie]

While it was not a violent history,
G3 even flashed a firearm at someone in a road rage incident.
BBM

Pulling a gun on someone in a road rage incident is a violent history.

Billy could have shot and killed whoever he pulled the gun on. That is why it is a crime to point a gun and threaten someone. That is also why road rage is a crime. Given what we know about Billy now it is only by the grace of God that man he pointed the gun at is still alive.

I would lay money on Fred knowing that Billy was capable of killing someone. A mother always knows if her child is capable of violent behavior no matter how much she tries to deny it to others. There are always signs, often from a very young age. The temper tantrums, the hurting siblings and pets. The lack of empathy for others.

I would lay money on Bobby and Robin knowing he was capable of it too. They might not have wanted to believe it because of the upheaval it would cause in their own lives, but I am betting that both or at least Bobby is relieved that Billy and crew is in jail. Him not showing up in court for any of them speaks volumes. The belief that Billy is capable of hurting or killing someone may be why Bobby elected to split with the family and move his own wife and kids out of harms way.

JMO

I agree. I’ve posted that once news of the crime broke Fred & Bobby must’ve had an “OH OH” moment. And, the climate around G3 was “tiptoe”, lets you ire him.
I hesitate to judge based on appearances, but he looks to be the “explosive” type. His size alone is intimidating.
Many pages back I said Bobby’s absence in court does not speak volumes, it SCREAMS.
I just can’t hold the family responsible for G3s actions.
We all know how difficult it is to get “help” for someone.
I believe James Holmes mom made a few attempts to get him some help.
And, other than a few recently thwarted school shootings, most calls to LE about a “possible” crime are merely reports.
If I tell you I am going to rob the local convenient store tonight, you call LE & they visit me, I’m going to deny or tell them I was kidding.
Truthfully, I would not be surprised if Fred, too, finds relief in G3s arrest. Before his rage could again erupt.
I’m sure it saddens her the boys are involved & I'm guessing she places the blame squarely on their parents.

 

[Myland]

It’s a legal delaying tactics same that could be 4 case going never through 3-10 hearings and rulings and probably also used to increase the cost of the 4 trials.

If the others file as well that’s 4 different cases going as far as perhaps SCOTUS. IT CAN take time as a delaying tactic and can cost the State of Ohio a truckload of money.

Public Defenders are paid if they are in their office or at trial. But the State of Ohio is paying Prosecutors, public defenders, LE and maybe 50 support staff.

Pike county is getting some help from the legislature but they are going to need a heck of a lot more.

Admit it or not lawyers use this all the time in poor jurisdictions.

Expect more complaints against the prosecution team. This is going to look like any other court proceeding, but it will get nasty due to the characters involved.

Jmo Sherriffs investigation has been coming for a long time. It is NOT because of the Wagners. However, will it effect Wagner case, maybe. As long as the funds were used for other Official Sheriff Department Business, not that big of a deal as far as the case, but if funds used for personal gain, there could be a problem.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

One of the motions filed by AW’s lawyers states “disclosure of the juvenile records of plaintiff’s witnesses”.

Does anyone know what that means or have any input as to why the defense would want juvenile records of witnesses?

 

[Trudie]

The CI that the prosecution has is being very well protected. This witness is a very important piece of the so called puzzle. I would not think the CI has been in the court room due to prosecution not wanting to take a chance till they testify. Especially not at all the their hearings they have had, like RW has been, because more than likely the 4 would know who it is. RW has been at all of them. I do not believe she is the CI and RAW I don't think he is very close to GW3 and his family, so I don't see them talking in front of him. I think the CI will be the least expected person anyone thinks of. Thinking outside of the box will probably be were the answer is. JMO

Kaaky, as soon as each of the 4 heard the charges, they should have had a “light bulb” moment & recalled their convo at Fred’s and remember anyone else in the room. So yeah, they know. I’m 50-50 between “Doe” being RW or RAW. Because, I honestly believe, both were able to put 2 + 2 together & get 4, early on and did not want their mom tied up in this mess. Obviously, they had implicit trust in “Doe”, to talk in front of him. Idk if Fred was possibly helping extract info for “Doe’s” benefit. As in she knew “Doe” was working with LE. She knew this had to end, eventually. If RAW to,d her he was going to turn G3 in, she could not tell G3, she knows that would have resulted in another killing. I’m sure she was terrified of what potentially might happen. I don’t think for one moment she wanted a big shoot out.

Not always, but at times, the identity of the CI is not revealed in the course of the trial. Mostly, if the CI is undercover LE in large drug, money laundering or human trafficking stings and the CI is going to continue working another aspect of the case.
In this case, I see no reason to conceal his identity, the 4 ain't coming out for revenge. MOO

 

[Charliegizmo49]

Asking to take the DP off the table could also be an admission of guilt. As in "I am guilty and I know I am going to be found guilty by the jury because the evidence is overwhelming but I don't want to die of lethal injection so please remove that possibility from the table".

IMO innocent people don't ask to have their sentence reduced before the case even goes to trial.

JMO

It’s a legal delaying tactic with 4 cases going through 3-10 hearings and rulings and is probably also used to increase the cost of the 4 trials.

If the others file as well that’s 4 different cases going as far as perhaps SCOTUS. IT CAN take time as a delaying tactic and can cost the State of Ohio a truckload of money.

Public Defenders are paid if they are in their office or at trial. But the State of Ohio is paying Prosecutors, public defenders, LE and maybe 50 support staff.

Pike county is getting some help from the legislature but they are going to need a heck of a lot more.

Admit it or not lawyers use this all the time in poor jurisdictions.

Expect more complaints against the prosecution team. This is going to look like any other court proceeding, but it will get nasty due to the character

Jmo Sherriffs investigation has been coming for a long time. It is NOT because of the Wagners. However, will it effect Wagner case, maybe. As long as the funds were used for other Official Sheriff Department Business, not that big of a deal as far as the case, but if funds used for personal gain, there could be a problem.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

Jmo Sherriffs investigation has been coming for a long time. It is NOT because of the Wagners. However, will it effect Wagner case, maybe. As long as the funds were used for other Official Sheriff Department Business, not that big of a deal as far as the case, but if funds used for personal gain, there could be a problem.

It’s over grants that the previous Sheriff was awarded. Looks like Reader may not have been aware that many grants or Counties have restrictions limiting what kind of equipment can be purchased. I don’t believe at this point it involves any missing or misspent funds. Just used to buy the wrong class of equipment.

 

[Chelly]

The CI that the prosecution has is being very well protected. This witness is a very important piece of the so called puzzle. I would not think the CI has been in the court room due to prosecution not wanting to take a chance till they testify. Especially not at all the their hearings they have had, like RW has been, because more than likely the 4 would know who it is. RW has been at all of them. I do not believe she is the CI and RAW I don't think he is very close to GW3 and his family, so I don't see them talking in front of him. I think the CI will be the least expected person anyone thinks of. Thinking outside of the box will probably be were the answer is. JMO

If there is a CI, I think it is RW. She needed to be at every hearing. Her absence would be a give away.

Also, does anyone think the W's home was bugged by LE and that the CI wore a wire?

 

[Trudie]

One of the motions filed by AW’s lawyers states “disclosure of the juvenile records of plaintiff’s witnesses”.

Does anyone know what that means or have any input as to why the defense would want juvenile records of witnesses?

I’m guessing in effort to tarnish testimony of someone in the R family, that’s going to testify. AW might know of some infraction they had, years ago, as a Juvie.

What’s your guess?

 

[Trudie]

If there is a CI, I think it is RW. She needed to be at every hearing. Her absence would be a give away.

Also, does anyone think the W's home was bugged by LE and that the CI wore a wire?

I think a wire was involved.
As far as RW, she was my first guess. Even if she is the CI, it does not mean she can’t still love & support her family.
I think she may have been in attendance at Fred’s request.
Remember, the 4 have been under 24/7 surveillance, they just didn’t realize it.
Per the CI, MOO, someone close found out definitively the 4 were involved & went to LE. LE needed “proof” other than someone saying so & so said this & that. So, the plan was hatched. Of course, there was no way to know if the CI could or would ever get more info. He would need to behave in normal fashion, etc.
if the convo took place at Fred’s, the CI is someone the 4 are accustomed to talking in front of, someone they felt to be on their side & someone they felt would not dare betray them. In the course of their fireside chats, maybe Fred suggested “let’s see what Bobby (or RW) thinks of this......., thereby introducing a new member to the party. That someone then decides “Whoa, I’m not going down with them, nor are they taking my mom down”.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

One of the motions filed by AW’s lawyers states “disclosure of the juvenile records of plaintiff’s witnesses”.

Does anyone know what that means or have any input as to why the defense would want juvenile records of witnesses?

Goes to character of witnesses. In other words they know something that could probably discredit a probable witness. They want to be able to probably unseal a juvenile record and see exactly what it says and be able use it to question their believability or to slam credibility.

 

[OsoTejano]

I'm not so sure about that. The charges were filed by Junk, the county prosecutor, not by anyone's defense attorney.

Charges are not filed by defense attorneys. AFAIK from what I have read, this is just in the investigatory stage with no indictments yet. An accusation has been made by someone ( quite possibly one or more of the defense attorneys) and it is the responsibility of the DA (Junk) to initiate an investigation. If the accusations were related to the cases, it would not be all that surprising if it came from one of the Ws’ defense teams. Probably going to see more of this kind of stuff before all is said and done.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Goes to character of witnesses. In other words they know something that could probably discredit a probable witness. They want to be able to probably unseal a juvenile record and see exactly what it says and be able use it to question their believability or to slam credibility.

Can juvenile records be unsealed for a murder trial? I’m not familiar with how that all works but I thought once juvenile records were sealed, they remained sealed because the person was a child as the time a record occurred.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

I’m guessing in effort to tarnish testimony of someone in the R family, that’s going to testify. AW might know of some infraction they had, years ago, as a Juvie.

What’s your guess?

I’m not sure. We know of three people considered witnesses because they discovered the victims. So I’m wondering if those three are who the defense is trying to get juvenile records on. I think it’s unfair. Those 3 witnesses are also victims of this crime.

 

[Myland]

It’s over grants that the previous Sheriff was awarded. Looks like Reader may not have been aware that many grants or Counties have restrictions limiting what kind of equipment can be purchased. I don’t believe at this point it involves any missing or misspent funds. Just used to buy the wrong class of equipment.

Jmo but it is an investigation and we don’t know for sure it is over that. That happened a while back. Junk stated he was alerted of this item on Thursday.

 

[iridized]

I think so too. This crime is so heinous, so premeditated, and has received an incredible amount of publicity. Definitely the highest profile case Ohio has ever had.

I believe you are incorrect as to this being the highest profile case Ohio ever had. The Sam Shepard case was a much higher profile case as well as the federal court civil action for wrongful death and injury, an eleven-week trial, brought by the Kent State victims and their families against Governor Rhodes, the President of Kent State, and the National Guardsmen. I live in the 11th largest media market and there isn't coverage here. There was one little story on CNN about the arrests and nothing more. People around the country can not, and do not, relate to the victims of this crime.