CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #16 *ARREST*

[jillianelaine]

Lots of blood evidence. Perhaps a weapon with her DNA on it. It's impossible to completely clean the scene. Say he shot her with a gun with a silencer or stabbed her or slit her throat. There would be blood everywhere. She has hardwood floors. Wood is porous and every crevice would have her blood in it. The cleaned up blood would still show up with luminol. Then they would take the surfaces to test for her blood/her DNA. MOO.

So even cleaned up, the floorboards could prove that the amount of blood which was detected was consistent with death. Thanks for explaining! So much for my photograph theory!

 

[Jazzy5980]

This makes sense...the state is already on fire from Chris Watts. There would be the concern that people are emotionally vested and upset and can’t separate the two cases. Making sure it is clear this was a “crime of passion” due to his head injury vs premeditated. There is an angle in this I’m sure...

What evidence is there that PF suffered a brain injury? All I’ve seen is a third party report in the Daily Mail stating he was kicked.

 

[Trudie]

Interesting points. But that in itself seems unlikely to warrant Murder in the 1st.... This is what I can not place my finger on. Seems they'd require a lot of blood, or a photo, or something more substantial. I can not believe he'd leave volumes of blood behind, and they have no body. I keep thinking he may have been foolish enough to have taken a photo and sent it to someone. Sent it from a throw-away phone--or what ever they're called these days. Any idea on what else might suffice as efficient evidence that she was dead?

Obviously I know nothing regarding evidence left behind. I have considered he strangled/suffocated her. Less messy & recently in the news, thanks to CW. PF looks to be very strong, IMO. I’m sure he’s in good shape. Working with cattle & horses requires strength. I know, hay bales are heavy.

 

[Trudie]

What evidence is there that PF suffered a brain injury? All I’ve seen is a third party report in the Daily Mail stating he was kicked.

Ditto. Anyone that’s had a horse more than a day has been kicked, IMO.
Wonder if he was badly injured at a rodeo? Just a thought.

 

[Ccging]

It’s so confusing, I heard Safeway, that KB delivered the child to PF & that PF picked the child up. If the exchange did take place at the grocery store, why no video? You know, “this is the last known sighting, putting her child in the fathers truck”.

Agreed. I’m still stuck on that they have video of her going into the store but not leaving??? Video of her leaving would be the last “confirmed sighting”. I keep thinking did she never leave Safeway??

 

[Trudie]

Ok probably gonna get some haters on this but he’s refusing psychiatric care because he knew full well what he was planning. I think this is good as he is not going to plead insanity. IMO cold and calculating!

I think the med/psych care means no more than PF refuses to speak with a counselor or credentialed staff. A lot of jails have such personnel on stand by to determine if a person is suicidal and/or requires medication. He just ain’t talkin’ to anyone, IMO.

 

[Trudie]

Agreed. I’m still stuck on that they have video of her going into the store but not leaving??? Video of her leaving would be the last “confirmed sighting”. I keep thinking did she never leave Safeway??

Not sure what you mean. He did not kill her in Safeway.

 

[Jazzy5980]

Delete

 

[Ccging]

Not sure what you mean. He did not kill her in Safeway.

I know, but if they have footage of her entering the store, where is the footage of her leaving? I would think they would have released both?

 

[PommyMommy]

it sounds as if she may have lived in the home with PF and his mom for a while and then moved out and got her own permanent place. at least that's is a possibility based on the report that she got her own place bc PF lived with his mom.

Kelsey's mother stated that KB and PF have never lived together.

I just want to clarify one thing from a legal standpoint, once and for all.

As the charges stand NOW (subject to additional charges possibly), PF has been charged with solicitation to commit first degree murder. Not anything to do with moving the body after, anything to do with shipping or transporting the phone after, anything to do with cleaning up the mess after.

Solicitation to commit first degree murder means he solicited someone to help him commit the act that caused her death, PRIOR to her death.

If someone complied, perhaps we will see a conspiracy charge come up. If someone helped him after the fact, perhaps we'll see accessory after the fact come up. If someone helped him during, we might see an accessory to murder 1 charge.

But as it is now, he went to someone and asked for help killing KB prior to her murder happening. AND he is charged with murder 1. This was fully premeditated, not in the heat of passion, not a snapped situation, not second degree.

THANK YOU!

My wording was bad! What kind of evidence do you think LE has to make the claim she is dead. Assuming he cleaned the scene where she died, it seems unlikely there'd be enough blood to make that call.

Lots of blood evidence. Perhaps a weapon with her DNA on it. It's impossible to completely clean the scene. Say he shot her with a gun with a silencer or stabbed her or slit her throat. There would be blood everywhere. She has hardwood floors. Wood is porous and every crevice would have her blood in it. The cleaned up blood would still show up with luminol. Then they would take the surfaces to test for her blood/her DNA. MOO.

This is from one of the first motions filed (12/21) and leads me to believe LE has blood evidence.

"Defendant moves this Court to order the Office of the District Attorney to preserve all physical evidence collected in this case to include, but not limited to, any consumptive testing on blood, tissue, and body fluids, and requests a hearing prior to any consumptive testing and prior to the release of any evidence. As grounds, Defendant states:

1. Defendant will be making independent evaluation of such items which are possibly material evidence and potentially exculpatory in this case and which the defense may wish to have tested.

2. If the prosecution will be conducting tests on items of evidence that may be consumptive or destructive, the defense may wish to have an expert present."

(cont. at link)
https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/04th_Judicial_District/Teller/caseofinterest/2018CR330/001/MTN Preservation Phycisal Evidence.pdf

Happy Christmas Eve!
No resting today for PF's State Public Defenders.
That's good. He can't claim poor representation later on.
MOO.

Merry Christmas Eve to you!

 

[ZsaZsa]

I missed a head injury?!?!

A laceration, from a horse kick..

 

[LucyOso]

As someone who suffered a head injury in a horse accident I respectfully disagree with your assertions. Third party report he was kicked by a horse, however, no documentation he suffered a traumatic brain injury. Countless people suffer brain injuries every year and they do not not become calculated, cold blooded killers. Conversely, PF’s scheming, solicitation, planning is indicative of someone who is not experiencing long term problems if he did, in fact, suffer a head injury.

Hi Jazzy, I apologize if it appeared I generalized traumatic brain injury (TBI). I didn’t say ALL head injuries present like this. I also noted these were my thoughts related to this situation with him. Obviously there are degrees of severity, areas impacted, plasticity of the brain, and underlying personality traits. This also goes with mental health, there is no broad presentation. My posts in the past 7 years show I don’t categorize people based on things like this.

In this situation, I could see how this could snowball into murder as he had issues with a TBI. This is based on what I’ve read in MSM and on here and my clinical experience. Also personal experience. We don’t know if this was premeditated, what the soliciting was in relationship too, or if this was cold blooded. We don’t know what happened. It could have been in the moment, and LE is sticking anything the can on him to hold him. Apologies if I didn’t express my ideas more succinctly. Thanks

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Yeah, I bet! And why is that do we think? (wink)

Not sure.

 

[heartgoesout]

A laceration, from a horse kick..

Thanks! I can't find a link??

 

[ZsaZsa]

Bad reporting.

You know, I really think some if the reporters on this case have just scanned the Daily Mail every day and said "that'll do" and copied/pasted. So many errors.

 

[Gardener1850]

So even cleaned up, the floorboards could prove that the amount of blood which was detected was consistent with death. Thanks for explaining! So much for my photograph theory!

Yes. There could be a large puddle shape where her blood pooled. Or specks of blood splatter consistent with a gunshot to the head. Even cleaned up those spots where blood once was will glow when sprayed with luminol. Also, when they test the blood evidence-- say there are bits of her blood DNA in the cracks of her hardwood floors-- they can tell the difference if the blood came from say a paper cut versus blood that flows through the arteries. They might have found bits of her brain matter if she was shot in the head. If they find even a little of someone's brain on their ceiling it means the person is not living. I hate to be graphic but they will be able to tell a lot if this was a violent death inside her home. MOO.

 

[enelram]

I don't know how you all feel about PF lawyering up as soon as
she was reported missing but if someone close to me went
missing, getting a lawyer wouldn't even be on my radar.
Talking to LE and her family would be how I'd be spending my time. And maybe putting up flyers and pleading on TV.
To me it DOES show guilt.

 

[Penny4YourThoughts]

In a separate document filed by Frazee's public defender, Frazee also refuses medical/psychiatric care while in custody.

RSBM to ask: does anyone here know if it is standard to offer med/psych care to anyone in custody or does it indicate he presented w/ injuries &/or behaviors while in custody?

 

[ZsaZsa]

Thanks! I can't find a link??

Police return to search Patrick Frazee's ranch in disappearance of Kelsey Berreth | Daily Mail Online

 

[dixiegirl1035]

IMO, these are just standard defense motions that are filed in the beginning of most cases.

I've been comparing the Motions to Chris Watts case at
Colorado Judicial Branch