CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #16 *ARREST*

[Jennifer17]

Good point. But what about the smell of death. Were their cadaver dogs? And the human body releases its bowels I think after 2-3 hours. It would be a mess to put that into something.

Unless this was premeditated in detail minute by minute.

Death does not smell at the point of death and he may not have left her there for two or three hours.

 

[EmilyVan]

The baby looks like Cheryl in that pic to me. I hope they are finding some joy having her right now, they need something to cling to - I can't imagine not knowing where Kelsey is. Horrible to know she's dead but to not know what he did with her is even more agony. jmo

I *imagine* a sign-up sheet on CB's home fridge with family members lining up to sign up for any/all time slots for a turn to care for, hold, and just love on Baby K. I imagine a scenario where everyone is falling over themselves to get a chance to love on this child. I believe this is what is happening. IMO.

(sorry if the sign-up sheet sounds 'assignment-like' but when I request American Cancer Society to help with rides to treatments for patients - they arrange this via volunteers signing up for certain days/times/etc to do the driving).

MOO

 

[cluciano63]

I’m still not sure whether they had broken up, or had plans to spend the holidays together. Not sure we can make assumptions either way. Kelsey having spoken to her mother on the last day they spoke seems to indicate nothing was amiss. I doubt her mom completely invented the substance of their calls at that point...she had no reason to that we know of. Her aunt confuses the issue though. Wonder if could have spoken to Kelsey later that day? Although it hard to see when.

I think it is more likely that PF had decided some time prior to Thanksgiving that he wanted the baby, whether they had officially split or not. She may have been hinting that she missed her family, he may have taken that as a threat that she might move back to WA or to Idaho. Her buying her own own may have signaled to him that she was never moving to the house he lived in. Anyway...I am just rambling.

 

[Warwick7]

Death does not smell at the point of death and he may not have left her there for two or three hours.

Agreed....

 

[EmilyVan]

So.... I'm sorry to be blunt here. We see over and over these women and girls being murdered again and again. And again.

What's the consensus if there is one here on motive? One seems to be as deluded as the next, other woman, life insurance, "freedom", rage. It goes on and on.

Are there ideas that I'm missing on why this "cowboy" decided this loving mama, daughter, neighbor, woman decided should be murdered?

custody and/or not wanting to pay child support if/when they went to court to establish it.

 

[tmar]

A very special Christmas for me that year. A very special tribute, love song, promise and hope to the women lost, and the women saved. And to the team they always have here.

Reach out, listen and hear, love.

Good to see my old friends still advocating here.

Glad you've joined us here, Johnny.
Missed your soothing music.

 

[cluciano63]

I *imagine* a sign-up sheet on CB's home fridge with family members lining up to sign up for any/all time slots for a turn to care for, hold, and just love on Baby K. I imagine a scenario where everyone is falling over themselves to get a chance to love on this child. I believe this is what is happening. IMO.

(sorry if the sign-up sheet sounds 'assignment-like' but when I request American Cancer Society to help with rides to treatments for patients - they arrange this via volunteers signing up for certain days/times/etc to do the driving).

MOO

My niece and sister (her mom) are visiting my niece’s husband’s family this week, so many people are seeing their 6-month baby for the first time...she is being ogled, cuddled, photographed, passed around etc...everyone marveling over her. So your post made me think of it.

 

[gngr~snap]

Do we know if they were "facebook status" in or was ever "in a relationship" ? I realize facebook relationship status means nothing in the real world and people put all kinds of things out there online for show or image. I'm just curious if amongst their facebook/close friends if they were still acting like they were in a relationship. Or if things weren't good and they were kind of private/on the down low in terms of what their public image was amongst their friends. (Both their social media pages were pretty locked down to the public.)

There was a public post on a public musician's page that KB tagged PF on several weeks ago, but don't seem to have any significance, other than she was thinking of him and likely not hating him.

This breaks my heart knowing he was PLANNING TO END HER LIFE!!!

 

[Jennifer17]

I’m still not sure whether they had broken up, or had plans to spend the holidays together. Not sure we can make assumptions either way. Kelsey having spoken to her mother on the last day they spoke seems to indicate nothing was amiss. I doubt her mom completely invented the substance of their calls at that point...she had no reason to that we know of. Her aunt confuses the issue though. Wonder if could have spoken to Kelsey later that day? Although it hard to see when.

I think it is more likely that PF had decided some time prior to Thanksgiving that he wanted the baby, whether they had officially split or not. She may have been hinting that she missed her family, he may have taken that as a threat that she might move back to WA or to Idaho. Her buying her own own may have signaled to him that she was never moving to the house he lived in. Anyway...I am just rambling.

The aunt did not claim that they were broken up. She claimed that PF told KB's mother that he told her that. I have an idea that he did tell her that and he had a different version for LE.

 

[Warwick7]

"Investigators in Idaho, where 29-year-old Kelsey Berreth’s phone last pinged three days after her disappearance, announced in a statement Saturday that multiple search warrants were served along with the recovery of “some items” of evidence in Twin Falls, about two hours southeast of Boise."

https://www-foxnews-com.cdn.ampproj...e-found-in-search-for-colorado-mom-police-say

 

[Mom24]

I think KB outgrew him, emotionally, personally and professionally. She may have been more “demanding” of him as far as manning up and moving off of his momma’s “ranch”, by all indications I have noted he certainly doesn’t seem like the greatest catch IMO. Perhaps she had different goals than he did as far as where the relationship was or was not heading. She clearly was surrounded by professional people in her career and maybe began to realize that PF wasn’t going to change and cut the umbilical cord. Maybe he couldn’t handle the pressure of not living up to or meeting her needs, became increasingly resentful and because he has a fragile ego decided eliminating her would solve both their problems. Perhaps he felt emasculated or threatened by her independence and success, did she truly “need” him? All speculation on my part and not victim shaming whatsoever, living at moms while your baby girl and “fiancé” have a place of their own would be a deal breaker for me. In the end I hope she saw him for what he was and chose to break it off. He was never good enough for her.

Lies. I think the lies were catching up. I think he lied to Kelsey about who and what he was. He lied so successfully that she left her family and moved a great distance to be with him. He lied to her about why they had to postpone the wedding. He lied to her about his true intentions in regards to a commitment.
I also think he lied to his family about her. I believe he told them the baby wasn't his, that she was unstable and had substance abuse issues.
I think the lies were catching up and so he decided Kelsey had to go.

 

[cluciano63]

The aunt did not claim that they were broken up. She claimed that PF told KB's mother that he told her that. I have an idea that he did tell her that and he had a different version for LE.

Okay I was confused...thought her aunt and her mom said the different things at the beginning. Did not catch that PF had said that. Of course...they did “break up”on Thanksgiving...in a horrible way, so there was a sliver of truth in his lie...

 

[EmilyVan]

ETO.... kinda sick of these same stories again and again. She's dead, missing, raped, left for dead, beaten, all the same again and again. There must be something we can do to do better. There must be something. That's all.

my opinion ONLY: we can teach our sons and daughters to REALLY REALLY get to know someone before marriage (like 2+ years plus pre-marriage counseling, etc). And, then after vows, consummate. We can teach our children it's OK to wait for marriage before shedding clothes. IMO.
This is something I'm shoving down my 16 year old son's throat and have been for years. None of the above could do any harm. IMO

NO: I'm not victim shaming as PF engaged in conception too. If anything, I'm "society" blaming.

Our society has veered far away "conventional values". I know firsthand - I did similar (divorced when my kid was a baby) and sometimes blame my mom for teaching me to "follow your heart" instead of my brain.

MOO

 

[moonlessnight]

there are different kinds of criminals. it doesn't mean they are good people if they aren't always murderous or criminal. being a criminal doesn't mean they aren't charming. what's important is not to believe that just bc someone puts on a good show they can't be dangerous.

I mostly agree, though I think he just wanted the child by this point and not the relationship. But I think overall his arrest and alleged deeds are a shock to people who know him as he probably had decent relationships with friends, co-workers etc...children can be a tipping point in many ways, and to some, the ultimate focus. Look at how many murders of spouses lead back to custody issues. He is not the first (if this was his motive.) And in some past cases, the older or grown children still pledge their support to the convicted parent. So most likely, some of these people did not have every evil characteristic known to man all along, i.e I have seen folks here suggesting PF may be into child *advertiser censored*, or that he abused the baby...no sign of any of that. Just a man who went out of control over what his needs and wants dictated to the expense of anyone who got in his way.

So yes, this guy seemingly has done the worst possible thing a person can do. But maybe not every other bad things people do as well. Not much of a justification...just not seeing him as a natural born criminal from the cradle, instead rather just another overly entitled male who took the ultimate step to get his way. Jmojmojmojmo

 

[tmar]

Glad you've joined us here, Johnny.
Missed your soothing music.

O/T.
After hearing Beyonce, watched Josh on Britain's Got Talent.
The words apply here, but also to our missing loved ones.
If you want to have a good cry, and we need it, have a listen.
Simon left, very emotional.
Thanks for the good cry Johnny.

 

[EmilyVan]

My niece and sister (her mom) are visiting my niece’s husband’s family this week, so many people are seeing their 6-month baby for the first time...she is being ogled, cuddled, photographed, passed around etc...everyone marveling over her. So your post made me think of it.

awww!! and your reply made get all teary-eyed. I pray this is EXACTLY what's happening with Baby K. (in my heart I just know it is - how could it NOT be??).
MOO

 

[Charlot123]

Lies. I think the lies were catching up. I think he lied to Kelsey about who and what he was. He lied so successfully that she left her family and moved a great distance to be with him. He lied to her about why they had to postpone the wedding. He lied to her about his true intentions in regards to a commitment.
I also think he lied to his family about her. I believe he told them the baby wasn't his, that she was unstable and had substance abuse issues.
I think the lies were catching up and so he decided Kelsey had to go.

If he is a liar like this, then Patrick is a version of Scott Peterson.

Could it be so? Scott came across as a wonderful guy, was very caring, roses, champagne, delicate in his approach.
Women thought he had substance. IRL, I think his lying amounted to a disease. Personally, I have met such a liar only once in life, and to this day don't know how to call it.

It would be interesting to see what people say about Patrick.

 

[tmar]

I think KB outgrew him, emotionally, personally and professionally. She may have been more “demanding” of him as far as manning up and moving off of his momma’s “ranch”, by all indications I have noted he certainly doesn’t seem like the greatest catch IMO. Perhaps she had different goals than he did as far as where the relationship was or was not heading. She clearly was surrounded by professional people in her career and maybe began to realize that PF wasn’t going to change and cut the umbilical cord. Maybe he couldn’t handle the pressure of not living up to or meeting her needs, became increasingly resentful and because he has a fragile ego decided eliminating her would solve both their problems. Perhaps he felt emasculated or threatened by her independence and success, did she truly “need” him? All speculation on my part and not victim shaming whatsoever, living at moms while your baby girl and “fiancé” have a place of their own would be a deal breaker for me. In the end I hope she saw him for what he was and chose to break it off. He was never good enough for her.

SoVeryMe, I love your last line.
He was never good enough for her.
This statement applies here, and in many murder cases.
Your thoughts of him feeling emasculated, threatened by her independence and success, may be motive here.

 

[Charlot123]

my opinion ONLY: we can teach our sons and daughters to REALLY REALLY get to know someone before marriage (like 2+ years plus pre-marriage counseling, etc). And, then after vows, consummate. We can teach our children it's OK to wait for marriage before shedding clothes. IMO.
This is something I'm shoving down my 16 year old son's throat and have been for years. None of the above could do any harm. IMO

NO: I'm not victim shaming as PF engaged in conception too. If anything, I'm "society" blaming.

Our society has veered far away "conventional values". I know firsthand - I did similar (divorced when my kid was a baby) and sometimes blame my mom for teaching me to "follow your heart" instead of my brain.

MOO

@EmilyVan, but respectfully, the conventional values used to be shoved down people's throats because pregnancy followed intimacy. Now that women are able to control their cycles, the attitudes changed. IMO, societal mores merely follow technology, and no one is to be blamed..

As to kids, biology is biology. To remember "the Song of Songs", Shulamith was a 13-year old "young woman". In old times, premarital sex was a sin, but girls and boys would be customarily wed off immediately after puberty, because average lifespan would be 20-25 years. They would become intimate way earlier than we do, so maybe, we are becoming conventional?

KB was 28 when she had a baby, PF, 32. Pretty mature people, it seems.

 

[tictoc]

If he is a liar like this, then Patrick is a version of Scott Peterson.

Could it be so? Scott came across as a wonderful guy, was very caring, roses, champagne, delicate in his approach.
Women thought he had substance. IRL, I think his lying amounted to a disease. Personally, I have met such a liar only once in life, and to this day don't know how to call it.

It would be interesting to see what people say about Patrick.

There's an interesting similarity with Scott Peterson who also said he didn't want to take away from the investigation (as PF had claimed via his lawyer) by being in the spotlight of the investigation. Meanwhile, neither showed any sense of urgency about the whereabouts of the mother of his child.