Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #41

[moonlessnight]

actually no one really knows. LE said right off the bat after the arrest that it wasn't about killing the parents, it was all about taking JC - they were collateral damage. that's what he told them. whether we believe him is the question.

I think the murders happened because he planned them to happen.

He’s already said as much, and the crime is reflective of this. He came to kill.

His plan was brazen, reckless, yet ultimately effective.

He wore gloves, shaved his head, scrubbed the shotgun shells, and went prepared with duct tape.

His plan wasn’t brilliant, but there was a method to his madness.

 

[moonlessnight]

ummm, that's what I meant by brawn - big gun.

I respectfully disagree that he has brawn. The GUN was his power.

Also, most Sociopaths are above average intelligence, and we have anecdotal evidence that he was considered " very smart" by his HS teachers and some fellow students.
JMO of course,

He had DISORDERED THINKING in addition to the overt violence. This is a main feature of IMPULSE CONTROL, which is almost completely lacking in a Sociopath.

 

[ilovechili]

He planned to murder, I still am unsure that the murders were not as much a part of his sick fantasy as any of it. He did NOT need to murder Denise, he was allegedly masked, gloved, etc. Shaved, more. Identified how and by who? Assuming that is true, he wanted to murder and planned to. imho.

 

[JaneEyre]

I don't know about Wisconsin but I have lived in a house where their were no stairs to the basement in another part of the US (in the midwest). The basement was unfinished and basically part of the garage under the house. There was also another exterior door to the basement part. It was only used for storage-- not any shape someone would want to live in.

We used to call them cellars. A little less common now, but I don’t think any building codes prohibit cellars with outdoor entrances.

 

[MassGuy]

actually no one really knows. LE said right off the bat after the arrest that it wasn't about killing the parents, it was all about taking JC - they were collateral damage. that's what he told them. whether we believe him is the question.

I don’t need his words to tell me anything, his actions speak volumes.

He was taking Jayme, and no one was going to stop him. He killed the parents because they were an obstacle to that goal.

There were less violent ways to have gone about this, but this is the one he chose.

 

[Yesiamapirate]

I agree they had little time to make any choices and probably made the fastest one they could to hide in the tub in the locked bathroom, even pulling open the bathroom drawers to further barricade the door-- I thought that was very smart thinking. I think he would have chased them out the patio door because it seems likely it can be seen from the front door. Plus it was cold and they probably didn't have shoes on. Plus they didn't know how many bad guys there were or what they wanted. They made the best choices they could at the time and nothing they could have done could have changed things much since JTP went there prepared to murder. JMO.

We go through "Active Shooter" drills at work. The first thing we are supposed to do is Run. I know there are probably several survival techniques taught depending on the building you are in. We are in a general office building, mixed use call center. We use the " Run, Hide, Fight" training. We just recently had our " drill". We all walked and talked through what we would do. My point.....I can say all that and even practice it. But if the rubber met the road and I was in Jayme's place, no telling what I would do. Unless you lived it, who would know? They hope that all the practice verbal and walk through drills would make it second nature but I just don't think so. I can't even imagine what all that adrenaline would do to my brain. My heart goes out to Jayme and anyone else reading this that have been in this spot. Much love. MHO......

 

[human]

Does WI not have building codes for residential house plans?
Do they not have building inspectors for codes?

Because I don't believe you can build a basement without free access to other areas of the home UNLESS you are building it as a separate apartment, and then, the house would probably be classified as a multi-family dwelling and not a single- family dwelling. Taxation would be different is the core reason WHY.

I cannot speak for there, but in MN where I lived rurally we did not have a building inspector. $$$$$$$$.

We had a zoning administrator that made sure set backs were met. That is it.

We had unscrupulous builders and you would not believe the stuff they did or rather should say, did not do. The county inspected for septic.

Does the bank require info on electric and plumbing? I have no clue.

So it is possible no building plans or inspections are required except for septic and setbacks.

Buyer, beware!

 

[PommyMommy]

LE and experts have been wrong before per my previous posts
I'm not allowed to discuss the topic??!!?

Well, they're not wrong this time, IMO. And, I didn't say you're not allowed to discuss the topic. I said I think you're beating a dead horse. Still do. MOO

 

[Doghairrules]

Maybe it's in a manual on "How to commit a perfect crime".

Ha! You make me laugh. Thanks!

 

[Ibiz]

He's a pretty weird/sick guy. I honestly think if planned properly - he would have done something that would not of caused such a media frenzy. He basically put a lot of HEAT on himself which probably kept him in a nonstop state of paranoia and panic. I think he was always looking over his shoulder. When he did get pulled over, he basically just started confessing. Not something we see very often in these cases.

 

[Gardener1850]

I've lived in 2 very large houses with basements... Both post- trauma.. I was leery of any sound or anything because of the very clear and easy access -one had French doors and patio sliders and the other had a huge custom made door at street level which once was the family's garage door. You couldn't tell as the house had been remodeled professionally by the original master builder.
It might be that Jayme ( or Denise) or both didn't want to go down into the basement when JP was blasting in their door. I just don't know. Maybe he's a lying liar who lies and kills and Jayme did make it to the basement but not out of it. I don't think she did, but we really don't know if he subdued her and got out in 4 minutes just because he says so. Or that she never made any moves out of the bathroom but I'd have stayed with my mother at that age...

JP went into a fairly ooey gooey descriptive term for a fresh multiple murderer when he said Denise had Jayme in a " bear hug". It's a warm and fuzzy description, at least in my personal vocabulary, when they were his prey.... Things like this in his narrative in the official CC make me think he's saying what people think he should say based on movies and things. A Sociopath will MIMIC from movies and TV very often.

Did bear hug come from him or from Jayme? It might have even been suggested by an interviewing officer asking how Jayme and Denise were positioned when he pulled back the shower curtain. I think his account makes sense, plus Jayme's account verifies what happened. I don't see any chance that Denise would have barricaded herself in the bathroom alone and told Jayme to run or hide somewhere else. JMO. I do agree he will probably lie or embellish things, however. Thankfully they have Jayme alive to tell what happened and they have forensic evidence of his crimes.

 

[MassGuy]

I have absolutely no doubt that after James was shot, there was nothing that Denise could have done differently that would have spared her life.

If she and Jayme ran, Denise was dead.

If they hid in another location, Denise was dead.

This was simply too fast.

 

[Doghairrules]

At this point, I think we're just being baited.

Indeed. Way past expressing opinions.

 

[moonlessnight]

exactly. if you look at everything all together, it's incredibly inconsistent. JP comes off to me as a bumbling fool. a sick, psychopathic, predatory bumbling fool. I think he confessed immediately bc he is intimidated by authority.

He's a pretty weird/sick guy. I honestly think if planned properly - he would have done something that would not of caused such a media frenzy. He basically put a lot of HEAT on himself which probably kept him in a nonstop state of paranoia and panic. I think he was always looking over his shoulder. When he did get pulled over, he basically just started confessing. Not something we see very often in these cases.

 

[Rubiconbob]

Maybe someone already suggested this, but it's possible there could be weatherizing plastic (on the inside of the house) over the double glass doors. A lot of us do that in certain areas of the home where the most cold air comes in. Doesn't look pretty, but sure helps

It looks like a seal failed on door panel and it’s condensation buildup... view attached door seal failure photos...

Luminal and ninjas sounds a lot more interesting though

 

[ab01]

Okay, but why on earth would they spray Luminol on the outside of the patio doors?

I can't remember what thread it was, but this was discussed ad infinitum for pages. Not that I had anything to do with all that or anything.

Looks to me like condensation between the two panes of glass caused by seal failure....

 

[Ibiz]

I have absolutely no doubt that after James was shot, there was nothing that Denise could have done differently that would have spared her life.

If she and Jayme ran, Denise was dead.

If they hid in another location, Denise was dead.

This was simply too fast.

I dont know. Did they have a car in the garage? If so, could they have accessed the garage from the basement?

 

[Doghairrules]

He's a pretty weird/sick guy. I honestly think if planned properly - he would have done something that would not of caused such a media frenzy. He basically put a lot of HEAT on himself which probably kept him in a nonstop state of paranoia and panic. I think he was always looking over his shoulder. When he did get pulled over, he basically just started confessing. Not something we see very often in these cases.

But apparently he thought he was home free after two weeks. I think it’s a possibility he wasn’t stressed again until he found out Jayme was gone. He’s arrogant for sure.

 

[moonlessnight]

exactly. killing the parents may not have even been planned, but he was prepared in case. because he had been scared off twice before. the impulsivity evolved into a plan over time out of necessity but was still not well planned.

I don’t need his words to tell me anything, his actions speak volumes.

He was taking Jayme, and no one was going to stop him. He killed the parents because they were an obstacle to that goal.

There were less violent ways to have gone about this, but this is the one he chose.

 

[SeekingJana]

I think this is what he planned (based on TV shows) and it all went wrong immediately and he was forced to kill the parents instead of leaving a 3rd time without completing the abduction. I think he went prepared to do whatever it took to take JC, but I also think he thought he could break in and take her while her parents slept with no one the wiser.

Since Sociopaths will lie when a truth is easier to make fit and so forth, his entire statement of " I saw her, I planned to take her ( in those few seconds!!!). I didn't know her name" to " I had a plan to storm the door and take her if it meant killing several people" and " I would have shot police",
we may have a huge collection of LIES upon LIES.

Also, thinking back to Ted Bundy, who is the archetypical ASPD Sociopath, IF his plan didn't go according to his FANTASY, then he was thrown way off. Sometimes, he did extremely bizarre, sadistic and horrible things to MORE people
than was usual for him after a " near capture".

It was a different time, and Bundy preferred using a knife to a gun. He WANTED to see and feel the blood and tissue.
JP SAYS there was absolutely NO blowback from either shotgun blast on to him or his clothing. I think he is SO LYING about this!!!