CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #37 *ARREST*

[Lhughessk]

I believe the DA said the prosecutors office would not oppose release of the arrest affidavit, search warrants, so the only fly in the ointment here would be if PF and his defense have some argument and oppose the release. PF's defense team has been as quiet as PF! They certainly can't allege that Prosecutor has been leaking information!

I think the defense could oppose the unsealing of the arrest warrant prior to the preliminary hearing. Since we’re so close to that hearing anyway, I would be surprised if the judge rules to unseal before that hearing has been held.

 

[Lhughessk]

I am a reasonable person. But if my daughter's ex boyfriend killed her, I would not be dropping off her baby at his parent's home, any time soon, if ever. I just wouldn't feel like it was in the baby's best interests to be cared for in that home any more.

I am not sure it would be in the child's best interest to be around the family of her mother's killer, especially if they continue to support him and declare his innocence. JMO IMO

But if the court ordered you to, you would have to.

I don’t like the concept of guilt by association, personally. A good home is a good home, and good people are good people. We all should be judged and given or denied opportunities based on who we are as individuals. Not who we happen to be related to, which is something we couldn’t choose.

 

[Nudgee]

She definitely did more than she is pleading too, I have no doubt about that.

I’m also confident that this particular attorney, got her a better deal than she would have otherwise gotten with another lawyer.

That being said, the evidence is the evidence, and the prosecution clearly does not believe that she is involved to the extent that some people on here do.

They definitely don’t think she drove the plot, or (likely) was even an accessory before the fact.

It doesn’t make her a good person (I think she’s a horrible human being).

I agree, KK's involvement is more than she is pleading too. But what worries me, especially after seeing PF wearing a bullet proof vest on Thursday for a custody hearing, puts me back on the fence as far as there being a 3rd or 4th party involved here. @BingoBongo mentioned it in the prior thread about an option #4. I'm with BingoBingo on that.

This is what keeps lurking in the back of my mind. That there is another person out there who is involved and that person may be getting very nervous that KK is throwing PF under the bus and now PF will decide to start talking. Until Friday, no one knew what/if KK was going to plead. Now that she has, the dominoes of this case may really start falling, especially after his appearance on Feb 19th.

It's hard for me to write out what I'm thinking and not start talking in circles so I'll leave it with saying I believe there is still one more person involved here. PF killed KB on Thanksgiving Day while he was over there doing a custody exchange. Appears he was unsuccessful being able to get someone to commit the actual murder, so he does it himself while doing the exchange of Baby K and immediately leaves her property with the baby..... he leaves KB there (oh how I hate to think this) knowing he was successful in hiring someone to come in immediately afterwards and dispose of KB's body (which then opens a whole other new door as to whether PF even knows where KB's body is but I wont go there now). Also makes me think KK was involved in some kind of clean up...

And to @MassGuy ... I know I poke at you being a Pats fan but in all honesty.... Congrats on your win!

 

[NoeticSoul]

OT Spider(man) slide in action & the Hulk @ the Cripple Creek CO annual Ice Festival today and yesterday

 

[scaredtopost]

IF SF had reached out to CB and allowed her to see baby K from the start, I could see CB allowing her to visit and see the child, supervised to ensure she wouldn't fill her head with false information about PF. BUT, since she refused to look out for Baby K's best interest from the start, she certainly doesn't earn the right to see her now.
JMO, MOO, etc

 

[yawningreyhound]

Been mulling over KK’s statement that she “learned” KB was murdered. Was she near enough to have used her nursing skills to render aid? In my imagination, I see her outside with the baby, sitting in his red truck, while Patrick goes inside. Did he come out to the truck and say he did it? Why wasn’t she shocked into action to help KB. I wish we knew enough details to put Kelsey to rest and ensure that all those responsible pay. I hope, he pleads guilty so the family does not have to endure a trial.

I am so onboard with your observation. She "learned" on the 22nd and did what until she tampered with the phone on the 24th/25th? What a grizzly 3 days. We know KB was alive at noon on the 22nd. I just can't wait to see if it's verified KK was in WP on the 22nd for the holiday. Or if she arrived later to pick up the phone and then leave with it and maybe KB's purse. WTH were they thinking in this day and age that they could possible get away with this.

Do we know if KK came forward or if LE went to KK after ID atty's phone call to LE?

 

[mickey2942]

But if the court ordered you to, you would have to.

I don’t like the concept of guilt by association, personally. A good home is a good home, and good people are good people. We all should be judged and given or denied opportunities based on who we are as individuals. Not who we happen to be related to, which is something we couldn’t choose.

Unless the "good person" was still supporting an arrested and incarcerated suspected killer.

Fortunately, due to the fact that KB's parents live in another state, it is not that easy, as if they lived across town. A judge would have to take that into consideration.

 

[gliving]

dbm

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

But if the court ordered you to, you would have to.

I don’t like the concept of guilt by association, personally. A good home is a good home, and good people are good people. We all should be judged and given or denied opportunities based on who we are as individuals. Not who we happen to be related to, which is something we couldn’t choose.

Ma F harbored PF, with held Baby K from Kelsey's family. Plus We have to wonder where they were fleeing to when PF,was arrested. Where were they going to hide PF,and Baby K? Do you think they wouldn't still be hiding,and keeping baby K,and PF away from Kelsey's family if they had gotten away, before LE caught them?
MOO

 

[yawningreyhound]

Another thought: KK learned OF the homicide on the 22nd or KK learned of the homicide that was committed ON the 22nd?

 

[NoeticSoul]

Ma F harbored PF, with held Baby K from Kelsey's family. Plus We have to wonder where they were fleeing to when PF,was arrested. Where were they going to hide PF,and Baby K? Do you think they wouldn't still be hiding,and keeping baby K,and PF away from Kelsey's family if they had gotten away, before LE caught them?
MOO

I doubt they were going on an impromptu 'vacation' at 5 am in the morning (or however early it was). moo

 

[The Farm]

Ma F harbored PF, with held Baby K from Kelsey's family. Plus We have to wonder where they were fleeing to when PF,was arrested. Where were they going to hide PF,and Baby K? Do you think they wouldn't still be hiding,and keeping baby K,and PF away from Kelsey's family if they had gotten away, before LE caught them?
MOO

They could have just been "fleeing" to breakfast out and I would not say SF was harboring PF as he lived there.

 

[Lhughessk]

Unless the "good person" was still supporting an arrested and incarcerated suspected killer.

Fortunately, due to the fact that KB's parents live in another state, it is not that easy, as if they lived across town. A judge would have to take that into consideration.

I’m not sure how you define “support”. And if in the eyes of the law a person is presumed innocent until proven guilty, what are they supposed to be, in the eyes of their family?

 

[Sheila Terranova]

One problem with PFs family having custody is they would no doubt raise the baby confused about father's guilt.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Another thought: KK learned OF the homicide on the 22nd or KK learned of the homicide that was committed ON the 22nd?

Just exactly where was KK,while Kelsey's life was being snuffed out? She sure does dance around with wording when it comes to that. Yet she knew well before hand what was going down. Where was she from the 22nd,to the 25th?
Lot of gaps to fill in.
MOO

 

[Auntie Cipation]

IANAL but I feel confident that the "I learned of this" language is standard legalese as advised by her attorney. It is designed to acknowledge her awareness of the information without giving any other information about how she became aware of it -- in person or not, from whom, etc. It's not KK's own wording but how she was told to say it.

Also, since LE didn't know about the homicide until well after KK's actions with the phone on the 24th/25th, she presumably learned of it from PF, or, less likely, someone else involved.

 

[mrstfs]

I shouldn’t be asking these questions before the evidence comes out but I’m struggling with a few things. What is it about the relationship with KK that makes PF think he could solicit her for murder in the first place and be confident that she wouldn’t report him. Was KK coincidentally in town on Thanksgiving when KB was killed? Or did she drop everything to drive 800 miles just to help him “move the phone”?

Something isn’t adding up to me, regarding her charges vs the appearance of the circumstances. I think @MassGuy is right and she’s probably more involved than they have evidence to prove.

P.S. congratulations massguy on the super bowl win.

 

[Lhughessk]

Ma F harbored PF, with held Baby K from Kelsey's family. Plus We have to wonder where they were fleeing to when PF,was arrested. Where were they going to hide PF,and Baby K? Do you think they wouldn't still be hiding,and keeping baby K,and PF away from Kelsey's family if they had gotten away, before LE caught them?
MOO

A lot of bias in your wording and your version of what happened, IMO. “Harboring” normally has a negative connotation of holding something in secret. SF did nothing wrong in allowing her own son to continue living there. She only even became aware of the murder in early December, and he was arrested on Dec. 21. That is 2-1/2 weeks of your “harboring” and “withholding”. And “fleeing”? Come on now.

In a national interview, CB was asked if she was going to try to see K. She paused and said, “I don’t know.” So as far as we know, unless you have a link otherwise, she did not make contact with PF’s family to even try to see K. And I don’t blame either side for not reaching out during that very short window of time. Emotions were high, it was unclear what was happening on the LE side, and there was no court order in place yet. One WAS put into place before the end of the month, so the span of time that KB’s family went without seeing K was minimal, certainly when compared to the fact that they now have her for every moment of every day. I’ve never heard them complain about how PF’s family handled things. Only folks here.

PF’s family are victims too. His mother probably had few cares in the world, was winding down and maybe thinking of retiring and enjoying grand babies. Now she has a murderer for a son. JMO

 

[Elley Mae]

One problem with PFs family having custody is they would no doubt raise the baby confused about father's guilt.

Agree.

O/T

I know a grandmother who has not told anyone of her friends (many) that her grandson is in prison for life for sexual abuse of 3 little girls, yet she tells them that his ex was having affair as to why they are split. < not true. Some people are very sick in the head.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

They could have just been "fleeing" to breakfast out and I would not say SF was harboring PF as he lived there.

Well she certainly wasn't helping Find Kelsey, in fact LE was forced to get search warrants, every step of the way. She kept PF under her wing while he dodged LE,and Kept Baby K from Kelsey's family. She went out of her way to keep LE from getting at PF,and getting Baby K.
MOO