CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #6

[mrjitty]

BBM
It troubles me greatly that the emphasis of this thread is "CM is guilty, go ahead and try to prove him innocent". I am aware that not all posters are familiar with the USA jury trial system, but I believe it needs to be stated once again, IN A COURT OF LAW THE DEFENDANT IS CONSIDERED INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY. Those of us who are questioning the evidence and analyzing the facts deserve to be treated respectfully (instead of simply being described as "nerdish").

With all due respect I think you completely misunderstood my post.

As a qualified lawyer, I am familiar with BARD standard

My post addressed evidential burdens in the case - which are quite different from the standard of proof.

Due to presumption of innocence, there is never a burden on the defence to prove anything as a starting point.

However where the defence wishes to claim that a state of affairs existed, the defense must be able to point to at least some evidence which supports the contention.

So for instance where the defence Attorney is saying "Joey told Chase it was OK to make these cheques and knew about it" - that contention needs to be raised before the jury based on actual evidence. If not, it should be dismissed as unsupported by the evidence.

So in this way, driven by the arguments the defence wants to make, an evidential burden can arise. Especially where the state has proven facts which give rise to a natural and obvious inference of fraud/theft.

So the defence can stay passive, and say "well its all not clear enough". That is legit. But if the defence wants to claim that everything was a different way it needs to have evidence of its own to rebut the obvious conclusion.

And I believe I was referring to myself as nerdish

 

[katydid23]

He would of used his phone to take a screen shot of Joeys computer screen hence it being a screen shot.

Right. But it is also a 'picture' because he is taking a picture of the computer screen. And that is different than the 'screenshot' I might take of something on my computer at the time, by pressing Control/Apple/Shift.

 

[katydid23]

Sorry Mica my error I've changed it to Joey. Too much stuff rolling around in my old brain.

Haaa...you had me going for a minute. I was thinking 'MIKEY was there too? wow, the plot thickens!'

 

[mrjitty]

From chat on L&C:

AddiLawCrime: The issue is being dealt with, we are currently working wiht the streaming service to get things working better. I've been in contact with tech for days now. Thanks for your patience

Have they heard of YouTube live?

 

[Chelly]

Cathy Russon lately doesnt post tweets why doesnt someone ask her for more

Just heard back from Cathy Russon. She said she is out sick today but "still trying to tweet a bit."

 

[Edmo]

I will have to listen later, I missed that lol



ok, so I thought they said that was on his phone? uggh definitely have to find later! LOL I thought they all came from an article that came out after the bodies were found?

I'm not sure if it's a big deal that he has them.... I think if he didn't have any connection to the McStay's it wouldn't look good, but I'm not sure what it's supposed to mean? Most of the articles that came out after they were found, also included information about himself.

I thought they were taken with his phone, but found on his PC? My info is from the Judge, prior to testimony today.

 

[Edmo]

Items were found on his phone not his computer

I thought the photos were from his phone, but found on hisPC?

 

[mrjitty]

The interesting thing about checks 4092/4093, is that they indicate Chase used old checks, not in the current series of checks, prior to the night of the murders. They were being experimented with on Feb 1st & 2nd, not on Joey's computer. It also means that he was practicing at the McStay house because those two numbers show up on Joey's computer the night of the murders. I wonder if he was originally considering logging those checks to make it look like Joey created them, but then realized the check he had already cashed would look odd as it was out of sequence. This is what connects Chase to the house the night of the murders!

After the night of the 4th, it looks like the checks started being generated on Joey's stock, which could mean Chase grabbed that stock while he was there. The fact that they were created and deleted goes against the nature of the contact account as the contact account is the one tracking the checks. The checks were being created using the contact account which means Chase had access to contact, even prior to the night of the murders, and whether he notified Joey as he wrote them or not, they needed to remain there for accounting purposes. And, if Joey told Chase to go ahead and print those checks, Joey would have seen them in the account had they not been deleted. There would be no need for phone calls back and forth. Then, there is the big question of how Chase suddenly had Joey's check stock (4200 series) up at his house the day after the murders. We're supposed to believe that Joey gave Chase 10 checks, not all signed, some with forged signatures on the day of the murders.

Lots to unpack here!

But I thought chase created the cheques in custom not contact?

 

[Tortoise]

Have they heard of YouTube live?

They still haven't put up yesterday's videos, never mind live.

 

[Tortoise]

Lots to unpack here!

But I thought chase created the cheques in custom not contact?

That's right. All lowercase.

 

[Edmo]

Didn’t he get rid of his phone too? Or was that after the murders?

Ok, yes. CM cancelled his AT&T account at the end of Feb 2010.

 

[mrjitty]

That's right. All lowercase.

Does that tally with your work?

That he stole blanks from joey on the 4th?

I hadn't thought of that ...

 

[katydid23]

They still haven't put up yesterday's videos, never mind live.

Addi from LawandCrime posted in chat that she, just this morning, received that stream, and is editing it now for youtube replays.

 

[Tortoise]

Does that tally with your work?

That he stole blanks from joey on the 4th?

I hadn't thought of that ...

I did form that impression a while back but I didn't post about it because I just haven't got enough information about all the cheque numbers yet.

 

[Edmo]

About pictures: The Prosecution *should* be able to get the meta data from photos showing date/location etc.

 

[dlkutac]

Lots to unpack here!

But I thought chase created the cheques in custom not contact?

My bad. I thought the previous testimony was that no checks were created out of custom, but apparently today there was testimony to the contrary? Have not seen much of yesterday or today yet. Imo, it does not matter which account they were created from, except that the unusual break in procedure occurred in close proximity to the murders. It lends credence to the circumstantial evidence of guilt. It does matter from the perspective of the check created on Feb 1st/cashed Feb 2nd and the check numbers associated with that early activity if those were created out of custom and messed around with in contact on Feb 4th. It's indicative of a telling pattern as well as a huge anomaly, the check number.

I was thinking about the idea that Joey supposedly gave unsigned checks to Chase. That notion is completely absurd since an unsigned check cannot be used and they would still have to meet up to get them signed. If Joey suddenly decided to start having Chase issue checks, he would have given him a limited number of signed checks. Given Joey's knowledge of Chase's problems with money, very unlikely.

 

[JMarsh]

My bad. I thought the previous testimony was that no checks were created out of custom, but apparently today there was testimony to the contrary? Have not seen much of yesterday or today yet. Imo, it does not matter which account they were created from, except that the unusual break in procedure occurred in close proximity to the murders. It lends credence to the circumstantial evidence of guilt. It does matter from the perspective of the check created on Feb 1st/cashed Feb 2nd and the check numbers associated with that early activity if those were created out of custom and messed around with in contact on Feb 4th. It's indicative of a telling pattern as well as a huge anomaly, the check number.

I was thinking about the idea that Joey supposedly gave unsigned checks to Chase. That notion is completely absurd since an unsigned check cannot be used and they would still have to meet up to get them signed. If Joey suddenly decided to start having Chase issue checks, he would have given him a limited number of signed checks. Given Joey's knowledge of Chase's problems with money, very unlikely.

I love the way you are thinking through this, and I want to respond, but I don't feel like I can until I can view yesterday's testimony. Thank you for all the thoughtful effort you are putting into this.

 

[JMarsh]

Just heard back from Cathy Russon. She said she is out sick today but "still trying to tweet a bit."

Cathy Russon is a "rock star". Hope she feels better soon. She's doing a great job juggling all these high profile cases.

 

[JMarsh]

Have they heard of YouTube live?

Is that working for you? It costs money doesn't it? I'll pay if it actually works.

 

[katydid23]

If the defense is going to stick with Chase's version of the story, that JOEY was the one that created that check from the custom account on the 4th, then deleted it, , that is going to be a hard sell.

How do they explain why Joey, who has never ever written a check from that account, would suddenly, that fateful night, do so?

If Joey had to write a check to Chase he always did so from the Contacts account. In fact, he gave a check for 200 bucks to Chase at lunch I believe, and it was from the Contacts account.

The Custom account was set up to keep track of monies owed to Chase from various projects. It was not set up to create checks for him. The account bank balance was set up in the Contacts account. That's why checks were written from that account.

I think it will be hard to convince the jury that Joey broke with his past 2 years of financial accounting routine and suddenly did something so unusual, that made no sense in terms of how and why his QB system was set up.