CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #46*ARREST*

[susiQ]

BBM
I felt a literal sense of hope when I read this

As well, I try to remind myself that although PF had ten days while he was not even a suspect, he may have put what was left of the "black plastic tote with the silver handles" (need to emphasize that ) in an industrial type garbage bag and taken it to his local transfer station, thinking no one was ever going to be looking for something so mundane as a blob of black plastic. Too bad, NOT sad PF. If LE have tracked him by phone to a local transfer station during that time, before the publicized dump with his "buddies", the dump site knows exactly where the bin from the transfer station was placed. I too take comfort knowing that there is a great possibility KB's remains will be found within the next month.

 

[Noharg]

As well, I try to remind myself that although PF had ten days while he was not even a suspect, he may have put what was left of the "black plastic tote with the silver handles" (need to emphasize that ) in an industrial type garbage bag and taken it to his local transfer station, thinking no one was ever going to be looking for something so mundane as a blob of black plastic. Too bad, NOT sad PF. If LE have tracked him by phone to a local transfer station during that time, before the publicized dump with his "buddies", the dump site knows exactly where the bin from the transfer station was placed. I too take comfort knowing that there is a great possibility KB's remains will be found within the next month.

ITA Hopefully weather will cooperate.
Woodland Park, CO (80863) 10-Day Weather Forecast - The Weather Channel | Weather.com

 

[ilovechili]

I also do not believe KB was murdered with a wooden baseball bat in the condo living room.

1. The condo is very small and tight at 742 sqft with a good part of that upstairs. An adult woman and a baby live there, so there is a significant amount of stuff. The living room area isn't even large enough for a couch but only a loveseat, per the Zillow photos. I have lived in such a space, and I would never have been able to swing a bat without taking out a lamp, TV, etc. or hitting the wall. PF is 6'2" iirc.

2. In the murder of Jason Corbett by his wife Molly Corbett and her father Thomas Martens, both a yard paving stone and a baseball bat were used to bludgeon him. The attack likely began with Jason asleep in bed in the master bedroom of a newer, larger house with a very spacious master bedroom. Molly beat Jason with the paver, mostly about the head, and then her father, a retired FBI agent with a law degree, beat Jason with the baseball bat. Not a mark on them, they claimed self defense. Jason was heavily battered. The bedroom and adjoining bathroom were a bloodbath - the heaviest blood was all LOW, all over the baseboards as Jason tried to crawl away from the assailants. There would be no way to "clean" in just 3 hours; it would need paint.

GUILTY - NC - Jason Corbett, 39, murdered in his Wallburg home, 2 Aug 2015 #10

Corbett home

I too am sitting in such a space right now and the home I am at, has all of the square feet on one level (no loft) and I just cannot see it either and this place is roomier but small and average. Not without far more damage and blood seeping into things one would never be able to stop or think about nor clean up. We also have Baby K allegedly in a downstairs room as well as part of that square footage. I could go on at length sitting in such a space at why I cannot see it and the reasons it could not be done. I highly recommend people sit in a home or apartment of that size and try to picture it.

Maybe once, maybe to incapacitate or with her incapacitated beforehand and that is even too much for me to believe. And then to have a quick and fantastic clean-up job? Nope, not me. Someone else is missing that helped or it took longer or it happened elsewhere, etc.

Orrr..., LE has more evidence from that scene than any of us can imagine. A dent in the floor, a broken mirror, blood down inside the TV frame, just some examples, a broken window, a dented door, a splintered cabinet... Then blood specifically pointed out by KK left on purpose on the fireplace and switch (to help them find him lol), but that's it? Nope. It sounds almost staged. And LE and the B family did not see things like this, just noted some things? Yet a bat was used?

Unless there is much they have that we do not know about. And much more noticed than we have been told, etc. And much more info shared by KK than we know. And more days and/or people involved.

I think personally where I am at today one would have to just haul out half the things in here and try to call it a robbery, even likely the toaster and appliances... the living room chair and sofa, the books... The computer...

Jmo but I just cannot see it either. I do not know what is missing but something is at the very least...

 

[susiQ]

As well, I try to remind myself that although PF had ten days while he was not even a suspect, he may have put what was left of the "black plastic tote with the silver handles" (need to emphasize that ) in an industrial type garbage bag and taken it to his local transfer station, thinking no one was ever going to be looking for something so mundane as a blob of black plastic. Too bad, NOT sad PF. If LE have tracked him by phone to a local transfer station during that time, before the publicized dump with his "buddies", the dump site knows exactly where the bin from the transfer station was placed. I too take comfort knowing that there is a great possibility KB's remains will be found within the next month.

Quoting myself. Yeesh!
The irony in this is, that maybe PF actually thought he could outsmart LE with the second dump run. So, while he hears on the news that bags were taken after his run with the guys, and he knows there's nothing really in them because he's already gotten rid of everything 3 weeks earlier, he thinks he's "home free." Stupid monster.

 

[Kapua]

As well, I try to remind myself that although PF had ten days while he was not even a suspect, he may have put what was left of the "black plastic tote with the silver handles" (need to emphasize that ) in an industrial type garbage bag and taken it to his local transfer station, thinking no one was ever going to be looking for something so mundane as a blob of black plastic. Too bad, NOT sad PF. If LE have tracked him by phone to a local transfer station during that time, before the publicized dump with his "buddies", the dump site knows exactly where the bin from the transfer station was placed. I too take comfort knowing that there is a great possibility KB's remains will be found within the next month.

Spot on, IMHO. And PF didn't know that he had 10 days. He's lucky that he did.

 

[gitana1]

I didn't know KK went with him to get her body. How can anybody go to a person's place, view their battered murdered body and then go with him to burn it. This is beyond anything.

Inhuman.

 

[Julia966]

I didn't know KK went with him to get her body. How can anybody go to a person's place, view their battered murdered body and then go with him to burn it. This is beyond anything.

I'm not sure KK ever actually saw her body. Or, at least, she hasn't said so. Just the tote with the silver handles , the blood and a heap.

But yeah, it's incredible. And even if she had seen KB, it probably would not have any difference.

 

[ajaylee]

In reference to the black plastic tote. I'm not sure it matters weather or not fluid would seep out on top of the hay bale as even with a lid most are not completely air tight. I think too much has been made weather it was a bag or a hard plastic box. Cadaver dogs are trained to hit on even the tiniest amount of sent, especially after a body has been decompossing for a few days. I don't find it unplausible that the dog would hit on that area even if there wasn't material that was left behind. MOO

I do believe that after reviewing the affidavit more closely that LE does believe it was a hard plastic tote and I think the bits of burnt black plastic that they found at Casa de Frazee tends to support that. MOO

If the tote was one of the ones made of black plastic with metal handles, that might be easier for the searchers to find. It's also possible it cooled down to a reasonably sizeable 'lump'. I don't know how easily that melted plastic breaks up. Dave F. posted a fantastic post about the types of plastics these bins can be made of. I don't want to be morbid, but I hope it melted into one large lump. That would give the searchers a much better chance, IMHO.

 

[SandyQLS]

And weren't there other similar "totes" also at the F ranchette as well? I know I read that somewhere IIRC.

Yes.

Alexis Dominguez KRDO‏ @alexisdomm
On #PatrickFrazee's property investigators found two black totes which Krystal said resembled the one #KelseyBerreth's body was in.

From:

Deceased/Not Found - CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #39 *ARREST*

 

[oviedo]

I'm not sure KK ever actually saw her body. Or, at least, she hasn't said so. Just the tote with the silver handles , the blood and a heap.

But yeah, it's incredible. And even if she had seen KB, it probably would not have any difference.

Para 71 and 72 outline KK telling LE that PF took the tote to the Nash Farm on 11/22 and then he and KK retrieved it on 11/24 - they used PF's red truck to move it to Florissant and cell phone records corroborate this according to the Affidavit.

I do not believe she saw inside the tote until it was burning - but am curious did the lid melt and run down the sides or melt into the tote? I'm trying to understand the "heap" comment (para 74)- the lid would need to be off or melted into the inside for her to see a heap IMO.

 

[ab01]

I too am sitting in such a space right now and the home I am at, has all of the square feet on one level (no loft) and I just cannot see it either and this place is roomier but small and average. Not without far more damage and blood seeping into things one would never be able to stop or think about nor clean up. We also have Baby K allegedly in a downstairs room as well as part of that square footage. I could go on at length sitting in such a space at why I cannot see it and the reasons it could not be done. I highly recommend people sit in a home or apartment of that size and try to picture it.

Maybe once, maybe to incapacitate or with her incapacitated beforehand and that is even too much for me to believe. And then to have a quick and fantastic clean-up job? Nope, not me. Someone else is missing that helped or it took longer or it happened elsewhere, etc.

Orrr..., LE has more evidence from that scene than any of us can imagine. A dent in the floor, a broken mirror, blood down inside the TV frame, just some examples, a broken window, a dented door, a splintered cabinet... Then blood specifically pointed out by KK left on purpose on the fireplace and switch (to help them find him lol), but that's it? Nope. It sounds almost staged. And LE and the B family did not see things like this, just noted some things? Yet a bat was used?

Unless there is much they have that we do not know about. And much more noticed than we have been told, etc. And much more info shared by KK than we know. And more days and/or people involved.

I think personally where I am at today one would have to just haul out half the things in here and try to call it a robbery, even likely the toaster and appliances... the living room chair and sofa, the books... The computer...

Jmo but I just cannot see it either. I do not know what is missing but something is at the very least...

The only thing I can add: Although I have never lived an a small apartment or condo outside of a college dorm room. Is that it seems there would not be a lot of area to get away and shield ones self.

Especially if one didn't even know an attack was about to happen.

Also a normal wooden bat is roughly 28-36" and it can be swung in an aprox 4'6"-5' radius.

As long as their is 5'-6' feet between swinging a bat and an object I think that would be enough room.

If you think about swinging at a blindfolded human (shudders) I think as long as they were position 6' from another 5-6' foot tall object, such as a wall or lamp etc it wouldn't be very difficult to swing and make solid deadly contact. Its certainly plausible .MOO

Sorry for the graphic imagery.

I think I quoted the wrong post

 

[PrairieWind]

I didn't know KK went with him to get her body. How can anybody go to a person's place, view their battered murdered body and then go with him to burn it. This is beyond anything.

I honestly can't think of anything more horrific than standing there watching the body of an innocent person burning. The mental image of that gives me nightmares.
IF that actually happened, it seems clear that he wanted her to see that, be a part of it. I can only assume it was for the purpose of making her feel culpable so that she wouldn't rat him out.

 

[ajaylee]

I got the sense that was about his excuses for not marrying her. CB stated something about how the reason they didn't marry was the cattle market taking a nose dive. I think he made a lot of excuses.

She apparently thought they were engaged. She came from a super religious family. She probably felt a lot of pressure to be married to the father of her child.

I mean there's something quite odd in this. She felt she was engaged and had a relationship. There are indications of strain - the account of the gun incident, the reference to arguing about finances, the fact that the baby was over a year old and they still weren't married, the comment the mom says KB made about "I feel safe around PF now" or something to that effect, in relation to her gun? The hospitalization for anxiety and depression.

Yet PF never just ended the relationship and said he didn't want KB. Why? Why didn't he just say it's over? And he hid his baby from KK until last summer?

KB seems like a sweet, ambitious person. She was beautiful. Why didn't PF want her?

I note again that he's a man who apparently never moved out of his mother's home. Despite having a few adult relationships.

I mean I know they have a smallish ranch that he worked so that could explain that. Adults will stay on family farms to work them when there's a family business.

But there's something weird here I can't put my finger on exactly. Why the secrecy about not wanting to stay in the relationship with KB? Why the secrecy about the existence of his child, to KK, who he also never married and seemed to have no intention of becoming serious with?

I get this sense that he never loved any woman. That his loyalties were linked to his mother only. Until his child was born. But he kept KK as a hanger on for what she could do for him.

As to KB, maybe he knew it was odd not to want her. Maybe he was simply forestalling an official breakup for fear she would try to move back home or closer to her work with the baby.

I don't know. But it's strange how these two didn't live together and weren't married, there were some apparent difficulties but she felt comfortable enough with him to help him with his cows, to go to Thanksgiving dinner with him and to play a blindfolded candle scent game with him.

It will be interesting to hear how that's all fleshed out by prosecutors.

Very thoughtful post, thanks.

I think PF didn't mind having KK back in his life as a casual risk-free hookup at rodeos or when she could come down to Colorado. I've posted elsewhere: I think KK was dreaming if she thought there was a future with PF. PF wasn't leaving that ranchette for anyone, ever, and I don't think KK was going to uproot herself and leave everything she's ever known behind - including possibly her kids, because I imagine her ex-husband would have tried to stop her from taking them away from everything they've ever known.

She was a fun time and a potentially useful tool. The more I look back over things, the more I think I see signs that he wanted her to take all the risks of getting rid of KB.

I wholeheartedly agree with your take on KB. I also wonder about her past relationships. She seems to have fallen very hard, very fast for PF. As I recall, her parents weren't entirely smitten with him, although I think they just said he was an 'odd duck'. I think she was emotionally abused and ashamed of being an unwed mother, somewhat afraid of PF but still desperately in love with him and wanting to make it work. He didn't hesitate to take advantage of that..

I think he originally thought he might be able to make something work with KB if KB came to the ranchette with her good-paying job.

 

[ajaylee]

The only thing I can add: Although I have never lived an a small apartment or condo outside of a college dorm room. Is that it seems there would not be a lot of area to get away and shield ones self.

Especially if one didn't even know an attack was about to happen.

Also a normal wooden bat is roughly 28-36" and it can be swung in an aprox 4'6"-5' radius.

As long as their is 5'-6' feet between swinging a bat and an object I think that would be enough room.

If you think about swinging at a blindfolded human (shudders) I think as long as they were position 6' from another 5-6' foot tall object it wouldn't be very difficult to swing and make solid deadly contact. Its certainly plausible .MOO

Sorry for the graphic imagery.

Apologies for more graphic imagery. I believe there were high ceilings - and blood on the ceiling. With a high ceiling, a weapon like a bat can also be wielded overhand like an axe. Seems like that kind of blow would be more likely to spatter blood upwards.

Still, I envision him in a rage. I tried randomly swinging a soft foam roller around my living room, which is bigger than KB's, and it's hard to do without hitting the wall or a piece of furniture, even if only a glancing blow.

 

[PrairieWind]

I didn't see the preliminary hearing and certainly don't have time to go back and read all of that stuff, so I am missing some info. After KK cleaned up KB's home, did she say what she did with the bags of stuff she took out (the rug, and clean up trash? Did that go into the fire as well?

 

[Hatfield]

I didn't know KK went with him to get her body. How can anybody go to a person's place, view their battered murdered body and then go with him to burn it. This is beyond anything.

IKR.

This is why I choose to believe she wanted her dead as much as PF did.

From her own admission we know she brought coffee to KB and I think it was a failed attempt to kill her right there. She claims she could not put drugs in the coffee but I dont believe her. Because if she did not have enough nerve to put drugs in the coffee then she had no reason to go up to KB's front door to give it to her in the first place.

I think the 3 solicitations were more like 3 failed attempts of murder.

And so when PF finally did the job himself then she gladly zoomed over there to join in the aftermath. I am even willing to bet that she made a deal with PF and had told PF in advance that if he killed KB then she would help do any cleanup tasks for him. That would explain his comments to her that "she has a mess to cleanup".

They are both evil to the core IMO.

 

[susiQ]

I didn't see the preliminary hearing and certainly don't have time to go back and read all of that stuff, so I am missing some info. After KK cleaned up KB's home, did she say what she did with the bags of stuff she took out (the rug, and clean up trash? Did that go into the fire as well?

Iirc, she took the bags to the ranchette to burn along with the tote they picked up at Nash Ranch.

 

[Kapua]

Wasn't sure if you were responding but saw it below mine and it seemed to address mine.

I too look more from the prosecution side generally, however, I watched a video from a defense attorney this a.m. and he was bothered by many of the very same things and poked a lot of holes in this case when one considers this, I think most would admit, convoluted story that in some ways seems to make no sense of KK's and some other things. He was not coming down on either side, was more pro-prosecution I felt but was just going with what is out there so far as well and showing where the holes would be thus far for a defense to take up with and where they would go with it.

I think the prosecution has more than we know though (he hoped and said the same) and quite honestly I hope for a bit of a twist even where KK is concerned. Not sure that is realistic, but one can hope. We may all be surprised, who knows. This is looking like such a he said/she said though and she is already for the most part "out" of most charges, we sure do not need PF to be as well. That would be no justice at all for these victims.

It is just supposition but I feel this gun plays in, others do not. I feel it was put in for a reason but maybe it was just to confuse, strategize or they feel is is another theory or some such. Some think KK would not lie because of her deal but I can think of a few reasons she would still take the chance and lie about certain bigger things that I won't go into here.

I have hope they will find KB's remains and the other things they are looking for at the landfill. That would clearly probably corroborate something they were apparently told.

Nothing will bring the victims back but I hope all who were involved in this end up where they deserve to. And I leave open the possibility there are others but not a fact so will leave it at that.

So anyhow, thanks for the great response as well; we all want the same result I think, for the most part anyway and that is what matters. Signed by, Long Winded Me

jmo

I absolutely guarantee you that the prosecution has more than we know.

And I also agree with you that we are dealing with a pack of known liars, starting with PF and KKL.

I further agree that people will lie under oath on a witness stand if they think they can get away with it. That's why defense attorneys rarely call defendants to the stand in cases such as these. The results can sink the case. Hans Reiser testified in his own defense and did himself no favors, for example.

I have been a juror twice. The first trial was a civil case between an electronics corp. and a real estate agency that lasted 7 1/2 weeks. The co-complainants were suing each other. Witnesses from both sides lied on the witness stand. We had stacks of evidence. We had to find the truth in those lies. In this case, it would not serve KKL to lie on the witness stand, but again, if she thought she could get away with it, I certainly wouldn't put it past her. I think SF will be a hostile witness. It will be an interesting trial to say the least.

Justice for Kelsey. She was a lovely young woman who should have lived a long, happy, fulfilling life. MOO

 

[enelram]

I didn't see the preliminary hearing and certainly don't have time to go back and read all of that stuff, so I am missing some info. After KK cleaned up KB's home, did she say what she did with the bags of stuff she took out (the rug, and clean up trash? Did that go into the fire as well?

Yes, she was clear she put all the bags outside beside KB's car and
then went an got the car she came in, drove it up and put the bags in it to take to PF's where they were burned.

 

[Oregon]

The only thing I can add: Although I have never lived an a small apartment or condo outside of a college dorm room. Is that it seems there would not be a lot of area to get away and shield ones self.

Especially if one didn't even know an attack was about to happen.

Also a normal wooden bat is roughly 28-36" and it can be swung in an aprox 4'6"-5' radius.

As long as their is 5'-6' feet between swinging a bat and an object I think that would be enough room.

If you think about swinging at a blindfolded human (shudders) I think as long as they were position 6' from another 5-6' foot tall object, such as a wall or lamp etc it wouldn't be very difficult to swing and make solid deadly contact. Its certainly plausible .MOO

Sorry for the graphic imagery.

I think I quoted the wrong post

I see the bat being used in a chopping motion, like an axe, not like swinging on a ball.