Ethiopian Air ET302, Boeing 737 crashes - 157 souls - 10 March 2019

[gregjrichards]

Flight attendant Elsbeth Minweylet was thrilled to have landed a shift on Ethiopian Airlines flight ET302 last Sunday morning.

The short return flight between Ethiopian capital Addis Ababa and Nairobi, Kenya, meant she would have some precious time at home with her husband Bayihe and their 10-month-old son Dani.

Bayihe, 33, said: “She particularly liked this flight as she went to Nairobi in the morning and came back to Addis Ababa in the afternoon. We could spend special family time with our son together.”

He dropped her off at the airport on Sunday morning and expected to collect her there in the afternoon. But she would never come home.

Husband's heartache as Ethiopian Airlines air hostess wife doesn't come home

May Elsbeth Minweylet Rest In Peace. My heart goes out to her husband and little boy.

 

[SuziQ]

View attachment 174352



From what I have learned on Airliners it is the rear tail wing which you can see in the photo.

Thank you!

 

[squid]

Israeli volunteers condemn Ethiopian government's handling of plane crash

Azriel Schnitzer, commander of the ZAKA delegation in Ethiopia, said, "We never encountered such a difficult situation. I was at the scene together with ZAKA volunteers."
ZAKA, a series of voluntary community emergency response teams in Israel, has condemned the Ethiopian government for its handling of the victims of Ethiopian Airlines Flight ET 302, accusing them of "severely damaging the dignity of those who perished in the disaster."

According to ZAKA, as soon as the plane crashed, "Locals raided the scene of the disaster in a looting campaign of the belongings of the victims, seriously damaging the dignity of the dead. And later in the week they went on the land with tractors and grain, without paying any attention to those who perished and with a terrible wave of respect for the dead. Preventing ZAKA volunteers from carrying out the sacred work of collecting the bodies and their parts."

SBM

 

[gregjrichards]

Graph shows something VERY wrong on doomed Ethiopian Boeing 737 MAX which pitched wildly prior to crash as screw-like device found in wreckage indicates plane was set to 'dive'

Ethiopia Boeing plane was set to 'dive' screw-like device found in the wreckage shows | Daily Mail Online

Information about the jackscrew and MCAS.

 

[gregjrichards]

Israeli volunteers condemn Ethiopian government's handling of plane crash

Azriel Schnitzer, commander of the ZAKA delegation in Ethiopia, said, "We never encountered such a difficult situation. I was at the scene together with ZAKA volunteers."
ZAKA, a series of voluntary community emergency response teams in Israel, has condemned the Ethiopian government for its handling of the victims of Ethiopian Airlines Flight ET 302, accusing them of "severely damaging the dignity of those who perished in the disaster."

According to ZAKA, as soon as the plane crashed, "Locals raided the scene of the disaster in a looting campaign of the belongings of the victims, seriously damaging the dignity of the dead. And later in the week they went on the land with tractors and grain, without paying any attention to those who perished and with a terrible wave of respect for the dead. Preventing ZAKA volunteers from carrying out the sacred work of collecting the bodies and their parts."

SBM

That is terrible I thought the crash site was protected by the men with guns I saw.

 

[gregjrichards]

Ethiopian Airlines said on Saturday that DNA testing of the remains of the 157 passengers on board flight 302 may take up to six months as it offered bereaved families charred earth from the plane crash site to bury.

Ethiopian Airlines says crash victim DNA tests will take up to six months | Reuters

 

[JudgeJudi]

According to ZAKA, as soon as the plane crashed, "Locals raided the scene of the disaster in a looting campaign of the belongings of the victims, seriously damaging the dignity of the dead. And later in the week they went on the land with tractors and grain, without paying any attention to those who perished and with a terrible wave of respect for the dead. Preventing ZAKA volunteers from carrying out the sacred work of collecting the bodies and their parts."

This is simply breathtaking. I wonder who is going to take responsibility for this. As if the families don't have enough to deal with, and now this. No respect for the dead. I don't care how poor those looters were, no human being with any sense of decency would do something like this.

 

[JudgeJudi]

He dropped her off at the airport on Sunday morning and expected to collect her there in the afternoon. But she would never come home.

May Elsbeth Minweylet Rest In Peace. My heart goes out to her husband and little boy.

It's so hard "liking" these sort of posts.

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

That is terrible I thought the crash site was protected by the men with guns I saw.

ITA, I am shocked that the area wasn’t closed off immediately. What a terrible disrespect for the dead. I don’t understand how this could happen and I feel so bad for those who died in this awful way. Can only imagine how horrific this is for their families and loved ones. My God.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Pilots are trained to handle emergency events during flight which can include disengaging certain controls. Warnings and alerts have short lead times - often under a minute and in many cases 20 to 30 seconds so the pilot has seconds to determine if the alert is accurate or false then react accordingly. In the Ethiopian crash the copilot had only 200 training hours so the pilot was essentially flying the plane alone.

I always thought the captain had control of the plane on take-off and landing. Wouldn't he have been giving the co-pilot instructions on what to do during the emergency irrespective of how few hours the co-pilot had? Surely the co-pilot would have been tasked with something..

If you're right, this makes it even more terrifying than it already is.

 

[gregjrichards]

It's so hard "liking" these sort of posts.

I know what you mean I wish we could “thank you” posts instead of “liking” them.

 

[gregjrichards]

ITA, I am shocked that the area wasn’t closed off immediately. What a terrible disrespect for the dead. I don’t understand how this could happen and I feel so bad for those who died in this awful way. Can only imagine how horrific this is for their families and loved ones. My God.

I agree it is horrific some personal belongings like a purse or a bag belonging to a loved one would mean a lot to the families waiting up to six months for remains.

 

[JudgeJudi]

I know what you mean I wish we could “thank you” posts instead of “liking” them.

I think everyone on WS would agree with you. Tricia doesn't care for "likes" either. Unfortunately it can't be changed, as you probably know.

 

[dotr]

Excavators may be damaging Ethiopia crash site: diplomats | Reuters
"Some policemen have also been taking selfies inside the yellow tape lines demarcating the scene, witnesses said."

“The handling of the site is disastrous because they are letting trucks and excavators drive over it,” an Addis Ababa-based diplomat, who has visited the site and is representing some families of victims, told Reuters."

"Reuters reporters at the scene have seen excavators scooping up dirt, personal effects and bits of metal from the plane."

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

Excavators may be damaging Ethiopia crash site: diplomats | Reuters
"Some policemen have also been taking selfies inside the yellow tape lines demarcating the scene, witnesses said."

“The handling of the site is disastrous because they are letting trucks and excavators drive over it,” an Addis Ababa-based diplomat, who has visited the site and is representing some families of victims, told Reuters."

"Reuters reporters at the scene have seen excavators scooping up dirt, personal effects and bits of metal from the plane."

Oh, this truly is heartbreaking!

 

[gregjrichards]

BEA | Bureau d'Enquêtes & d'Analyses @BEA_Aero

The cockpit voice recorder (photo on the left and middle)

Flight Data Recorder (photo on the right)

Both are undergoing analysis at the BEA in France.

 

[LadyL]

Brampton family leaves for Ethiopia to find remains of 6 family members lost in plane crash.

Brampton family leaves for Ethiopia to find remains of 6 family members lost in plane crash

 

[gregjrichards]

The BEA in France have managed to get the audio from the cockpit voice recorder. Work on the flight data recorder will resume tomorrow.

03/10 accident to the #Boeing737Max
@BoeingAirplanes
@flyethiopian
/ Data from the CVR has been successfully downloaded by
@BEA_Aero and transfered to the Ethiopian investigation team / communication on their behalf /@BEA_Aero
did not listen to the audio files.

 

[MsMarple]

I always thought the captain had control of the plane on take-off and landing. Wouldn't he have been giving the co-pilot instructions on what to do during the emergency irrespective of how few hours the co-pilot had? Surely the co-pilot would have been tasked with something..

If you're right, this makes it even more terrifying than it already is.

You're right in that the pilot controls the plane during takeoff but if he didn't disengage the MCAS once the nose turned down for no obvious reason then it would have continued to try and "correct" the angle of attack.

Preliminary data suggests that's what happened. If that was the cause then you have a confused pilot flying at a very high ground speed and an inexperienced copilot who may not have the reaction time of someone with more hours.

On top of this, once the plane thinks it's in a stall the stick (yoke) starts shaking and making a very loud rattling noise. At the same time warning lights were probably flashing and alarms sounding.

The trim cutoff switch on the Max is located between the pilot and copilot and once the trim system is shut off the MCAS stops. Either one could disable the trim but the pilot may have panicked since had his hands full trying to figure out what was happening (this is not a fact just conjecture right now) and while there is a checklist and procedure in the case of a runaway trim wheel the copilot may not have had enough training and/or air time to figure out the problem and follow the proper (and relatively easy) procedure.

Also, the yoke on the MAX has a slightly different ratio for the force required to change the pitch. I think most planes have a 1:1 ratio so 10 pounds of pull changes the pitch by 10 degrees but on the MAX the same force changes the pitch by 15 degrees.

That's still a lot of needed strength to pull the yoke back and better handled by two people if the plane is "fighting back." And every time they pulled the nose back up the MCAS pulled it back down. So the flight crew had their hands full (possibly) due to being unaware of the problem.

Most experienced pilots are trained to recognize malfunctions and emergencies and react accordingly. Many potentially fatal emergencies are handled well by competent pilots. In this case I won't be surprised if the NTSB finds lack of training to be a contributing factor.

Again, I'm not saying any of this caused the crash but the evidence suggests the possibility. All MOO.

 

[gregjrichards]

You're right in that the pilot controls the plane during takeoff but if he didn't disengage the MCAS once the nose turned down for no obvious reason then it would have continued to try and "correct" the angle of attack.

Preliminary data suggests that's what happened. If that was the cause then you have a confused pilot flying at a very high ground speed and an inexperienced copilot who may not have the reaction time of someone with more hours.

On top of this, once the plane thinks it's in a stall the stick (yoke) starts shaking and making a very loud rattling noise. At the same time warning lights were probably flashing and alarms sounding.

The trim cutoff switch on the Max is located between the pilot and copilot and once the trim system is shut off the MCAS stops. Either one could disable the trim but the pilot may have panicked since had his hands full trying to figure out what was happening (this is not a fact just conjecture right now) and while there is a checklist and procedure in the case of a runaway trim wheel the copilot may not have had enough training and/or air time to figure out the problem and follow the proper (and relatively easy) procedure.

Also, the yoke on the MAX has a slightly different ratio for the force required to change the pitch. I think most planes have a 1:1 ratio so 10 pounds of pull changes the pitch by 10 degrees but on the MAX the same force changes the pitch by 15 degrees.

That's still a lot of needed strength to pull the yoke back and better handled by two people if the plane is "fighting back." And every time they pulled the nose back up the MCAS pulled it back down. So the flight crew had their hands full (possibly) due to being unaware of the problem.

Most experienced pilots are trained to recognize malfunctions and emergencies and react accordingly. Many potentially fatal emergencies are handled well by competent pilots. In this case I won't be surprised if the NTSB finds lack of training to be a contributing factor.

Again, I'm not saying any of this caused the crash but the evidence suggests the possibility. All MOO.

I just don’t see how a software fix is going to solve this situation. The MAX was being sold to airlines by Boeing as just like the 737 only better with no additional training required to fly it. How it got certification with MCAS I don’t know. Personally I would be relieved if it never flies passengers again. I just don’t see this situation being resolved anytime soon and the plane being cleared to fly by regulators around the globe. The CVR and FDR data is going to be critical I am so glad it looks like the BEA in France are going to be able to retrieve the FDR data as well.