CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #50 *ARREST*

[MassGuy]

My deep sadness continues for the loss of such a bright life as KB.
BUT
I have no idea how PF could have thought that anyone would buy his "story" of KB just "taking off" without telling anyone in this time of cell phones, text messages, etc. Especially given KB had a responsible job, a young child, and a close relationship with her parents. JMO

However, back in the stone age in the late 1990s I dissapeared from my family for 6 weeks and none of my 3 siblings or my parents missed me.

I left a responsible job in my 30s and took 6 weeks off before beginning another responsible job. I traveled around the western and south pacific on a great vacation. Only my girlfriend back in the US knew my itenerary. I called all my family before I left but told them nothing of my job switch or plans. I faxed my girlfriend from Vietnam to let her know I was doing GREAT, called my elderly aunt and uncle from Bangkok because I knew they would miss hearing from me but I just made it seem like I was at home.

When I got back to LAX, I called all my family and nobody missed me for SIX WEEKS! Granted my siblings were busy with their kids and jobs, my parents were busy moving into a new house, and I was usually the one who called them because I was hard to reach because of my work hard/play hard lifestyle.

But STILL, I was gone for SIX WEEKS! Now if I don't answer a text from my family in 6 HOURS they call me to see if I'm alive. Different times.

PF and KK are clearly not members of MENSA.
MOO
Justice for Kelsey. Justice for Ying Ying.

Ha! Those were certainly different times back then.

PF’s screw ups were spectacular, but even had things gone according to plan, the scenario he was selling was absurd.

His family and friends would have believed it, because he had laid the groundwork for some time, courtesy of the lies he made up about Kelsey.

No one else would have bought it though, and the way this all went down, is proof of that.

When PF overthinks, he ends up making mistakes.

Fortunately, he made some fatal ones.

For him.

 

[MyBelle]

i value your devils advocate mybelle its important we see things 360 degrees but I truly think there is a very big binder of proof to back up KKs whereabouts and accusations by the written wording in the affidavit (I think...there.. off the cuff) by LE that she is a proven liar.

LE do not throw statements like that around lightly and for them to give her the sweetie deal she has doesn't gel simply for phone pings imo.

there is compelling evidence we are yet to see.

moo

I hope you are right but have serious doubts. I think PF absolutely is guilty and should rot in jail but proving it is going to be very difficult because much of KK's testimony can't be corroborated.

LE didn't make the sweet plea deal, the DA did. It would not surprise me if LE is outraged by it.

I fear the sweet deal will backfire with the jury. The defense will have the jury believing KK had the strong motive to kill not only KB but also to blame it all on PF. I agree with others who have pointed out KK's timeline is too absurd to be believed and it is obvious she was stalking KB and she almost followed through three different times.

KK premeditated, planned, assisted, covered up, obstructed, participated in a fraud and yes, lied to the FBI. She was complicit which is why she didn't step in and alert authorities. The sweet deal is insulting to KB and her family.

If a jury doesn't have evidence that a death did occur, how do they decide it was murder vs. accident? First degree, second degree or manslaughter? The Colorado attorney with the podcast has pointed out the defense can ask for a jury instruction on complicity if there isn't corroborating evidence to KK's claims.

2016 Colorado Revised Statutes :: Title 18 - :: Criminal Code :: Article 1 - Provisions Applicable to Offenses Generally :: Part 6 - :: Parties to Offenses - Accountability :: § 18-1-603. Complicity

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

iirc, the keys are important because PF told CB he had returned them to KB. Just another one of his lies.

JMO

 

[NanZDrew]

I hope you are right but have serious doubts. I think PF absolutely is guilty and should rot in jail but proving it is going to be very difficult because much of KK's testimony can't be corroborated.

LE didn't make the sweet plea deal, the DA did. It would not surprise me if LE is outraged by it.

I fear the sweet deal will backfire with the jury. The defense will have the jury believing KK had the strong motive to kill not only KB but also to blame it all on PF. I agree with others who have pointed out KK's timeline is too absurd to be believed and it is obvious she was stalking KB and she almost followed through three different times.

KK premeditated, planned, assisted, covered up, obstructed, participated in a fraud and yes, lied to the FBI. She was complicit which is why she didn't step in and alert authorities. The sweet deal is insulting to KB and her family.

If a jury doesn't have evidence that a death did occur, how do they decide it was murder vs. accident? First degree, second degree or manslaughter? The Colorado attorney with the podcast has pointed out the defense can ask for a jury instruction on complicity if there isn't corroborating evidence to KK's claims.

2016 Colorado Revised Statutes :: Title 18 - :: Criminal Code :: Article 1 - Provisions Applicable to Offenses Generally :: Part 6 - L:: Parties to Offenses - Accountability :: § 18-1-603. Complicity

It will likely be at least two years before this really goes to court. They will sentence her after the trial. If they find she has lied, the plea deal is off the table. LE has interviewed people. As the trial progresses, there will be depositions taken, under oath, of all of these people. Time will have passed and people will forget some of their lies. Then cross-examination at trial. There will be plenty of times for people to contradict themselves. PF's big mistake was involving KK in it. She has yapped to everybody. Some of those people have even gone on Facebook pages and argued and threatened people. Loose lips, sink ships.

Had PF done this himself, simply strangled her and took her body out on Black Mountain where he leased land, left her purse and phone at her house, left his phone at home when he was doing the bad stuff, and let the police try to form their own theories..it would have been hard to pin this on him. Instead, the criminal mastermind (sarcasm) tried to form an elaborate scenario and confided in people that tell everybody and their dog the whole gruesome story.

 

[MassGuy]

It will likely be at least two years before this really goes to court. They will sentence her after the trial. If they find she has lied, the plea deal is off the table. LE has interviewed people. As the trial progresses, there will be depositions taken, under oath, of all of these people. Time will have passed and people will forget some of their lies. Then cross-examination at trial. There will be plenty of times for people contradict themselves. PF's big mistake was involving KK in it. She has yapped to everybody. Some of those people have even gone on Facebook pages and argued and threatened people. Loss lips, sink ships.

Had PF done this himself, simply strangled her and took her body out on Black Mountain where he leased land, left her purse and phone at her house, left his phone at home when he was doing the bad stuff, and let the police try to form their own theories..it would have been hard to pin this on him. Instead, the criminal mastermind (sarcasm) tried to form an elaborate scenario and confided in people that tell everybody and their dog the whole gruesome story.

Exactly. Had he done what you said, this would be a case of “we know he did it, but we can’t prove it.”

Fortunately, he’s a dumbass.

I really can’t emphasize that point enough.

 

[NanZDrew]

iirc, the keys are important because PF told CB he had returned them to KB. Just another one of his lies.

JMO

Yes, there should have been 2 sets of house keys and car keys. Hers and his.

 

[MyBelle]

It will likely be at least two years before this really goes to court. They will sentence her after the trial. If they find she has lied, the plea deal is off the table. LE has interviewed people. As the trial progresses, there will be depositions taken, under oath, of all of these people. Time will have passed and people will forget some of their lies. Then cross-examination at trial. There will be plenty of times for people to contradict themselves. PF's big mistake was involving KK in it. She has yapped to everybody. Some of those people have even gone on Facebook pages and argued and threatened people. Loose lips, sink ships.

Had PF done this himself, simply strangled her and took her body out on Black Mountain where he leased land, left her purse and phone at her house, left his phone at home when he was doing the bad stuff, and let the police try to form their own theories..it would have been hard to pin this on him. Instead, the criminal mastermind (sarcasm) tried to form an elaborate scenario and confided in people that tell everybody and their dog the whole gruesome story.

I think it is bizarre that PF involved KK for the very reasons you list. It makes no sense.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Yes, there should have been 2 sets of house keys and car keys. Hers and his.

Exactly right!

 

[Deleted member 102539]

2 hours 20 away??

IF KKL had taken the corpse to Idaho, it would have been even 11 hours away .....

 

[acutename]

The jury will want evidence PF is responsible for KB's disappearance and also her murder. PF didn't end up with KB's cell phone, it was in KK's possession.

Not answering a phone isn't evidence of a crime. It certainly isn't evidence of death. And her phone didn't cease communication. Her mother received additional text as did PF and KB's employer.

JMO

the texts on 11/25 were written differently than KB ever wrote (incompete sentences) and the text to work was probably (hinted at but we have not been told ) not as per company policy for taking leave.

 

[Noharg]

Three weeks until the April 4th disposition hearing and then April 5th for the arraignment. Surely custody of K will remain with the B’s. I don’t think the arraignment will reveal anything new although this case so far has been full of surprises. Thoughts?
JMO

 

[vaporlass]

Good rule of thumb if anybody ever answers my question with.... "Here's the story" I automatically assume its a Big phat frickin lie.....
Ab01's daily words of wisdom

Yes, it sounds like he forgot for a moment that he wasn’t talking to his minion(s) and coming up with The Story that he intended to tell everyone.
I would like to put him in a bag, alive, and burn him... after reading some of the texts on the last day. She loved him... she trusted him, she allowed him to wrap her head in that sweater. Kind of reminds me of the line in “Green Mile” ... “He killed them with their love...”
He is a disgrace to humanity ... if I was related to him or friends with him ... I’d be hoping he is put to death.
Sorry I can’t seem to respond without feeling emotional...

 

[Irmese]

Or it is powerful evidence she doesn't want to talk to anyone. Adults can disappear themselves and many have done it which is why LE hesitates to get involved right away. KK's use of KB's cellphone was intended to delay LE getting involved and it worked.

JMO

It could be interpreted that KB didn't want to talk to anyone, but when you consider that she was in frequent contact with her mom and CB knew of no breakup or KB traveling, that she planned on making a couple of food items that day (looking forward to entertaining at least PF), that she bought a poinsettia (looking forward to Christmas). Suicides and intentional disappearances are not usually spur of the moment decisions. They are thought about and planned for. We know she didn't commit suicide, unless she splattered a lot of her own blood around her townhouse then hid somewhere that she hasn't been found to die. It's highly unlikely she disappeared herself. If PF didn't have anything to do with her death or being missing, why did he go back to her condo when he told LE he didn't and why was he texting himself with her phone which he had with him?

 

[Irmese]

I found this same "article" Unfortunately, I found it at 3am and made myself sick with it. Sometimes , I think I should limit my own Google search capabilities !

Thanks for googling that. I didn't want to do a search on that.

 

[Irmese]

The burden of proof is on the prosecution, not the defense. I have no idea what their defense will be but it likely will include tearing KK to shreds.

JMO

It would be nice if the body and murder weapon is found, but I think the blood in the condo, PF's lies to LE and to KB's family and the phone records can be sewn into a nice little bag that fits PF. KK's stories are the icing on the cake. She connected the dots for LE. I do believe the defense is going to try to put it all on KK, but the phone records between KB's phone and PF's phone when the two were traveling together is going to be what does PF in.

 

[NanZDrew]

the texts on 11/25 were written differently than KB ever wrote (incompete sentences) and the text to work was probably (hinted at but we have not been told ) not as per company policy for taking leave.

And those fragmented texts/different writing style, tipped off a mother that knew her daughter, that something was amiss. I remember in the early days of this case, some of the members on here mentioning that this could be the case. They mentioned that even without a phone number, caller id, or name signature, they could read a text message and know what child that message came from.

 

[MyBelle]

BBM, IBM, UBM:

KK's testimony CAN be corroborated and that corroboration has been posted in this thread numerously.
The evidence and "sweet deal" for KK that you cite above will not backfire on LE, imho, because the jurors are not stupid.

It could be interpreted that KB didn't want to talk to anyone, but when you consider that she was in frequent contact with her mom and CB knew of no breakup or KB traveling, that she planned on making a couple of food items that day (looking forward to entertaining at least PF), that she bought a poinsettia (looking forward to Christmas). Suicides and intentional disappearances are not usually spur of the moment decisions. They are thought about and planned for. We know she didn't commit suicide, unless she splattered a lot of her own blood around her townhouse then hid somewhere that she hasn't been found to die. It's highly unlikely she disappeared herself. If PF didn't have anything to do with her death or being missing, why did he go back to her condo when he told LE he didn't and why was he texting himself with her phone which he had with him?

BBM. My only point is that KB's "silence" is not enough to establish time of death. That's all.

I have never suggested PF didn't have anything to do with KB's death. I think the guy is off the charts with toxic narcissism.

JMO

 

[Irmese]

Sorry about your poor experience, but you make such a valid point.

PF phone pings south of Florissant tower 11/24 6:19PM. By the time PF and KK (whose phone is not pinging?), arrive to the F ranchette and get this fire going, it is no earlier than 7:00PM.

We are to believe that after this 3-4 burn per KK, a fire that wasn't long enough or hot enough to eliminate a body, smelling of bloody cleanup, 2-day old corpse, now a plastics-gas-oil-cadaver fire... they ran out for pizza at the only place pizza is available at 10-11PM in Florissant.

Then adding pizza smell to all of the above, no later than 11:00PM KK jumps in MG's car with KB's gun that still smells of dead body after being in the tote for two days, and drives nonstop to get to Cisco, Utah by 4:11AM so KB's phone can ping.

KK has been constantly awake doing something, often something smelly, without a shower, for 34 hours at this point in her story (6:30PM 11/23 to 4:11AM 11/25), and she has a long way to drive to make the pings in SLC and Idaho on time.

KK is not telling the truth. That's my opinion. MOO IMO JMO

I agree she's not telling the whole truth. I would not be surprised that she was taking speed, and I'm sure she was more jacked up than ever after burning the tote. I still think the body was just starting to smell when it was burnt, because of the cool temps. I don't think the gun would have held a lot of odor and if it was bloody, they probably wiped it. I was watching a program with the Body Farm doc and he specifically talked about the timeline of the odor of a decaying body and he said it would begin to smell on the second or third day, and this was a body where the weather was warmer day and night, in the summer. The body in the tote was in cooler temps, probably not higher than mid 50's during the day and possibly quite a bit cooler, and down to below freezing at night. What do you think KK is lying about?

 

[MyBelle]

It would be nice if the body and murder weapon is found, but I think the blood in the condo, PF's lies to LE and to KB's family and the phone records can be sewn into a nice little bag that fits PF. KK's stories are the icing on the cake. She connected the dots for LE. I do believe the defense is going to try to put it all on KK, but the phone records between KB's phone and PF's phone when the two were traveling together is going to be what does PF in.

I wish I shared your confidence. I think KK's stories are incredible embellishments that could backfire with the jury.

JMO

 

[Irmese]

I do wonder if over the months, PF and KK planned it so that would be each others' reasonable doubt. KK has her deal, her lawyer was with her for the 4.5 hour video testimony and will prep her and keep her on track at trial. KK will be the source of multiple reasonable doubts perhaps resulting in a hopelessly hung jury or even a Casey A. acquittal. It could be KK does her 3 years, PF spends 3 years in county jail, and that's it.

If they did plan it that way it was an incredibly bad plan. They could have just said, yeah, we were having an affair, KB found out and left. Then he wouldn't have kept her phone for two days and she wouldn't have carried it Idaho.