Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #15 *ARREST*

[Newthoughts]

Just because people unlock/open windows and doors doesn't mean they get secured again before someone leaves a property for the day or vacates it for the holidays!

It doesn't indeed, but a lot will lock up these days.

People don't need to get in through open windows and doors. Entry through faulty or broken ones counts as trespass as long as you haven't broken it. Not a lot you can do about a broken window or faulty door as a tenant and they wouldn't necessarily be obvious to passers by

 

[Newthoughts]

What does that have to do with it? It's still burglary, what they take is irrelevant.

Not really. What he's stolen is highly relevant. If someone breaks into my house I expect to lose lap tops, tablets, cash, cards, bills, passports. I don't expect to lose pants and condoms and sex toys. I know lots of people who've been burgled. I don't know anyone anyone that has had those things stolen.

So I'd say s lesss likely to be opportunistic though. Even less so when taken in conjunction with voyeurism and offending public decency.

If you're looking for patterns - setting out to steal sex toys and pants from a house with women tenants goes better with voyeurism and offending public decency. I knew sex toys are more common these days but still not as common as lap tops / phones etc. The financial rewards of his alleged crimes are hardly worth the effort. 3 vibrators in 2017?

 

[JosieJo]

We just don't have the info (don't expect to be given the info) and he just doesn't seem a criminal mastermind. The jump from possible flasher to murderer? Even if accidental.
if he is guilty he's been incredibly lucky, seemingly very little hard evidence (he'd have been charged by now if there was anything exceptionally concrete) and all the events have lead to him not been completely incriminated.
I definitely believe he was with LS on that night and possibly the last to see her alive. That's as far as I can get.

I'm with you at the minute... I believe he took her in the car .. I believe its very likely he was the "cause" of her death ..but until post mortem results known I cant automatically jump to murder or manslaughter by physical harm yet

Yes they can take their time to get a water tight case which is only right ...but it also has to be considered that the Coroner has a duty to releasea body asap to the relatives ..and the process of charging etc not even started..but the fact that it's been 2 weeks now since she was found worries me ..yes I know some tests take a while ...I dont think they have any smoking gun yet

 

[Hatfield]

IMO
I am bothered by the downplaying of his crimes that he has already been charged with.

To me, the burglary charges alone are very serious and should demand a serious penalty no matter what he took.

Heck, here in the US a burglar is risking their life if they break into a home because a lot of the US states now have "Castle Doctrine" laws which allow a homeowner to shoot a home invader. I know this is the UK we are talking about, but this shows the seriousness of his offenses he is charged with.

In U.S. :

"Typically, state laws can allow for the use of deadly physical force and it's legally presumed to be justified if an intruder is in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering a dwelling or residence."

"The Castle Doctrine stems from old English Common Law that holds that your home is your castle and that you have a right to defend your castle."

Is it Legal to Shoot an Intruder? - FindLaw

 

[Skigh]

I am sure he took far more things than that in 2017.

 

[JosieJo]

I agree, people may be overthinking this somewhat. Petty burglaries are mostly the result of opportunism rather than careful planning. We only know about the times he got lucky, not the failures where he couldn't gain entry, someone came past at the crucial time, lights came on etc.

This is how I feel at the minute

Yes of course flashing and his behaviour charges are not "minor" and will very likely to be relevant to what happened to libby but the burglaries I feel are just opportunistic and were only discovered because of the search of his house..no criminal mastermind imo

 

[Hatfield]

Not really. What he's stolen is highly relevant. If someone breaks into my house I expect to lose lap tops, tablets, cash, cards, bills, passports. I don't expect to lose pants and condoms and sex toys. I know lots of people who've been burgled. I don't know anyone anyone that has had those things stolen.

So I'd say s lesss likely to be opportunistic though. Even less so when taken in conjunction with voyeurism and offending public decency.

If you're looking for patterns - setting out to steal sex toys and pants from a house with women tenants goes better with voyeurism and offending public decency. I knew sex toys are more common these days but still not as common as lap tops / phones etc. The financial rewards of his alleged crimes are hardly worth the effort. 3 vibrators in 2017?

Please let us not forget he is charged with stealing computer equipment and other stuff.

"He is also charged with stealing a laptop, a Kindle, a speaker"

Polish butcher arrested over Libby Squire's disappearance is charged with seven more offences | Daily Mail Online

 

[Cherwell]

Not really. What he's stolen is highly relevant. If someone breaks into my house I expect to lose lap tops, tablets, cash, cards, bills, passports. I don't expect to lose pants and condoms and sex toys. I know lots of people who've been burgled. I don't know anyone anyone that has had those things stolen.

So I'd say s lesss likely to be opportunistic though. Even less so when taken in conjunction with voyeurism and offending public decency.

If you're looking for patterns - setting out to steal sex toys and pants from a house with women tenants goes better with voyeurism and offending public decency. I knew sex toys are more common these days but still not as common as lap tops / phones etc. The financial rewards of his alleged crimes are hardly worth the effort. 3 vibrators in 2017?

I still don't think that has any bearing on what I said, which was:
Petty burglaries are mostly the result of opportunism rather than careful planning. We only know about the times he got lucky, not the failures where he couldn't gain entry, someone came past at the crucial time, lights came on etc.

Just because he has kinky tastes does not mean he isn't opportunistic. We have only been told about certain items: those are the items he still had in his possession. He may have stolen other things that had already been disposed of. He may have attempted and aborted plenty of other burglaries.

 

[Cherwell]

I've briefly toyed with the idea that he could've supplemented his income by working as a courier, though. They often work on a freelance basis and use their own transport - anecdotally speaking, my delivery drivers seem to be largely foreign nationals. It'd also give you names, addresses and a semi-passable reason for being in someone's back garden (their 'safe place'). I've no idea how that sits with the timing of offences and his work schedule. It perhaps doesn't.

I don't think he's likely to have been working as a courier, simply because he's in a full-time job and I don't see him having the time. But carrying a fake parcel and pretending you're looking for a non-existent person/address would be a good excuse if challenged, as you say.

 

[Vermont24]

I don't think he's likely to have been working as a courier, simply because he's in a full-time job and I don't see him having the time. But carrying a fake parcel and pretending you're looking for a non-existent person/address would be a good excuse if challenged, as you say.

I know people that do it on a part-time, weekend-only basis.

Most of these theories are just conjecture. I'm not wedded to it or anything

 

[Joolz1975]

IMO
I am bothered by the downplaying of his crimes that he has already been charged with.

To me, the burglary charges alone are very serious and should demand a serious penalty no matter what he took.

Heck, here in the US a burglar is risking their life if they break into a home because a lot of the US states now have "Castle Doctrine" laws which allow a homeowner to shoot a home invader. I know this is the UK we are talking about, but this shows the seriousness of his offenses he is charged with.

In U.S. :

"Typically, state laws can allow for the use of deadly physical force and it's legally presumed to be justified if an intruder is in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering a dwelling or residence."

"The Castle Doctrine stems from old English Common Law that holds that your home is your castle and that you have a right to defend your castle."

Is it Legal to Shoot an Intruder? - FindLaw

Obviously I don't have a gun BUT if somebody broke into my house (again) you can bet your life they would get a severe beating with the baseball bat I keep in my bedroom (husband has come close when he has annoyed me too ).

 

[Newthoughts]

Please let us not forget he is charged with stealing computer equipment and other stuff.

"He is also charged with stealing a laptop, a Kindle, a speaker"

Polish butcher arrested over Libby Squire's disappearance is charged with seven more offences | Daily Mail Online

A laptop, A kindle and A speaker. From what could be a student house? A student house with probably more than one student yet he only managed one laptop, one kindle and one speaker?

That's not a very good opportunistic haul given what could possibly be on offer. Laptops and speakers are very common and lots of opportunists also grab paperwork to sell on to identity thieves. My friend was recently burgled whilst picking her kids up from school. They got more valuables than PR did in 20 minutes.

He's been charged with 12 offences over 2 years. 5 are burglary, two of those burglaries involve sex toys. The others involvr rderisory amounts. That's not many burglaries for an opportunist. Not a great income.

Plus what he stole is incredibly relevant however he did it. No financial gain from any of that. Even condoms are free on the NHS

 

[Newthoughts]

This is how I feel at the minute

Yes of course flashing and his behaviour charges are not "minor" and will very likely to be relevant to what happened to libby but the burglaries I feel are just opportunistic and were only discovered because of the search of his house..no criminal mastermind imo

Would he need to be a criminal Mastermind just to watch young women though? And look for weak points? He's been charged with 'watching' offences. I'm not suggesting rigorous planning I'm suggesting choosing possible victims and then looking for opportunities rather than vice versa

Possibly earlier burglaries could have just been opportunistic. But in the weeks running up to Libby's disappearance he allegedly committed a third of the 2 years worth of offences.
Every one of them had a sexual element.

Voyeurism, offending public decency and then one possible burglary days before she disappears in which he strikes lucky in finding pants, sex toys, condoms and photos yet is unlucky in the saleable goods Dept.

So either he's taken a break from his increasingly busy willy based crimes to go looking for houses to rob and Strikes extremely lucky or he had an inkling of what he'd find.

 

[JosieJo]

Would he need to be a criminal Mastermind just to watch young women though? And look for weak points? He's been charged with 'watching' offences.

Possibly earlier burglaries could have just been opportunistic. But in the weeks running up to Libby's disappearance he allegedly committed a third of the 2 years worth of offences.
Every one of them had a sexual element.

Voyeurism, offending public decency and then one possible burglary days before she disappears in which he strikes lucky in finding pants, sex toys, condoms and photos yet is unlucky in the saleable goods Dept.

So either he's taken a break from his increasingly busy willy based crimes to go looking for houses to rob and Strikes extremely lucky or he had an inkling of what he'd find.

Anything is possible till we hear evidence... everything is "targeted" to a degree ..its whether he was hanging around in the area and did his "acts" based on seeing these women that night .. or whether he had watched specific women over a period of time

Same with burglaries..did he target specific houses because if the people or decided to break in based on something he saw on the day

I tend to think the latter at the moment

 

[Cherwell]

A laptop, A kindle and A speaker. From what could be a student house? A student house with probably more than one student yet he only managed one laptop, one kindle and one speaker?

That's not a very good opportunistic haul given what could possibly be on offer. Laptops and speakers are very common and lots of opportunists also grab paperwork to sell on to identity thieves. My friend was recently burgled whilst picking her kids up from school. They got more valuables than PR did in 20 minutes.

He's been charged with 12 offences over 2 years. 5 are burglary, two of those burglaries involve sex toys. The others involvr rderisory amounts. That's not many burglaries for an opportunist. Not a great income.

Plus what he stole is incredibly relevant however he did it. No financial gain from any of that. Even condoms are free on the NHS

What makes you think that's all he stole? He could have stolen lots more stuff over the last couple of years, and sold it on. That's what burglars generally do with their haul - they steal items to get cash for them. They get rid of it asap.

And we're only hearing about what the police have charged him with. There may be many more offences "to be taken into consideration".

 

[kate2931]

I’m still finding it surprising that some can’t see the link between flashing, voyeurism & stealing sex toys with sexual assault and murder!

PR does not need to be a master criminal OR very clever to have done what he did ! There is no giant leap to murder because these paraphilic behaviours are already linked. It’s a natural progression! (For those that choose to follow this path)

He only needed motive and opportunity,..
I actually think that to stalk someone requires at least some degree of smarts & skill - I wouldn’t have a clue where to start.

The first ever case found guilty through the use of DNA in the U.K. was that of Colin Pitchfork.

He had exposed himself over 1,000 times before he attacked a young girl, just his second victim was attacked AND murdered.
Double child killer denied parole

Who’s to say PR hasn’t attacked women before ? We certainly know he was prolific in the exposure stakes, of what has actually been reported. The question then would be why did he progress to murder when not all men that display these paraphilic behaviours do? I absolutely hate to discuss this but I feel Libby was either murdered to silence her as a witness as he grew in confidence or deducing from PR’s sexually deviant behaviour - erotophonophilia, which I can’t bring myself to discuss. Just trying to highlight the obvious linkage of his behaviour and murder like many, many convicted men before him.

I think his intent was present, even if it was in his subconscious.

Edited to add, that pitchfork was very recently spotted on day release in Bristol.

 

[Newthoughts]

What makes you think that's all he stole? He could have stolen lots more stuff over the last couple of years, and sold it on. That's what burglars generally do with their haul - they steal items to get cash for them. They get rid of it asap.

And we're only hearing about what the police have charged him with. There may be many more offences "to be taken into consideration".

If he was into selling stolen goods how come he took so little of value from Ventnor road?

He's been charged with five minor burglaries if you're looking solely in terms of monetary value. If he left evidence that allowed the police to link him to those so easily, surely the same evidence would link him to other petty or not so petty thefts equally easily - if he were a regular opportunist selling stuff on asap. Why not Chuck all the easy thefts at him?

My other question is why would he take a break from weekends spent on voyeurism and masturbating to go back to just petty opportunistic theft for financial gain in the run up to Libby's disappearance? And conveniently be so lucky in what he found?

I don't think he's a criminal Mastermind and I agree with your earlier lost that there are probably lots of failures where he didn't get in. But I do think it's possible his petty thefts did not all have a selling on asap motive. I think some were sexually motivated. I think he could have chosen his potential victims.

 

[Cherwell]

If he was into selling stolen goods how come he took so little of value from Ventnor road?

I don't have a detailed knowledge of what he took from where, or what else was available to be stolen.

He's been charged with five minor burglaries if you're looking solely in terms of monetary value. If he left evidence that allowed the police to link him to those so easily, surely the same evidence would link him to other petty or not so petty thefts equally easily - if he were a regular opportunist selling stuff on asap. Why not Chuck all the easy thefts at him?

I have no idea what evidence the police have that links him to these or other offences. It seems clear that these are not a priority in the present circumstances. No doubt in the fullness of time the police will be pleased to clear up any outstanding crimes that lie at his door, but there is plenty of time for that.

My other question is why would he take a break from weekends spent on voyeurism and masturbating to go back to just petty opportunistic theft for financial gain in the run up to Libby's disappearance? And conveniently be so lucky in what he found?

I don't think he's a criminal Mastermind and I agree with your earlier lost that there are probably lots of failures where he didn't get in. But I do think it's possible his petty thefts did not all have a selling on asap motive. I think some were sexually motivated. I think he could have chosen his potential victims.

I can only guess that he took whatever opportunities presented themselves. Possibly some of his activities ticked both boxes - the thrill-seeking and the gains.

 

[Skigh]

I could see him taking very personal items and then returning to see who owned them and getting a sexual thrill from knowing he had their pants or other items.

 

[EricaAmbrose1]

Can someone explain please why LE don't do renactment of suspected or known crimes anymore ?Was this just on crimewatch? Has it ceased to be useful? Would it have helped when Libby first was missing.Is this because they have a person in custody even on other charges
.? They do seem to be asking for witnesses as per croda cctv. Im sorry if this seems insensitive in the present circumstsnces. .I mean in the very beginning when Libby was missing.Woukd it have helped with more witnesses coming forward maybe ?