CA CA - Hannah, 16, Devonte, 15, & Sierra Hart, 12, Mendocino County, 26 Mar 2018 #4

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K_Z said:
Perhaps. Maybe they superficially intended for the cliff plunge to look like an accident, but I'm skeptical about that.

It's hard for me to imagine that 2 relatively smart women could be that stupid. Did they really think their movements could not be tracked? Did they think paying cash completely covered their movements versus a credit card? Did they not know every inch of stores are monitored with security cameras, most especially check out lines?? Did they really think all they had to do was "delete" the history of a search on a smart phone and *poof*, it was "gone"? And did they really think that the high doses of Benadryl would never be discovered in their bodies??

To me, their actions in leaving (panicked fleeing, escaping), and once they continued on the run down the coast seem chaotic, unplanned (or planned only briefly before implementing), and on the fly. Impulsive. All they could process, IMO, was fleeing. Run. Escape. Must take kids and run. Unable to rationally process any coping decisions beyond fleeing with the kids, and ultimately ending it all in cowardly drug induced Thelma and Louise plunge, taking 6 innocents with them.

Their actions every single time they were confronted about problems with the kids, allegations of abuse, were to take the kids and run away/ move away/ get away. Murder/ suicide is the ultimate "run away" move. I think they were tired of running away, and didn't care about how they were found. They only seemed to care that they were powerful enough take the kids lives in addition to their own.

I find it interesting that only 3 of the kids had high levels of Benadryl in their systems. I also wonder about the interval between drug ingestion and death-- at that kind of enteric dosage (especially if the drug was in pill or capsule form), vomiting would be common.

I wonder if 2-3 of them were going along with the suicide plan, and 3 weren't, so those 3 had to be persuaded to cooperate with chemicals? Or were the kids allowed to choose whether or not to take the drugs to dull their senses? That wouldn't make sense to me, because the Hart kids were hardly ever allowed to make any decisions for themselves. It would seem odd if they were "allowed" to decide whether or not to take an overdose of drugs in preparation for their death.

I do think the kids were almost certainly victims of "Stockholm Syndrome". The continuous psychological manipulation these kids suffered was extreme, IMO.
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I doubt if the kids had a clue what the Benedryl would do.

I imagine they were used to seeing intoxication with their mothers.

The chiropractor who murdered four people in North Dakota had served in the military, had an RN degree and then went on to get a chiropractor license. He thought he could fool cameras. Many many cameras. He went as far as a disguise
 
cinsbythesea said:
While I understand it's quite possible Devonte could have washed all the way out to sea and that's why he hasn't been found, I still find it very suspicious that ALL of the other children were found (in some cases only a foot but Hannah was still accounted for) but not Devonte who I think the *mothers* blamed for all this happening in the first place. My fear has always been that they dropped he and his dog off at some remote area and left him. I don't know why I can't shake this feeling.

This whole case has haunted me. But I have to say the fact that they can find your deleted searches on Google is very tech-creepy to me. I guess nothing is ever really deleted. So invasive.
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I am not the only one that feels that way? I feel also that they would feel or know he was the one who brought CPS at them for some reason. If the kids were drilled and threatened on who "told", I would not doubt he took the blame for it and admitted to it in an attempt to save the others. I also feel he may have been old enough that he resisted this "ride" or the overall trip. He has never been found... I cannot shake the feeling either. I would like to think he got away but I actually think the opposite, that he paid for "talking" and perhaps before the car went over the cliff. In either case, I feel he is no longer here with us.
 
Does anyone else think it’s some kind of justice that Jennifer’s body fell out of the SUV as they were towing it up the cliff?

“Jennifer Hart also had many external injuries, he said. It’s impossible to know what injuries she sustained in the crash and what injuries occurred after her body fell out of the SUV onto the rocky coastline as authorities towed it up the cliff, Pizarro said.”

Hart family inquest: Sarah Hart had toxic level of Benadryl in system when fatal cliff plunge occurred
 
Okay I think I’m caught up on inquest details now. Regarding whether or not they tried to cover their tracks, I think they did. I suspect, based on SH’s phone searches, that they thought the vehicle would land out in the ocean instead of along the rocks. And that evidence of Benadryl and alcohol
Would either be washed away by the time they were found, or that their bodies would be washed out to sea, because none of them were wearing seatbelts.

This still breaks my heart AND makes me furious all at the same time. So many missed opportunities to help these children and get them away from the momsters. It even makes me mad when articles refer to them as the children’s mothers. They are people who adopted the children. Not moms.
 
Authorities estimating Jen had 5 beers to drink before driving off the cliff.

Interesting detail that the women's room at home was decorated, but the kids rooms were bare.

Jennifer Hart drove family off a cliff as her wife looked up how much they would suffer, a jury says - CNN

I wonder if the murder/ suicide ruling will produce any lawsuits now? I know the birth families of some of the kids were in the news a while back, expressing unhappiness with authorities for severing parental rights and putting the kids up for adoption.
 
MsBetsy said:
I think they were also concerned about how things would look after they were all gone. That's why they stocked up on food before the drive off the cliff, and had fresh apples on the table.
They wanted the whole thing to look like a tragic accident. Imo
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I guess I disagree with the idea they primarily wanted it to look like a tragic accident.

I think they had always wanted to look like a model family (see all the posed Facebook photos and how they trotted out the kids for approval), and pretty-fying their refrigerator was more of the same. The vegetables and fruits look like a stage set. My fridge drawers have certainly never looked so Martha Stewart Living photo-ish!

Per early police reporting, there was abundant meat and alcohol in the kitchen (an early article showed photos), although the two styled themselves publicly as vegetarian/vegan and non-drinkers. This fact suggests a flagrant ongoing fraud to me, not so much a spur of the moment "tragic accident" look.

Their whole image was OPPOSITE to reality. It always had been.
 
Doghairrules said:
Does anyone else think it’s some kind of justice that Jennifer’s body fell out of the SUV as they were towing it up the cliff?

“Jennifer Hart also had many external injuries, he said. It’s impossible to know what injuries she sustained in the crash and what injuries occurred after her body fell out of the SUV onto the rocky coastline as authorities towed it up the cliff, Pizarro said.”

Hart family inquest: Sarah Hart had toxic level of Benadryl in system when fatal cliff plunge occurred
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bbm

I'm a bit surprised about that [bolded] statement. I thought that postmortem injuries could be distinguished from trauma suffered before death, especially if some time time had elapsed between death and later trauma. Aren't there physiological changes that occur almost immediately after death that would provide clues about whether the heart was pumping when the injuries took place?
IMO
 
K_Z said:
I wonder if 2-3 of them were going along with the suicide plan, and 3 weren't, so those 3 had to be persuaded to cooperate with chemicals? Or were the kids allowed to choose whether or not to take the drugs to dull their senses?
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I'm thinking a) the kids were used to doing whatever they were told because they were tortured if they didn't; and b) they were used to being drugged.

They might even have been told they were vitamins.
 
gcharlie said:
What's not known is whether the kids got pills, liquid form or some combination of the two on that fatal journey.
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Sickening that they could have put the pills into the mashed bananas that Jen bought. Maybe that's why they didn't need one for everyone? Or else Devonte was already dead? Maybe Hannah was dead?
 
The agony of this scene strikes me over and over. The kids must have overheard discussion from Jennifer and Sarah about whether or not to drive off a cliff, drown, and kill themselves, kids included. All day. Maybe for several days.
How awful they didn't feel they could jump out of the car. They had clearly been intimidated and abused for former attempts at escape.
*******
I'll bet Devonte wasn't in the car. They could have made him watch his dog being killed as punishment for exposing them, and next they killed him. Somewhere on the trip, maybe, but not in the car that went over the cliff.

I did have a thought that they might have abandoned him on a Forest Service road up the Rogue or Chetco or somewhere, but they're more evil than I imagined.

Another reason he might not have been there.... He might have told the other kids to jump out and run, if he had. He was the most likely one to do so. He had experienced goodness from people who weren't the Mrs. Harts, and he knew it was possible.
 
I suppose it's possible Hannah did jump out of the car, and that's why her body washed out to sea. She could have taken a younger one, too? They weren't all found exactly in the car. Maybe one that didn't have Benadryl in their system?

Or Hannah could have been shoved separately? She seems to have been the one most abused.

Sorry, my mind is jumping towards so many heinous possibilities that these moms could have perpetrated. Evil. Every briefing from LE, more evil.
 
I don't like this CNN headline at all. I don't think it captures the situation and may white-wash it quite a bit.

The caption on the CNN website front page is: "As she drove her family off a cliff, her wife looked up how much they'd suffer."

Puleeeze: she wasn't looking up how much they would suffer; she was looking up how much SHE would suffer.

If she had considered the kids' suffering for the 12 years since they had been adopted, they might have been safe and loved.

Jennifer Hart drove family off a cliff as her wife looked up how much they would suffer, a jury says - CNN
 
Looking at this with a different paradign...

The murder/suicide could have come about not because they were afraid of CPS coming after them, but because the women knew they could be in prison for life for murder? The murder of Devonte....? They did it and they knew they'd be found out? The kitchen scene was staged so all would look homey, and who would do that if they'd just murdered their son (or so they might have projected)?

These people are making me think of evil scenarios....
 
My next previous post goes along with the poster upthread ^^^^ who thought the home was staged the way it was so that everything looked "normal", and the cops wouldn't get suspicious. So, I'm reconsidering my objection to this idea.

I wonder what kind of search LE has done for Devonte? The moms could have messed with him any time on their trip or at home before they left.

And the Jen didn't buy enough bananas for the whole family. Maybe one was already gone?

All my speculation in these threads.... but I think the murder scene and the horror of the home may have eclipsed some other scenarios that may be even more evil to imagine.
 
drama_farmer said:
bbm

I'm a bit surprised about that [bolded] statement. I thought that postmortem injuries could be distinguished from trauma suffered before death, especially if some time time had elapsed between death and later trauma. Aren't there physiological changes that occur almost immediately after death that would provide clues about whether the heart was pumping when the injuries took place?
IMO
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I thought so too, but I just figured there was some reason they couldn’t be determined? Wish they would explain.
 
Did everyone see this? It's excellent and has a lot of information not available from elsewhere. Also, a lot of reports from folks who knew the Harts from a variety of contexts. I was mesmerized.

There's a whole episode on the fake portrayals on the photos and stuff Jen took.

Did you know, for instance, that Jen was an addicted gamer and she was playing for hours and hours every day?

‎Broken Harts on Apple Podcasts
 
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