CANADA Canada - Ben Tyner, 32, cowboy, horse returned w/o him, Merritt, British Columbia, 26 Jan 2019 - #2

[enelram]

Now I'm confused. <Yeah, doesn't take much> I thought finding the horse was what prompted the missing notification. But, if the people calling KR back 'knew' that Ben was already missing from Saturday night, when was LE actually informed about a missing Ben? It appears it was before Gunny was found, right? Or did I miss this in my following the storyline? Yep, it doesn't take much

also Kim R says when he called a couple cowboys about the horse,
they didn't call him back for 5 hours. Were the cowboys scurrying
together to get their stories straight? Were they innocently doing
their own investigation amongst workers at the ranch?
Many of these area cowboys know and socialize with each other.
and are like a local fraternity. And they move around from ranch to ranch so it's like they're all buddies. And I've noticed some
fathers and sons working cows as hired cowboys. In other words
local ties and bonds run very deep within the "cowboys".
My gut tells me the cowboys at NR probably all know exactly
what happened to Ben but cover for one or two of 'their own'.
moo

 

[enelram]

Quoting my post (sorry)

What the heck happened at NR for it to struggle so?
Do they even have equipment capable of doing their own hay? Did they find it necessary to liquidate equipment?
Bradner uses their own equipment, per article.

Was Ben hired specifically to bring NR out of the red?

What happened to NR? Poor Management imo. Seems like they
were just going farther and farther into mismanagement and
no one onboard knew how to stem the flow or no one on board
cared enough to make major changes.
Absentee ownership has it's own problems. On site mgt.
may not be good enough if the only wallet bleeding is owner's.
A good, honest manager looks out for bottom line regardless
of where owner is located. NR was bleeding a long time before
they cleaned house. Ben was brought in to stem the outflow
of profits and to build up ranch again. Maybe he decided not to renew the hay lease, never made good business sense to me to lease that out
when the ranch itself is a user of the product and a necessity.
NR had lost total control of the ranch through no eyes or
good hands on the ground. Ben was brought in to turn that around. Were a few locals making dishonest profits off the resources of NR?
I think they were. Were there really strays out there or were
the cows stolen? Maybe Ben was hell bent on searching all
the land around NR and was learning there were no strays but
that the cows were 'just gone'. If this had gone on for a long time,
he could have been seen as a 'troublemaker'. Stirring up
problems. Ben and owners of NR were outsiders
and did not
have the loyalty that more local people would be given.

 

[Trudie]

Remember we ALL had questions
early on in first thread about why no one at ranch was looking
for Ben or missed Ben.

I’d love to hear the explanation NR employee’s gave LE for not checking on Ben? Did they think he was at the feed yard , working from home, sleeping in, or what?

And I've noticed some
fathers and sons working cows as hired cowboys

Some imo, are itinerant teams, moving from ranch to ranch. We have some in my area. They make a lot more money, have more freedom, maintain their own homes/farms and so on. It is moo father-son teams are reputable & sought after. I think they can go in & get the job done. Itinerant teams save the ranch money, once the job is complete, they are gone. Jmo

 

[otto]

Jan 30th, is that old snow or fresh snow? I have no answer why the hoofprints of the horse couldn’t be tracked other than reasons stated. However tracks on a logging road, snow or not, would quickly become obliterated if logging trucks were active.

It's hard to say when the snow fell. According to the Merritt weather information, there was no snow, but we can see that there was snow at higher elevations. There looks to be enough snow to follow prints, but if SAR couldn't tell the difference between a horse print and a deer print, that adds to the problem. I don't understand why SAR said they had difficulty finding tracks because of other animal activity. Animals don't travel on roads, so 9 search teams should have been able to figure out whether the horse was in one spot the entire time, or whether it travelled.

 

[Trudie]

also Kim R says when he called a couple cowboys about the horse,
they didn't call him back for 5 hours. Were the cowboys scurrying
together to get their stories straight? Were they innocently doing
their own investigation amongst workers at the ranch?

Idk where the cowboys he called worked. My guess is a ranch closer to where Gunny was found.
As previously discussed, Livestock Identification Services identified Guuny. That would take time, imo.

And this from my link makes me wonder if NR was headed towards bankruptcy. Moo
From previous link:
We own the land and the irrigation equipment, and they’re going to be responsible for the operation and the variable cost of operating the farm,” he said.

 

[otto]

What happened to NR? Poor Management imo. Seems like they
were just going farther and farther into mismanagement and
no one onboard knew how to stem the flow or no one on board
cared enough to make major changes.
Absentee ownership has it's own problems. On site mgt.
may not be good enough if the only wallet bleeding is owner's.
A good, honest manager looks out for bottom line regardless
of where owner is located. NR was bleeding a long time before
they cleaned house. Ben was brought in to stem the outflow
of profits and to build up ranch again. Maybe he decided not to renew the hay lease, never made good business sense to me to lease that out
when the ranch itself is a user of the product and a necessity.
NR had lost total control of the ranch through no eyes or
good hands on the ground. Ben was brought in to turn that around. Were a few locals making dishonest profits off the resources of NR?
I think they were. Were there really strays out there or were
the cows stolen? Maybe Ben was hell bent on searching all
the land around NR and was learning there were no strays but
that the cows were 'just gone'. If this had gone on for a long time,
he could have been seen as a 'troublemaker'. Stirring up
problems. Ben and owners of NR were outsiders
and did not
have the loyalty that more local people would be given.

That is along the lines of what I've been thinking too. Something fishy has been going on at the ranch in relation to recreation use, hay production, logging and vanishing cattle. The most likely reason for a new ranch manager to be murdered is that he discovered something that threatened someone else. I've mentioned it before, but an internal audit is probably the only way to figure out who is behind it.

 

[enelram]

Otto, as I said before- the lack of tracks or tracking information never made good sense to me.
As I recall, around NR there was very little, if any, snow when Ben
went missing. It didn't snow any significant amount for several
days after he went missing. even without snow, horses leave
indentations in the soil and leaf matter. Heck I track my horses'
whereabout in my pastures all the time and I have ultra soft
sandy soil. Where the soil is firmer packed, they leave distinct
hoofprints and one can even tell which horse went where by
the hoofprints- horses have distinctly different hooves, size wise
and the depth of the prints are different also due to size and weight
of the horse.
Too bad the searchers didn't bring in a real tracker. KR could have been an asset if he is indeed a 'professional' tracker.
I know the good people on SAR teams try their best but they
are all volunteers and may not have skills for tracking.

 

[Trudie]

That is along the lines of what I've been thinking too. Something fishy has been going on at the ranch in relation to recreation use, hay production, logging and vanishing cattle. The most likely reason for a new ranch manager to be murdered is that he discovered something that threatened someone else. I've mentioned it before, but an internal audit is probably the only way to figure out who is behind it.

Hopefully an audit was first order of business. I would think Ben communicated his findings (if any) to the ranch owners or at the very least to their admin’ asst’. If so, there could be an email chain.

 

[Trudie]

Otto, as I said before- the lack of tracks or tracking information never made good sense to me.
As I recall, around NR there was very little, if any, snow when Ben
went missing. It didn't snow any significant amount for several
days after he went missing. even without snow, horses leave
indentations in the soil and leaf matter. Heck I track my horses'
whereabout in my pastures all the time and I have ultra soft
sandy soil. Where the soil is firmer packed, they leave distinct
hoofprints and one can even tell which horse went where by
the hoofprints- horses have distinctly different hooves, size wise
and the depth of the prints are different also due to size and weight
of the horse.
Too bad the searchers didn't bring in a real tracker. KR could have been an asset if he is indeed a 'professional' tracker.
I know the good people on SAR teams try their best but they
are all volunteers and may not have skills for tracking.

Exactly, we have horses-we know, they leave tracks!
KR offered & his help was refused.
It seems like it was a bit sloppy around NR, some melting had occurred.
Later, I will look for photo.

 

[enelram]

That is along the lines of what I've been thinking too. Something fishy has been going on at the ranch in relation to recreation use, hay production, logging and vanishing cattle. The most likely reason for a new ranch manager to be murdered is that he discovered something that threatened someone else. I've mentioned it before, but an internal audit is probably the only way to figure out who is behind it.

how about the theft of the NR work truck and expensive equipment shortly after the previous mgr. and employees were
terminated? $26,000 worth of stolen equipment. Who came in and found out about that? Who
reported that? Truck, tools stolen from Nicola Ranch - Merritt Herald
Also quite often when new mgt. comes in, they also clean house
and want their own hired employees who would have more
loyalty to new mgr. Maybe others were about to be terminated.

 

[Trudie]

That is along the lines of what I've been thinking too. Something fishy has been going on at the ranch in relation to recreation use, hay production, logging and vanishing cattle. The most likely reason for a new ranch manager to be murdered is that he discovered something that threatened someone else. I've mentioned it before, but an internal audit is probably the only way to figure out who is behind it.

I find it interesting once the patriarch passed away, his heirs almost immediately took extreme measures, like leasing the hay & reducing staff, and iirc, closing the gift shop. Perhaps a younger set of eyes looked at things in a new perspective.
Jmo

 

[zecats]

Now I'm confused. <Yeah, doesn't take much> I thought finding the horse was what prompted the missing notification. But, if the people calling KR back 'knew' that Ben was already missing from Saturday night, when was LE actually informed about a missing Ben? It appears it was before Gunny was found, right? Or did I miss this in my following the storyline? Yep, it doesn't take much

I’d say it’s similar to this. No one noticed Ben is missing. KR finds horse and calls it in. Search is on for owner. Horse brand identified as Ben’s and someone on ranch looks for Ben. Ben reported as owner of horse and can’t be found. Those who called KR back have knowledge when Ben last seen. Maybe were with him Saturday night. Imo. But KR gets the message back on whose horse , that he’s missing and when someone remembered seeing him. Ben is also reported missing to KE at this time. Jmo.

 

[Trudie]

how about the theft of the NR work truck and expensive equipment shortly after the previous mgr. and employees were
terminated? Who came in and found out about that? Who
reported that?
Also quite often when new mgt. comes in, they also clean house
and want their own hired employees who would have more
loyalty to new mgr. Maybe others were about to be terminated.

As GM I think Ben had free rein to build his own team.
I would hope he did, after relocating & taking on such a challenge.
Idk about where you live, but in my area farm theft is prevalent. Some farms have a hundred buildings/barns, as well as multiple entrances, some w/o gates. Most farms here have good security systems so thieves are nabbed fairly soon.
Do you remember how many currently work for NR?

 

[MistyWaters]

Otto, as I said before- the lack of tracks or tracking information never made good sense to me.
As I recall, around NR there was very little, if any, snow when Ben
went missing. It didn't snow any significant amount for several
days after he went missing. even without snow, horses leave
indentations in the soil and leaf matter. Heck I track my horses'
whereabout in my pastures all the time and I have ultra soft
sandy soil. Where the soil is firmer packed, they leave distinct
hoofprints and one can even tell which horse went where by
the hoofprints- horses have distinctly different hooves, size wise
and the depth of the prints are different also due to size and weight
of the horse.
Too bad the searchers didn't bring in a real tracker. KR could have been an asset if he is indeed a 'professional' tracker.
I know the good people on SAR teams try their best but they
are all volunteers and may not have skills for tracking.

I also don’t like to place blame on anyone for believing Ben had simply become separated from his horse and was somewhere in the back country waiting to be found. In hindsight it’s easy to be critical but at the time the urgency was a rescue operation, not a criminal investigation.

‘We’re coming for you’: Search on for ‘true American cowboy’ missing in B.C. backcountry

As for tracks around the ranch, if Ben rode frequently which I assume he did, would it have been possible to track which hoofprints were made, say 2 days prior as opposed to 3 or 5 days prior? I don’t know but I’m imagining the ranch, pasture, trails or corral area was rife with a lot of hoofprints just because we know him to have been an avid cowboy.

 

[zecats]

Mystery of missing Merritt cowboy deepens as search continues amid plunging temperatures

Emphasis no tracks from ranch.

Hunter Kim Robinson told Global News he found the horse about seven kilometres up a logging road, still fully-equipped.

READ MORE: Ben Tyner’s family joins desperate search for missing Merritt, B.C. cowboy

“He had one rein hanging there so I thought something wasn’t right, so I went to catch him,” Robinson said. “He was a nice-looking horse, he had good rigging on him, but he was a bit jumpy. Every time I’d go close to him he’d step on that rein and kind of spook himself.”

Robinson said he’d been active in the area for about a month, and hadn’t seen any tracks between the Nicola Ranch and where he found the horse.

 

[ktm44]

Quoting my post (sorry)

What the heck happened at NR for it to struggle so?
Do they even have equipment capable of doing their own hay? Did they find it necessary to liquidate equipment?
Bradner uses their own equipment, per article.

Was Ben hired specifically to bring NR out of the red?

They likely leased their equipment, which is what most big operations do. Some lease for years and others lease for a season but the big expense is irrigation equipment, fuel/power for irrigation, equipment repairs and manpower and if conditions aren't ideal, hay quality diminishes.

I do know someone who worked at NR and at that time, the ranch had about 1,000 head, which is certainly a good sized ranch but not huge so I wonder if there was a plan to increase their cattle herd.

 

[enelram]

As GM I think Ben had free rein to build his own team.
I would hope he did, after relocating & taking on such a challenge.
Idk about where you live, but in my area farm theft is prevalent. Some farms have a hundred buildings/barns, as well as multiple entrances, some w/o gates. Most farms here have good security systems so thieves are nabbed fairly soon.
Do you remember how many currently work for NR?

Well they laid off 9 plus the mgr. last year. In my mind that left
only 4 cowhands according to news reports. Plus at one time there
was a groundskeeper and office asst. But 4 cowboys is what I remember.

 

[zecats]

Otto, as I said before- the lack of tracks or tracking information never made good sense to me.
As I recall, around NR there was very little, if any, snow when Ben
went missing. It didn't snow any significant amount for several
days after he went missing. even without snow, horses leave
indentations in the soil and leaf matter. Heck I track my horses'
whereabout in my pastures all the time and I have ultra soft
sandy soil. Where the soil is firmer packed, they leave distinct
hoofprints and one can even tell which horse went where by
the hoofprints- horses have distinctly different hooves, size wise
and the depth of the prints are different also due to size and weight
of the horse.
Too bad the searchers didn't bring in a real tracker. KR could have been an asset if he is indeed a 'professional' tracker.
I know the good people on SAR teams try their best but they
are all volunteers and may not have skills for tracking.

Your post @enelram from thread one, #110
quotes cousin and admin of Ben’s Missing FB page as saying KR was allowed to participate in further searches.

And I do remember reading that he tracked the horse back to a herd of wild horses. That horse maybe hung out until she was chased off. Tracks lost there.

 

[cutter99]

Jan 30th, is that old snow or fresh snow? I have no answer why the hoofprints of the horse couldn’t be tracked other than reasons stated. However tracks on a logging road, snow or not, would quickly become obliterated if logging trucks were active.

Since the temperature got well above freezing the day Ben went missing, tracks or footprints in the snow may not be able to be seen very well due to melting and refreezing. Imprints in snow do not refreeze to what they were before melting occurred.

 

[enelram]

Your post @enelram from thread one, #110
quotes cousin and admin of Ben’s Missing FB page as saying KR was allowed to participate in further searches.

And I do remember reading that he tracked the horse back to a herd of wild horses. That horse maybe hung out until she was chased off. Tracks lost there.

Thanks, but wasn't that later on in the search and not right away
when he went missing? That's what I recall.