No fight. Why bother?
GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #72
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No fight. Why bother?
pocketaccent
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I'm sorry, I don't have the page numbers as I deleted those humongous files from my computer. No more rabbit holes I thought. I only have some important texts that I saved on my word pad.In what documents did you found these? and which page? There is so much documents.
Good find by the way!
pocketaccent
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Those texts shows what CW knew as of Aug 5 - Shanann was going to get the ball rolling in preparations for divorce. Sell the house and everything in it. CW told this to NK and she began to look for an apartment for him, imo. On Aug 6, 7, 8, he thought about the divorce, selling the house, child support payments (3 babies), having to move out of his home, his poor bank account balance, losing his stuff, etc. He didn't like it at all.
By Aug 9, his mind was made up. He wasn't going to deal with divorce, he would simply just get rid of them all. But he first had to cajole Shanann into believing everything will be ok in the end, in order to catch her off guard and she doesn't suspect his murder plan. He told her he will read the self help book she ordered, they will go on a getaway vacation, downsize, move to another location, start fresh again. Shanann believed it. Told her friends that everything is great again with CW. Contacted Ann. Then she saw the restaurant receipt on the night of August 11. By August 13, Shanann knew about the mistress and CW knew that she knew.
All JMO and IMO.
Annicade
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This is the best analysis I have read. Making my wheels turn. Great thoughts pocketaccent.
Poedelini
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I don't know, in my deep memory those text are from Shannan and her friend right? Forgive me if im wrong in that.
But i just think Shannan said that because she wanted some sort of reaction from Chris, i get the feeling she just wanted some clarity. Because from what i saw Chris was either just reacting short or he was just cold ignoring her. He didn't even got the balls to tell Shannan that he was having a affair. So he was sending so many signals and at the end the credit card at the restaurant. It must have been so confusing for Shannan. For me it was clear she didn't wanted a divorce and was so ready to fight for it. And if not she was okay to go on on her own with her kids. But not without fighting for it.
Good morning everybody. Happy Easter to you and your loved ones.
I can't stop thinking about this case even on a holiday.
Yes that beast must have had Shanann on a virtual roller coaster. IIRC in mid june she texted the ultrasound to him and he responded "love this little peanut (he or she) already". She posted this on Facebook and posted loving things about him. NK must have seen it. How could she say CWtold her they were in the last stages of divorce and she didn't know SW was pregnant. He went from hot to cold and back again. Really mean of him to treat her like that. You're right she was looking for clarity She had the welfare of 3 little children to think about and her own
I think one of her last texts was she was so glad to get home to CW and the girls
IIRC CW was never tested for drugs and they never took a urine sample. I think he might have been taking stimulants Thrive had nothing to do with it. He had a big wt loss and he only slept 3 hrs a night.
I can't stop thinking about this case even on a holiday.
Yes that beast must have had Shanann on a virtual roller coaster. IIRC in mid june she texted the ultrasound to him and he responded "love this little peanut (he or she) already". She posted this on Facebook and posted loving things about him. NK must have seen it. How could she say CWtold her they were in the last stages of divorce and she didn't know SW was pregnant. He went from hot to cold and back again. Really mean of him to treat her like that. You're right she was looking for clarity She had the welfare of 3 little children to think about and her own
I think one of her last texts was she was so glad to get home to CW and the girls
IIRC CW was never tested for drugs and they never took a urine sample. I think he might have been taking stimulants Thrive had nothing to do with it. He had a big wt loss and he only slept 3 hrs a night.
Poedelini
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Yes im now reading more text messages back and on thursday 2th of august she say's another night in silence. If i was being ignored by my spouse and i had a feeling there was something going on i also would try to shake him up by bringing up divorce. Friday the 3th of august she say's;
And saterday the 4th of august he was in ignore mod.
That sunday too. And then they drove 3 hours in silence and she drops the get a place bomb to him. I really think it is more out of frustration, and wanted a reaction out of him. It is unbearable to live with a spouse that is cold and ignoring to you and not clear why.
About the drugs he did had 2 patches from Thrive on him. Im not sure what kind of impact that had.
Oh and indeed Happy Easter!!
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This is off topic and none of my business but I took Shananns parents to be fairly young in their 50's
Gasp Frank R Sr is 78. He was 44 when Shanann was born, same age as my dad when I was born
He sure looks youthful. Sandra is 54
Gasp Frank R Sr is 78. He was 44 when Shanann was born, same age as my dad when I was born
He sure looks youthful. Sandra is 54
Colorado303
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Yes. This.
pocketaccent
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I agree she never really wanted a divorce and was desperate for a reaction from 'silent' CW. Maybe she told him to move out in anger and frustration. I guess we will never know what Shanann's true state of mind was after 6 weeks of suffering absolute cruelty by CW. She definitely was thinking about having to find a place to live for herself and her babies in a more affordable place, selling things at the house and taking the girls out of school to save money. She wrote those details down in a text to a friend, not to CW in anger.
But in my previous posts, I was trying to find out what CW's state of mind could have been when Shanann told him to find a place to live. I'm guessing CW didn't expect for Shanann to fight back to that extreme and it scared the bejeebers out of him. There was a mistress who helped to locate an apartment for him and all but everything costs money you know. He would eventually annihilate his family rather than go through a divorce.
DaisyKenny
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CW absolutely mistreated Shanann, but she was a normal loving mother whose babies meant the world to her. Yes, she wanted to save her marriage, like any normal caring parent, but she would have divorced him if that's what needed to be done.
Unlike her, money and free time meant more to him than his own children. I'm just a true crime newbie and not a "next level critical thinker", so I can't see how he had any excuse to kill anyone, let alone his own children.
Shanann would have made this a special Easter day for Bella, Cece and Nico, but she never had that chance because of the psychopath the next level critical thinkers are defending. JMO
Unlike her, money and free time meant more to him than his own children. I'm just a true crime newbie and not a "next level critical thinker", so I can't see how he had any excuse to kill anyone, let alone his own children.
Shanann would have made this a special Easter day for Bella, Cece and Nico, but she never had that chance because of the psychopath the next level critical thinkers are defending. JMO
Utsarah
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I've hesitated for a long time to even post this. The similarities between the events of how I met my late husband and how SW and CW met are so striking. I think that's why this case bothers me to my core.
I met my late husband after the death of my grandmother. She was like a mother to me. When I lost her I was deeply depressed. Around the same time a long term relationship ended and I left the home my partner and I had purchased together. I was feeling sad, alone and lost so much so quickly. SW was in a similar circumstance after a divorce and health issues.
When I met my late husband he was 36. He put me on a pedestal. He'd never had a serious romantic relationship before (sound familiar??). My husband had dated, but never introduced any girlfriends to his controlling mother (again..sound familiar??!!). He told me he never wanted to bring home a woman unless she knew she was "the one." In my weakened state I took it as a compliment.
We had a short courtship and married quickly. As soon as he had me, he changed. Everything about me he claimed to love, my intelligence, my career, my independent spirit he hated. He was a college professor and his public persona was so likable. EVERYBODY loved him and remarked about how lucky I was to have such a great man.
There were a couple of times the police were called because of his screaming at me in the home. Twice the neighbors called. After we'd moved into a house and I was 2 months pregnant he was drinking and began to scream at me. I tried to leave the home and he took my car keys and cell phone away from me. We had a home phone and I was able to get away from him long enough to call the police. They came and made him allow me to leave to go to family.
It went on like this for our entire marriage. Once my child was born I was focused on raising her. He constantly insulted my mothering skills behind closed doors while on social media he praised me. His mother was vindictive and controlling and there's just too much to even go into here with her.
I eventually just gave up and stayed with him. I came close to leaving but he went into end stage renal failure and I didn't think I could leave then. What kind of a person leaves someone when they're in renal failure? So I stayed. The abuse somewhat subsided, but he had begun to insult me in front of our child. He took no responsibility for the finances in our home. He acted like he couldn't do anything. (But remember he had advanced college degrees...he was no dummy). He died at home in front of me from a heart attack. I did and still do mourn him. It's extremely difficult to process because I did feel relief when he died. One of my best friends who knew about the abuse said, "Well, I guess the good Lord took care of him." I have worked through so much of this through a therapist.
I don't know SW. I have no clue what their home life was like in private. But if CW is the narcissist he seems to be I can say with certainty SW was probably emotionally and verbally abused. It's beyond obvious that she was if you read the texts to her friends right before her death. He had her so off guard she didn't know what to do. That's what narcissists do.
While I don't think my husband would have annihilated us had I left, my therapist does believe he could have become very violent because statistically that's when things escalate. Since he'd already tried to physically prevent me from leaving before, there was no reason to think he would not have gone nuts if I'd left with his child.
My point to all of this is I hope that at some point mental health professionals can learn enough about these types of people to help there be an awareness about what to look out for in a potential mate. I've been with a wonderful man for 4 years now, and I honestly still jump and cringe if he moves suddenly around me or raises his voice. But he actually genuinely loves me for me, never calls me names, never undermines me, or disrespects me. It's a new world for me.
I wish that SW had been able to just get away from CW with her babies. I honestly wish I didn't even know who they were because that would mean this horrendous tragedy would have never occurred. While there are so many "theories" on Youtube about the crime, nobody is talking about the cause of the crime. Nobody is talking about the different forms of domestic abuse. I think the best way we can honor those beautiful people is by trying to educate ourselves and our loved ones about domestic violence. Sometimes it isn't just physical, it is emotional and verbal. I suspect (and this is just my opinion) that behind closed doors SW suffered verbal and emotional abuse that ultimately turned into the worst type of physical abuse possible..death. My prayer is that we can learn from this to help prevent other people from being targets of abuse.
I met my late husband after the death of my grandmother. She was like a mother to me. When I lost her I was deeply depressed. Around the same time a long term relationship ended and I left the home my partner and I had purchased together. I was feeling sad, alone and lost so much so quickly. SW was in a similar circumstance after a divorce and health issues.
When I met my late husband he was 36. He put me on a pedestal. He'd never had a serious romantic relationship before (sound familiar??). My husband had dated, but never introduced any girlfriends to his controlling mother (again..sound familiar??!!). He told me he never wanted to bring home a woman unless she knew she was "the one." In my weakened state I took it as a compliment.
We had a short courtship and married quickly. As soon as he had me, he changed. Everything about me he claimed to love, my intelligence, my career, my independent spirit he hated. He was a college professor and his public persona was so likable. EVERYBODY loved him and remarked about how lucky I was to have such a great man.
There were a couple of times the police were called because of his screaming at me in the home. Twice the neighbors called. After we'd moved into a house and I was 2 months pregnant he was drinking and began to scream at me. I tried to leave the home and he took my car keys and cell phone away from me. We had a home phone and I was able to get away from him long enough to call the police. They came and made him allow me to leave to go to family.
It went on like this for our entire marriage. Once my child was born I was focused on raising her. He constantly insulted my mothering skills behind closed doors while on social media he praised me. His mother was vindictive and controlling and there's just too much to even go into here with her.
I eventually just gave up and stayed with him. I came close to leaving but he went into end stage renal failure and I didn't think I could leave then. What kind of a person leaves someone when they're in renal failure? So I stayed. The abuse somewhat subsided, but he had begun to insult me in front of our child. He took no responsibility for the finances in our home. He acted like he couldn't do anything. (But remember he had advanced college degrees...he was no dummy). He died at home in front of me from a heart attack. I did and still do mourn him. It's extremely difficult to process because I did feel relief when he died. One of my best friends who knew about the abuse said, "Well, I guess the good Lord took care of him." I have worked through so much of this through a therapist.
I don't know SW. I have no clue what their home life was like in private. But if CW is the narcissist he seems to be I can say with certainty SW was probably emotionally and verbally abused. It's beyond obvious that she was if you read the texts to her friends right before her death. He had her so off guard she didn't know what to do. That's what narcissists do.
While I don't think my husband would have annihilated us had I left, my therapist does believe he could have become very violent because statistically that's when things escalate. Since he'd already tried to physically prevent me from leaving before, there was no reason to think he would not have gone nuts if I'd left with his child.
My point to all of this is I hope that at some point mental health professionals can learn enough about these types of people to help there be an awareness about what to look out for in a potential mate. I've been with a wonderful man for 4 years now, and I honestly still jump and cringe if he moves suddenly around me or raises his voice. But he actually genuinely loves me for me, never calls me names, never undermines me, or disrespects me. It's a new world for me.
I wish that SW had been able to just get away from CW with her babies. I honestly wish I didn't even know who they were because that would mean this horrendous tragedy would have never occurred. While there are so many "theories" on Youtube about the crime, nobody is talking about the cause of the crime. Nobody is talking about the different forms of domestic abuse. I think the best way we can honor those beautiful people is by trying to educate ourselves and our loved ones about domestic violence. Sometimes it isn't just physical, it is emotional and verbal. I suspect (and this is just my opinion) that behind closed doors SW suffered verbal and emotional abuse that ultimately turned into the worst type of physical abuse possible..death. My prayer is that we can learn from this to help prevent other people from being targets of abuse.
Quinquin
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That part about the smaller gray truck parked in front of the Watt's home on the night/early morning in question also nags at me. I haven't heard much mentioned about that at all.
SaguaroSpirit
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I think that's Frank's dad, who would have been ShanAnn's grandfather. Frank Sr. is in his late 50's, I believe.
BeachSky
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Narsisstic abuse.
Emotional abuse.
Soul killing abuse.
The court only listens to you about “ abuse” if you have proof of physical abuse...I.E: X-rays, Dr reports, hospital stay, police reports, arrests,restraining order.
I did write the judge in my divorce case that the system needs to
recognize THIS animal. The covert abuse of a Narsisst spouse.
JMO
Utsarah
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Yes. I actually begged him to hit me on a few occasions so I’d have proof of how he treated me.
NuttMegg
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Me too. Why would that small truck pull out exactly at the time he walks out to his own truck. The neighbor said it was not hers.
NuttMegg
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Verbal abuse is so horrible. It makes the one being screamed at to hold it all in, walk on eggshells, makes it seem like it's her fault, makes her question all her own choices, her personality, her friends, everything about her life. Yet outsiders say "Oh you're marriage seems so great"
One of the worse aspects is that the screamer often does it only in front of others, where the person being screamed at simply cannot respond. It could be that the one who screams in public at a victim is like a dog who barks but doesn't bite (except inflicting deep emotional wounds), whereas the one who screams only in private may be more likely to go off the ledge and kill.
CW doesn't strike me as a screamer. As I mentioned before, (others have, too) he was more like a robot who was never allowed, or never learned to interact with others. I see this in children who grew up in violent households where the only way to escape being a target was to be the nice kid and make sure no one ever got mad at them. Not that these kids end up murdering, just that they go through life always trying to please, always the smile. But manipulation takes over since this person can never really express themselves if they sense the other one (anyone else) will not agree. (ie 4 years old, avoiding the fight in the basement while the older kids are beaten with a belt).
So here is CW, telling the demanding mistress that SW was on board with the divorce, while not telling SW anything at all except that he, poor guy, was unhappy, but even going along with a planned special weekend. So he is the one who did not scream in public at loved ones, did not scream in private at loved ones, no safety valve at all, although that is a pathetic safety valve for anyone. I think that is what Coder was alluding to, a "Chris Watts" murder, not following the typical buildup.
It sounds like you've created a good situation for yourself, I'm happy for you.
CW and SW apparently had screaming fights according to the neighbor, he told the police that right after CW left his home after they viewed the surveillance video. Also, the lady neighbor on the other side mentioned an argument they had out on the driveway one day. IMO, CW and SW both sound like any normal couple arguing, I don’t think SW would put up with any verbal abuse from CW.
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