Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #90

[rosesfromangels]

I totally think part of what was said, either by him or the girls, was cut off. There is something between "guys" and "down the hill"

First, I have to acknowledge the incredible work all the LE agencies are doing on this case. They are treating justice for Abby and Libby as if they were their own daughters; the emotion and passion is clear.
Thank you all LE for all you do. I think of them as Archangel Michael’s earthly warriors!

I am laser focused on the use of the word “Guys”. It is not a normal term to use when addressing two young girls. It’s notable, and a “signature” phrase for this Perp I am speculating.

Speaking of speculating, we aren’t going to have to wait much longer, I don’t think. And I just keep thinking about the school and all the people attached peripherally.

Regardless, as the kids say, “wait for it....”

Surrounding LE and the families of these beautiful little souls with love, and praying for their continued strength as this case is coming close to an arrest.

“Guys....”

Amateur speculation and opinion

 

[kirkassoc]

Here’s my take on the new audio. To me it sounds like he is positioning himself in an authoritative role. Like he “caught” the girls doing something they shouldn’t and used this as a ruse to lead them. Not implying the girls did anything wrong at all. But this audio to me sounds like...

Ok girls I caught you. I don’t want to do this but c’mon

Guys, down the hill.

It’s a reluctant sound like I have to do this, gotta turn you in.

I don’t think the girls did anything wrong. I think this creep acted as an authority figure in an effort to control them.

When I heard that word, "Guys," I could picture him coming up on them and saying, "Guys, you're not allowed on this bridge. It's hazardous. You'll have to go down the hill and around the other way to get back." Or something along those lines. To me, he sounds like he said something following the word, "Guys." Then we could hear him telling them to, "Down the hill."

Two different locations (yards apart perhaps) starting with the...Guys....and later after they were all off the bridge...his instructions where to go. There definitely sounds like there is time between those two sound bites and possibly more words we can't hear (muffled as they moved and Libby is guarding her phone). MOO.

 

[LunaticFringe]

I'm sure it's already been mentioned and I apologize if it has but is there a reason why the new composite released has two different ears?

 

[WestieMom]

His right eye is lazy. That's a pretty specific detail.

Did they say that about his eye? I missed that detail. It doesn’t appear “lazy” to me in the sketch.

 

[yrmfp]

This is going to sound scattered but..
Thinking about the " abandoned " car and them not describing it makes me think it was a public service car ( social work, LE, city employee etc..) and the word " abandoned " isnt as in LE located the car but instead is ' a car that was sitting unattended a few hours but later retrieved by the individual who parked it'

Like maybe a witness has now came forward about seeing a specific individual leave the car and that PC was more to " bait" additional witnesses. Like someone may think back and be like " you know there was the social workers car that was sitting in a weird place for awhile" ..does that make sense?
Instead of LE tainting tips by saying " anyone who saw this government marked car sitting unattended "
I really feel they know who this individual is however need just a LITTLE bit more glue

ETA: Just now reading through previous posts so I apologize if I'm parroting anyone

 

[they'll get you]

IMO everyone in this thread needs to remember there are TOS that MUST be adhered to. If we can keep to these rules, we will keep this thread open.

I would like to bring forth a post from the previous thread, and add some thoughts to it. This may, or may not, provide a worthy perspective. Or, I may just be feeding off the emotions from that presser.




ITA! and if I may?

7) This new drawing IS, "THE person responsible, for these two murders."

No explanation on why so definite. Was this another video capture? Was this Parabon, but they turned that into a drawing? What about THIS monster, discards the first BG? He stated, that the first sketch has "become secondary." IMO they look nothing alike on the surface. And the date on that sketch?! Did they (LE) really have this all along?!

8) "Guys, (Go) Down the Hill." It almost sounds like he 'knows' the girls. It makes me wonder if they still didn't understand the danger they were in at that time? I would think (IMO) we would hear one of the girls asking, "Why?" And be caught on the audio saying something like that. Perhaps they didn't question his (apparent) authority?

9) "The Shack." This was no random (IMO) mention of a specific movie. Or "A" book. He mentions "Evil, Death, and Eternity." There is something in there. I can smell it, I just cannot put my finger on it. Yet.

10) "The girls were brutally murdered."

No details, but reminds me of a long ago mention of the word 'nightmares.'



May the peace of the universe envelop the girls, Abby & Libby, their families, and their friends.

This is from Gray Hughes. He doesn't interrupt...too awful much

@ 23:00 “Please be patient with us, we are just beginning.” OMG!

From the YT vid from Gray Hughes.
I’m so unimpressed by the obvious damage control conference as it showed, IMO, such weakness.
I hope I’m wrong and they catch him tomorrow but the cops made a mistake with the identikit and they’ve thrown in a bit more useless information to cover their mistakes.
JMO.

 

[Elley Mae]

Agree. I don’t think they have a clue who it is to be honest.

Me neither.

About the new sketch, what was/is the reason for holding it back for 2 years.?

 

[AllGrace]

Haven't been on here in a while - Mollie Tibbets and the Watts family sort of did me in for a while, along with a death in the family.

The following are MOO, IMHO....

1 - Guys means NOTHING. I live in the midwest and call my daughter and her friends guys ALL. THE. TIME. It is regional.

2 - I believe the officer calling the suspect a 'coward' was a taunt.

3 - The recording really sounds to me like it has a *slight* accent? Maybe Hispanic? I don't think the sketch discounts that.

4 - There HAS to be more audio if she was recording. They are withholding it for a reason.

5 - The family has been told more. Frequently, that is the case. Asking media to leave them alone helps ensure they don't accidentally leak anything.

6 - LE knows who it is, or has a really good idea. Just need a final piece to have an airtight case.

 

[JnRyan]

That LE states the killer lives in the Delphi area OR lived there at one time or regularly visits or visited the area is something I've long suspected. With as many as 150-200 personnel involved in the original task force and thousands of tips and still no arrest I've tended to believe he is familiar with the area but doesn't live there. I believe he may have lived there at one time, say, elementary school, and left the area or he had relatives in the area he would visit. He knew about the trail and the bridge. He knew about the abandoned building within walking distance of the trailhead.

Then again, I tended to believe he went on the trail not necessarily intending to do what he did. That maybe something the girls said or did caused him to go back to his car and retrieve a gun and possibly other items. Now with the fact that he parked AWAY from the trailhead it appears he wanted to avoid connection with the trail. That would seem to indicate he knew ahead of time what he was going to do. This was premeditated from the beginning. I just wonder if knew Abigail and Liberty were going to be there and targeted them. Did they stop somewhere that morning or the day before and express an interest in going to the trail in a store or somewhere else? Or did he go there looking for a crime of opportunity? If it was the second, it would have been hit or miss and there was a possibility he would not find a good target. So had he been there before and walked away without killing? If so, he has likely been seen on the trail in the past - maybe over the Christmas break. Maybe he picked that day to search for a target because he heard school was out and therefore his chances were greater. I wonder where he was when the girls were dropped off - was he sitting in his car watching?

 

[enelram]

Because I've heard similar pc's over the years when LE has come
to the end of the current evidence to investigate. I heard, if I
read between the lines, that LE is appealing to both the perp
and his friends or family to turn in a tip to invigorate the
stalled investigation.

I doubt that will happen. Family and friends are usually in
denial and most likely won't come forward.

Question- Was this a crime of opportunity or did perp KNOW
the girls would be on the trail?

If pre-planned, was any relative or friend of family privy to
girls' plans. How about a neighbor who followed the girls
that day.

What type activities took place on those trails? Drugs? Pot
smoking? Target practice? Who were regulars on the trails?

We may need to wait for perp to be arrested on other charges.
Do we know if any DNA was found?
Sadly, it doesn't sound like this case is moving forward at this
point. IMO, LE needs a major break in the case.

 

[sun16]

I remain very stuck on the issue of the phone. The BG either didn’t see he was being filmed/recorded. Or he didn’t care. But who wouldn’t care? A BG wouldn’t want any evidence out there that could get him caught. Even if he hadn’t seen either of the girls with a phone, it’s 2017, and everyone knows that everyone has a phone on them at all times. Especially teens. And they were on a trail.
How in the world did the BG not search for, take and destroy the phone? Even if he didn’t know it had been used on the track. Because this phone will likely end up being what gets him caught. Extremely stupid mistake. I wonder how he feels now about seeing his photo and video on TV.

 

[JnRyan]

Did Abby and Libby normally ride a school bus to school?

I'm trying to think of scenarios where BG could have overheard their plans for the day off, and would have had that day off as well. Bus driver? Janitor?

Good point. I wonder about that aspect. Was the visit to the trail a spur of the moment thing that day or something they looked forward to a few days prior?

 

[MsBetsy]

Here are my thoughts, my opinions, for what they’re worth:

1. Mention of the movie The Shack was not a reference to a real shack. It was a plea to BG’s conscious. I’ve not watched the movie (yet) but my understanding is that it is about God’s presence with the victim, victim’s family & the killer; salvation & forgiveness. Carter was telling BG that even though he did this horrendous act, he can be forgiven & that the girls are not hurting anymore. Urging BG to come forward.

2. There is no doubt in my mind the purpose of this PC was to communicate directly with BG. The additional audio & video, as well as the sketch, could be considered secondary to the true purpose. Every single word was deliberate & direct. Is it possible that BG has communicated with law enforcement & this was the response? Would he wait so long to do so?

3. I believe that the use of “guys” to address the girls is simply part of BG’s everyday vocabulary. I don’t perceive any significance it’s use.

4. I’m not sure what to make of Carter’s plea for patience because they’re just beginning/just getting started (sorry, I don’t remember his exact quote). Thoughts?

*as always, jmo

Yes, I also believe the reference to The Shack was an appeal to the killer's conscience.
Right before he mentions the movie he says something about how we ask ourselves what makes people do terrible things. Then he states that he believes the killer still has a bit of a conscience.
In the movie, the main character has lost touch with God. He suffered abuse as a child and then lived in grief as a father after losing his daughter to a brutal murder.
The movie sends a message to those who are not close to God that He is approachable and involved despite the evil in the world.
It is his journey of redemption. He learns that bad things happen to good people, and good things can come from tragedy. Other themes are that forgiveness gives us freedom, as well as the importance of relinquishing all control to God.

Since he talks about the killer feeling powerful maybe he is sending the message that it is not him, but a higher being who is in power.
He is sending a clear message that they are close to finding him, he asks him how his loved ones will feel when they find out what he did to these innocent children.
He is talking about guilt and shame, but also about forgiveness.
In other words the clock is ticking, it won't be long before they come for him. Soon everyone will know the horror of what he did, but there still is a chance for forgiveness. Jmo

 

[Mandie K]

Good Morning Guys. Correct me if I am wrong but, I remember when this first happened. For some reason I remember them not suspecting fowl play at first. I would think that if it was a brutal murder that would have been determined first thing at the crime scene. (FYI any murder of little girls is brutal to me) Am I thinking the wrong information? I thought it wasn't until after the autopsy they determined they were murdered. If that was the case maybe a weapon wasn't used to kill them maybe BG wasn't carrying anything. This is just my brain going a mile a minute over this. I have not forgot about these little girls since day one and now my brain is in a whirlwind. I hope what I am trying to say came out the right way.

 

[MuddyTires]

I am laser focused on the use of the word “Guys”. It is not a normal term to use when addressing two young girls.

Maybe not normal for you, but normal for plenty of other people.

"Guys" is used all the time in referring to two or more girls. I hear it all the time.

People have even written about it:

Guys

Could Johnson possibly comment on the near-universal American use of "guys" to refer to mixed or even exclusively female groups. Is this done elsewhere? Is it new? Am I right in thinking it is the only noun in English whose gender depends on whether it is singular or plural?

Can "Guys" Refer to Women and Girls?

I'm a rural midwesterner (Indiana) from a lower working class background, and I grew up with the generic "you guys."

Why We Should Stop Calling Women 'Guys' | HuffPost

Around five years ago, it struck me that the term ‘guys’ had become commonplace in referring to both men and women. The moment it hit me, I thought, “women aren’t guys! How has it come to be that girls and women are constantly called ‘guys’?” From that moment on, I began to feel uncomfortable when mixed gender groups were all referred to as ‘guys.’ Furthermore, I began to notice that women were calling each other ‘guys’ as well.

 

[Tealgrove]

I go back to who knew they would be there that day at that time?

A friend of the family, friend of sibling who knew that someone had to go pick them up at a certain time? Who knew they would be there?

This would really bring this whole thing very close to the family.

 

[they'll get you]

This is going to sound scattered but..
Thinking about the " abandoned " car and them not describing it makes me think it was a public service car ( social work, LE, city employee etc..) and the word " abandoned " isnt as in LE located the car but instead is ' a car that was sitting unattended a few hours but later retrieved by the individual who parked it'

Like maybe a witness has now came forward about seeing a specific individual leave the car and that PC was more to " bait" additional witnesses. Like someone may think back and be like " you know there was the social workers car that was sitting in a weird place for awhile" ..does that make sense?
Instead of LE tainting tips by saying " anyone who saw this government marked car sitting unattended "
I really feel they know who this individual is however need just a LITTLE bit more glue

ETA: Just now reading through previous posts so I apologize if I'm parroting anyone

Your post reminded me of a janitor who had previously approached young students but then murdered a school teacher in NSW Australia and he had use of the school truck.
Could BG have known about the bridge trek and had the school truck that looked abandoned.

GUILTY - Australia - Stephanie Scott, 26, Leeton, NSW, 5 April 2015 - #3

 

[AllGrace]

"Question- Was this a crime of opportunity or did perp KNOW
the girls would be on the trail?

If pre-planned, was any relative or friend of family privy to
girls' plans. How about a neighbor who followed the girls
that day. "

IMHO he knew the girls. Were all male relatives cleared? I found it interesting LE kept saying "family", why not "families" plural? Is that because the perp is in one of the families? Other possibility to me is school employee - teacher, janitor, bus driver.

 

[chihuahua]

Just quick post from my phone.
In reviewing the video clip, I believe the killer may have been wearing jeans that were too big for him. Also he seemed to have a brownish hoodie on under the other coat.
So he appeared larger on the video than he really is.
What he had under his coat is probably the weapon he used. However we only know the girls were murdered, not how.
From following cases of young victims where there are more than 1 killed, it usually takes a gun or knife to get them controllable.
Then they could've been tied up.
We don't know they were victims of sexual attack.
BG will probably not flinch at all, and may kill again.
I'm not convinced this was his first one.
Coda. Back to day 1.
Chi

 

[Elley Mae]

Hey guys, Maryland resident here. The word “guys” is common to use in these parts as well.