Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #95

[Charlot123]

I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised.

Arson too, which can (strangely) have a sexual component.

These guys invariably build up to murder in some way or another.

Arson is pretty autistic behavior, perhaps a certain cut between stimming and OCD, a way to reduce overload (this is why “controlled fire- setting” is not a good idea!).

But come to think of it, some serial killers have a history of bedwetting, firesetting and cruelty to animals.

Nero comes to mind...

 

[Cherokee]

Sigh.

Who the H is BG?!
(It’s “like” my number one question in life)

Bridge Guy = perp

 

[moonlessnight]

I would say that whether or not there was an actual sexual assault, this crime was sexually motivated. Even in the loose definition of power and control being a sexual motivation. If the suspect really is in his early 20's, that makes it even more sexually motivated. Not specific to what was done during the crime, but the urges that led to the crime.

Help, moderators? I know it has been mentioned (and put on public maps) that some of the girls' clothing was found in the creek by searchers. Is it allowed to say what pieces of clothing?

In addition, the investigator at the recent presser became very emotional when talking to the perp about how he "left the girls in those woods" was not what they were experiencing now. To several profilers, the investigator was probably alluding to the bodies being posed, and when that happens, it is done to fulfill the perp's own sick sexual fantasy.

 

[margarita25]

Bridge Guy = perp

Thanks, Cherokee. That seems to happen every time I ask that question.

I mean, Whoooooo is he.

 

[Cherokee]

I would like to see the source regarding the “kill pack” and weapon that he brought with him. Thanks.

Many have already speculated that some sort of kill pack/weapon/rope/etc. was carried under the bulkiness of BG's coat. After listening to several profilers in the past and even more of them currently, they mention the use of kill packs used by premeditated killers, and so instead of saying all the stuff under BG's coat, I thought it made more sense to call it a kill pack because basically, that's probably what it was.

 

[crhedBngr]

It is the sexual assault part of this killing that speaks to the planning of it. The perp had a sexual fantasy he wanted to act out and accomplish. That does not happen in response to something bad happening earlier in the week. It comes from a depraved mind that becomes obsessed with getting gratification through the fantasy. The perp knew the area well, was adept at getting around in the location, and knew the egress from there without getting caught.

This killing was not an accident. Nothing the girls did sparked anything. They were in the wrong place at the wrong time. The perp would have killed whoever came along when the conditions were right to fulfill his plan.

RBBM

IIRC, we don't know if either one (or both) of the girls was sexually assaulted. If I am incorrect in this assumption, please let me know.

 

[msnorabarnacle]

Help, moderators? I know it has been mentioned (and put on public maps) that some of the girls' clothing was found in the creek by searchers. Is it allowed to say what pieces of clothing?

In addition, the investigator at the recent presser became very emotional when talking to the perp about how he "left the girls in those woods" was not what they were experiencing now. To several profilers, the investigator was probably alluding to the bodies being posed, and when that happens, it is done to fulfill the perp's own sick sexual fantasy.

You don't need the moderator's help-- I'm quite familiar with the gruesome facts of the case and what you're referring to. All that I'm implying is that you're jumping to conclusions that this was premeditated AND sexually motivated with really no factual grounds. What's *implied* isn't necessarily the case. Any links to the profilers you're mention would also be greatly appreciated!

 

[margarita25]

Many have already speculate that some sort of kill pack/weapon/rope/etc. was carried under the bulkiness of BG's coat. After listening to several profilers in the past and even more of them currently, they mention the use of kill packs used by premeditated killers, and so instead of saying all the stuff under BG's coat, I thought it made more sense to call it a kill pack because basically, that's probably what it was.

We call it a “kill kit”, actually.

ETA: And do I believe he had one? You betcha. Moo.

ETA2: @Jabarn, you mentioned the potential “ligature” earlier. I have isolated IMO the exact type of rope I think he used. I have posted examples in prior threads.

I also have no doubt IMO that is NO DOUBT a Firearm on his right side, likely body holster.

 

[Charlot123]

Okay... Maybe he intimately knew the area because he grew up exploring it, which is where he knew where he could take them to a secluded spot. Perhaps he had the weapons in his vehicle because he's a hunter. Maybe he decided to go on a walk on the trail because something bad happened to him earlier that day, week, or month. Perhaps he ran into the girls while heading back (NE) from the trail, and it sparked something in him that lead to him to committing an awful act of violence. Perhaps his car wasn't parked where this newfound vehicle of interest is parked. I don't think we can speak with so much certainty...

Was anyone in Delphi ever seen using this trail and bridge for training?

I am still bothered between strange gait not matching the speed at which the guy walks. He knows the bridge, every bar! Was anyone ever using this trail and bridge to train for steeplechase? Running with barriers? Is there anyone who is interested in these sports in Delphi?

 

[Cherokee]

You don't need the moderator's help-- I'm quite familiar with the gruesome facts of the case and what you're referring to. All that I'm implying is that you're jumping to conclusions that this was premeditated AND sexually motivated with really no factual grounds. What's *implied* isn't necessarily the case. Any links to the profilers you're mention would also be greatly appreciated!

Jim Clemente is the latest one. He was quoted on this thread, graciously provided by ChooChooBella in her summary of a the podcast Best Case, Worst Case. Everything he (and the other profilers said) confirmed what I was thinking about these murders.

 

[Tillicum]

I said I was going to read The Shack again to see if I could find anything that LE might be trying to communicate to BG. I haven't seen the movie but usually they leave out quite a bit that's in the book. Anyhow IDK if Carter brought it up for a significant reason or not but if he did I may have found it. It was towards the end of the book and now I can't keep my eyes open. I'm kinda proud of myself for getting through the whole thing without having any panic attacks.

 

[Cherokee]

We call it a “kill kit”, actually.

Yes, a kill kit. I think I wrote kill pack thinking of the fanny pack and possibly small backpack in the bulky front of BG's jacket.

 

[margarita25]

@MassGuy , I just had a crazy thought as to level of organization re: this offender. We both know this is neither of our first rodeos and we both analyze things very carefully including LE and their approaches and responses. With that being said, how about if you give him a little MORE credit, and I give him a little LESS credit and we might just have a match :wink:

 

[margarita25]

Delete

 

[SouthernMom]

One thing the latest presser has caused me to rethink is the possibility of the Delphi murders being connected to the Evansdale murders.
The statement that the Delphi killer is most likely a local or previous local of Delphi doesn’t rule out a connection but it does make it less likely, IMHO.

 

[Cherokee]

You don't need the moderator's help-- I'm quite familiar with the gruesome facts of the case and what you're referring to. All that I'm implying is that you're jumping to conclusions that this was premeditated AND sexually motivated with really no factual grounds. What's *implied* isn't necessarily the case. Any links to the profilers you're mention would also be greatly appreciated!

The late Robert Ressler (rest in peace) was another one who espoused this theory in regards to similar cases driven by sick fantasies and the need for control and power (which was mentioned in the most recent presser).

I think it a bit harsh for you to say I'm "jumping to conclusions that this was premeditated AND sexually motiated with really no factual grounds."

I am not jumping to conclusions but merely presenting the known facts and what they lead to according to eminent profilers and good common sense. It is extremely rare for a man in this situation to just want to kill someone in broad daylight, then leave .... well, that's done and dusted. There had to be a reason for the perp to do what he did, and the motive was sexual assault and then killing.

One of the reasons LE is keeping details of the girls' deaths and manner in which they were found to themselves shows there are psycho-sexual tones to their murders. Anytime a killer strips the clothing from their victim and leaves them naked or half-naked, it implies sexual assault if not sexual debasement.

 

[MistyWaters]

Help, moderators? I know it has been mentioned (and put on public maps) that some of the girls' clothing was found in the creek by searchers. Is it allowed to say what pieces of clothing?

In addition, the investigator at the recent presser became very emotional when talking to the perp about how he "left the girls in those woods" was not what they were experiencing now. To several profilers, the investigator was probably alluding to the bodies being posed, and when that happens, it is done to fulfill the perp's own sick sexual fantasy.

Even if clothing was found, it was never confirmed to belonged to the girls. Usually parks and trails have at least an annual cleanup and typically found items include various items of clothing especially near water. I have no idea why people don’t put all their clothes back on if they’ve went swimming or whatever, just that they don’t. I’d be interested in knowing when the last time the rivers edge was cleaned up.

I think the reference to leaving them and what they were experiencing now referred to death and heaven.

 

[MassGuy]

One thing the latest presser has caused me to rethink is the possibility of the Delphi murders being connected to the Evansdale murders.
The statement that the Delphi killer is most likely a local or previous local of Delphi doesn’t rule out a connection but it does make it less likely, IMHO.

Yeah. In addition to that, most serial killers start close to home, and then venture out.

It would be strange to start hundreds of miles away.

 

[msnorabarnacle]

The late Robert Ressler (rest in peace) was another one who espoused this theory in regards to similar cases driven by sick fantasies and the need for control and power (which was mentioned in the most recent presser).

I think it a bit harsh for you to say you think I'm "jumping to conclusions that this was premeditated AND sexually motiated with really no factual grounds."

I am not jumping to conclusions but merely presenting the known facts and what the lead to according to eminent profilers and good common sense. It is extremely rare for a man in this situation to just want to kill someone in broad daylight, then leave, well, that's done and dusted. There had to be a reason for the perp to do what he did, and the motive was sexual assault and then killing. One of the reasons LE is keeping details of the girls' deaths and manner in which they were found show there are psycho-sexual tones to their murders. Anytime a killer strips the clothing from their victim and leaves them naked or half-naked, it implies sexual assault if not sexual debasement.

Cherokee, you can't confirm anything. He very well could've acted out on some fit of rage and that's what BG got off on: the act of killing. You are speaking in assertions:"the motive was sexual assault" -- and I don't think that various profilers and your opinions make that true. Perhaps the evidence of clothing you're alluding to aren't even relevant because virtually nothing has been confirmed!

 

[MistyWaters]

Was anyone in Delphi ever seen using this trail and bridge for training?

I am still bothered between strange gait not matching the speed at which the guy walks. He knows the bridge, every bar! Was anyone ever using this trail and bridge to train for steeplechase? Running with barriers? Is there anyone who is interested in these sports in Delphi?

The video is a very brief clip of two steps, played back to back, over and over. Notice the tree in the background, it does not become distant as the man lurches along. It’s a bit deceptive because it only appears he’s walking at a consistent pace.