Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #101

[Boxer]

I do. I also think that the "hitchhiker" whom they asked about in the beginning has been on their radar from the start. As I have said before (and please excuse me for sounding like a broken record), I firmly believe that new evidence has come to light and that has caused the shift in LE's investigative strategy.

IMO, the "hitchhiker" and vehicle were brought to LE's attention in the first few days of the investigation. Up until recently, these items had been secondary. They were open items, but there was no pressing need to get to the bottom of them. However, I believe that the the new evidence that has come into LE's possession now makes LE certain that BG drove that car (or at least escaped via it). I would not be shocked if we come to find out that the newly released sketch is actually of the hitchhiker that LE asked about in the first press conferences.

And thinking of the girls' families on Mother's Day.

Interesting.
Perhaps the car will be found with the owner some miles from Delphi waiting to be found in a river.

 

[mtnlites]

I have a hard time wrapping my mind around there being no screams heard or anything of that nature. Being broad daylight....and in a familiar area where they knew that other people frequent I don't think they truly believed this man would do what he was about to do. Fortunately with the video/audio recovered by LE. I don't think this is one of the unanswered questions for LE. The big question that they are needing to answer is not "Where, How, When...but Who and Why"

When my mother and I were approached by a man with a gun who tried to abduct both of us, neither one of us screamed-and we'd both had plenty of self-defense classes. We knew what we were "supposed" to do, but in THAT moment, we both panicked. It happened so quickly, and was such a surprise, that we froze in fear. There was no screaming on our part. No scuffle. Nothing more than surprised "ohs". And yes, we knew that you should never let someone take you from Point A to Point B, but all that logic flew out the window when we felt that our lives were about to end.And we were both adults at the time.

 

[Jdart14]

When my mother and I were approached by a man with a gun who tried to abduct both of us, neither one of us screamed-and we'd both had plenty of self-defense classes. We knew what we were "supposed" to do, but in THAT moment, we both panicked. It happened so quickly, and was such a surprise, that we froze in fear. There was no screaming on our part. No scuffle. Nothing more than surprised "ohs". And yes, we knew that you should never let someone take you from Point A to Point B, but all that logic flew out the window when we felt that our lives were about to end.And we were both adults at the time.

excellent point. And thank you for sharing your experience. Thank God you're ok. There is no playbook for things like that and you're right there is no way to know exactly how your mind and body will react in a situation like that.

 

[Cutiekitty]

My point is that recognizing someone isn't the only reason why they may not have fought back or "rebelled." A weapon and threat could have also been used. The whole "they went 'down the hill' with him without fighting back or rebelling so they must have known their murderer" is not a solid argument IMO.

As @gitana1 said (after me): Full grown women often quietly submit to their abductors out of fear. Why would we expect two kids to do something different?

There absolutely could’ve been a weapon of some sort. Not saying there wasn’t. Just saying the poster wasn’t being accusatory or bashing and they had a valid point. I’ve kind of had the same vibe myself tbh, but I’m open minded to other possible scenarios.

 

[Charlot123]

I have a hard time wrapping my mind around there being no screams heard or anything of that nature. Being broad daylight....and in a familiar area where they knew that other people frequent I don't think they truly believed this man would do what he was about to do. Fortunately with the video/audio recovered by LE. I don't think this is one of the unanswered questions for LE. The big question that they are needing to answer is not "Where, How, When...but Who and Why"

Yes, the girls did everything possible to nail him. Kudos to Abby and Libby!

I think (hope) their question is “how to nail him?”

 

[Cutiekitty]

Oh, we absolutely need to discuss what they should have done to stay alive! For the future kids. There are enough perps around, and while the girls can not be returned back, maybe someone can be saved if we discuss different scenarios? Kids have fire drills, and active shooters drills, why not discuss this situation, “danger from a rapist/serial killer”?

I think the discussion definitely should be had with kids, but maybe not on here. Hashing out what they should’ve done doesn’t change the outcome and would actually lead to victim bashing.

 

[gitana1]

Here is another example.

A very famous song by Jacques Brel

What is interesting, it is the recording made at the time when no one cared to wipe the sweat off the artist’s face, when dentistry work was not commonplace, and when the voices were not augmented. Brel has very strong voice but it sounds very raspy, too.

Recent HD reformatting removed the raspiness from his voice, btw. I wonder if it can be done with the recording of BG’s voice? And hear how he sounds then?

Another unrelated theory of mine - if the perp is truly from Delphi environs, he probably looks like 50% of men there. If your ancestors lived in the town for 200 years, you end up being at least fourth cousin to everyone there, and maybe, third. It is not inbreeding, merely, natural course of events.

I don't know. As much as I love Jaques Brel, I don't think his voice or any other husky French-language-singer's voice probably has much to do with this case.

Jaques Brel was a smoker with a deep enough voice. But you don't have to smoke, be a Belgian singer, have the flu or be older to have a voice like BG's, IMO. I posted a link a couple weeks ago to a news article video showing two searchers the night the girls went missing, both of whom were young and one of whom had a voice quite similar to BG. Young people can indeed sound like that.

I just really don't think the FBI released audio of BG's voice, asking the public to ID him from the voice, with the intent to have us use software or something to strip out the huskiness so we can hear what he "really" sounded like, you know what I mean?

I think they released what they think he really sounds like. We probably aren't meant to do gymnastics in order to make the voice fit our possibly preconceived notions of who the suspect may be, IMO.

To me, the FBI needs someone who recognizes this man to come forward. They don't know who he is but they feel they're getting close. They aren't trying to scare someone whose identity they already know, IMO.

 

[Charlot123]

Great post!

Historically, Delphi was an agricultural and livestock community. The farmers would have relied on each other for help as well as friendship.

Over the years, the citizens would have known one another's families.

Culture and dynamics of this community, as others have, would have changed and evolved into a different picture.

Many would have more contact with further communities for school or work and might not even know who lives three houses down the street.

@zencompass, do you know who founded Delphi? I tried to find out. Statistically, Germans or Anglo-Saxons are the highest possibility, however, nearby Lafayette was originally ethnically French. Could the founders of Delphi be Northern French, or Flemish, or Dutch?

What I mean, redheads or certain looks might be more prevalent in their descendants. We think the perp looks unusual, and surely it would be, for my part of the US, where I believe there was more mixture with Native Americans, but maybe, not so much for Delphi?

 

[Mind your biscuits]

Please could someone post the tv clip of the volunteers milling around in the background. Tried to find it on thread one but no luck so far. Tia.

 

[Boxer]

When my mother and I were approached by a man with a gun who tried to abduct both of us, neither one of us screamed-and we'd both had plenty of self-defense classes. We knew what we were "supposed" to do, but in THAT moment, we both panicked. It happened so quickly, and was such a surprise, that we froze in fear. There was no screaming on our part. No scuffle. Nothing more than surprised "ohs". And yes, we knew that you should never let someone take you from Point A to Point B, but all that logic flew out the window when we felt that our lives were about to end.And we were both adults at the time.

Absolutely agree.
Its all about how close you are to the handgun.

Yes, the girls did everything possible to nail him. Kudos to Abby and Libby!

I think (hope) their question is “how to nail him?”

MOO I think they are down to just who.
I think they have been there for a while.
However a new age range opens up a huge new group of suspects to process.

 

[Charlot123]

I don't know. As much as I love Jaques Brel, I don't think his voice or any other husky French-language-singer's voice probably has much to do with this case.

Jaques Brel was a smoker with a deep enough voice. But you don't have to smoke, be a Belgian singer, have the flu or be older to have a voice like BG's, IMO. I posted a link a couple weeks ago to a news article video showing two searchers the night the girls went missing, both of whom were young and one of whom had a voice quite similar to BG. Young people can indeed sound like that.

I just really don't think the FBI released audio of BG's voice, asking the public to ID him from the voice, with the intent to have us use software or something to strip out the huskiness so we can hear what he "really" sounded like, you know what I mean?

I think they released what they think he really sounds like. We probably aren't meant to do gymnastics in order to make the voice fit our possibly preconceived notions of who the suspect may be, IMO.

To me, the FBI needs someone who recognizes this man to come forward. They don't know who he is but they feel they're getting close. They aren't trying to scare someone whose identity they already know, IMO.

@gitana1, thank you, and it makes total sense and logic, coming from you.

Why then all emotional calisthenics from Carter? “Hiding in plain view”, “seeing how he changed”, “the Shack”? It surely sounded like they knew, and were throwing hints.

If it is that simple, “we think we are close, we think he is local, but we simply need more witnesses before we can identify him”, why making it sound like “Clue”?

 

[Boxer]

@gitana1, thank you, and it makes total sense and logic, coming from you.

Why then all emotional calisthenics from Carter? “Hiding in plain view”, “seeing how he changed”, “the Shack”? It surely sounded like they knew, and were throwing hints.

If it is that simple, “we think we are close, we think he is local, but we simply need more witnesses because we can not identify him”, why making it sound like “Clue”?

MOO at this point looking for new witnesses sounds incredibly difficult. If there are anymore.

 

[Charlot123]

MOO at this point looking for new witnesses sounds incredibly difficult. If there are anymore.

Yep. Sad. Maybe this is what it really comes up to, a tiny dying out town, a decrepit bridge, and too few people attracted by it, except for teenagers who don’t have many other outlets for their activity, and a psychopath?

 

[IQuestion]

BBM I agree that feeling won't leave me either. The girls knew the man enough to cooperate because if they didn't we would have heard them rebelling "going down the hill" MOO

WGRAM.... bbm. I love reading different perspectives. So I was thinking about "heard them rebelling"....I think it has been mentioned many times (IIRC) a person said they "heard a couple fighting." I wonder if the "couple heard fighting" could have ended abruptly. All the perp would have to do is punch me in the face or stomach and that would end the shouting. Would you walk away if you heard a couple fighting, or stand by to see if you could be of assistance?
On a side note. I once asked a specialist in (international) crimes what would hurt the most if he was caught committing a crime. I thought he would say: losing my job, losing my wife, professional shame, loss of freedom, being hated by his children, serving time in prison.....But, NO! He said the most humiliating and hurtful thing would be if his Mother found out. Maybe that Freud fell'r was on to something. I've always told my children (and everyone else, too), "The first sign of mental illness is not loving your Mother."

 

[waltzingmatilda]

I have a hard time wrapping my mind around there being no screams heard or anything of that nature. Being broad daylight....and in a familiar area where they knew that other people frequent I don't think they truly believed this man would do what he was about to do. Fortunately with the video/audio recovered by LE. I don't think this is one of the unanswered questions for LE. The big question that they are needing to answer is not "Where, How, When...but Who and Why"

Good post! Let's start with why.

*Argument with GF, wife, mother so he went for a walk to blow off steam and he took his rage out on the girls.

*The girls left the trail to pee before the long trek across the bridge and saw him doing something nefarious. ie, he was taking a pee himself and they giggled when they saw him, hes smoking a joint or shooting up and he was afraid he would be reported, he was he was pruning a few pot plants he had on park or private land (he had a few things hidden in that jacket, IMO) poaching on park or private land (ginsing, morel mushrooms, magic mushrooms etc.)

*He was being indoctrinated/initiated into a gang or other fringe group and he had to have a kill under his belt to join.

*Revenge kill to send a message to someone.

*Thrill kill

Everyone feel free to add to this list. These are some thoughts that have been bouncing around in my head and all is MOO.

 

[Charlot123]

wondering if when the perp was a kid, assuming he was local, he would make “a fort” or something with a good view/vantage point of the bridge, and play alone? This some locals might be able to remember. I think the “observation place” was not unfamiliar to him. He might have even invited other kids to play with him, but they were not thrilled.

 

[gitana1]

@gitana1, thank you, and it makes total sense and logic, coming from you.

Why then all emotional calisthenics from Carter? “Hiding in plain view”, “seeing how he changed”, “the Shack”? It surely sounded like they knew, and were throwing hints.

If it is that simple, “we think we are close, we think he is local, but we simply need more witnesses before we can identify him”, why making it sound like “Clue”?

IMO they have thoroughly profiled the murderer and he was reacting in a manner meant to affect the killer.

I also think he has genuine emotion from working this case. We have to remember, these guys aren't people reading about this case on the internet. He has heard ALL the audio. He knows exactly what it sounded like as those girls were murdered.

He has seen their bodies. He knows exactly what they looked like after their monster was through with them.

And he has looked into their loved one's eyes. He knows exactly what toll these murders have taken on the victim's loved ones. People to whom e has undoubtedly promised justice. This is his state. These are his people.

For him, it's quite personal.

 

[gitana1]

MOO at this point looking for new witnesses sounds incredibly difficult. If there are anymore.

True. But there might be someone who has refused to come forward previously or someone who isn't aware that they saw something important ad who might feel stupid about coming forward.

You never know.

 

[Boxer]

Yep. Sad. Maybe this is what it really comes up to, a tiny dying out town, a decrepit bridge, and too few people attracted by it, except for teenagers who don’t have many other outlets for their activity, and a psychopath?

MOO an ex-teen from around the area. Probably steeped in *advertiser censored* and collecting weapons to feel powerful and to have a something to play with and talk about.

 

[Cutiekitty]

WGRAM.... bbm. I love reading different perspectives. So I was thinking about "heard them rebelling"....I think it has been mentioned many times (IIRC) a person said they "heard a couple fighting." I wonder if the "couple heard fighting" could have ended abruptly. All the perp would have to do is punch me in the face or stomach and that would end the shouting. Would you walk away if you heard a couple fighting, or stand by to see if you could be of assistance?
On a side note. I once asked a specialist in (international) crimes what would hurt the most if he was caught committing a crime. I thought he would say: losing my job, losing my wife, professional shame, loss of freedom, being hated by his children, serving time in prison.....But, NO! He said the most humiliating and hurtful thing would be if his Mother found out. Maybe that Freud fell'r was on to something. I've always told my children (and everyone else, too), "The first sign of mental illness is not loving your Mother."

Depends on the level of the fight. If it was about not doing the dishes I’d prob note it, but mind my business and prob forget about it unless specifically asked. I’d stay till I felt the fight wasnt going to escalate. If the fight started sounding bad and it escalated to the point that I thought someone was getting hurt or about to get hurt I’d call the cops first, stay to offer reasonable assistance, and stay on scene in case a statement was needed.