K_Z
Verified Anesthetist
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2010
- Messages
- 6,657
- Reaction score
- 2,497
GUILTY CO - 1 dead, 8 injured, shots fired at STEM School in Highlands Ranch, 7 May 2019
- Thread starter BayouBelle_LA
- Start date
New Posts
-
TRIAL OF CHAD DAYBELL CHARGED WITH MURDER OF JJ VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN AND TAMMY DAYBELL #3- Latest: nodamselindistress
- Joined
- May 9, 2009
- Messages
- 38,831
- Reaction score
- 115,376
For those who may have missed my earlier post:
No, I meant the leadership of the school was trying to say money. They are the ones who set the budget and, according to the news articles, they chose to no longer work with the Sheriff.
JMO
Last edited:
Trino
Well-Known Member
I would like to know more about the connections between the two shooters. The two seem so polar. How long were they friends? How long ago did they plan this attack? Who, if anyone in particular, did they target?
Gardenista
On Time Out
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2016
- Messages
- 19,034
- Reaction score
- 157,388
I would never trust a university with this type of study.
Trino
Well-Known Member
Goodness no on arming teachers. I personally know a teacher in her 60's who said she would welcome a gun. Well, she has vision problems as well as health problems. I can visualize her leaving a weapon out somewhere or forgetting where she put it. OMG NO.
mickey2942
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2016
- Messages
- 13,921
- Reaction score
- 132,691
Haha, very true. Then, the FBI should do something, the same as they did when they studied serial killers.
K_Z
Verified Anesthetist
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2010
- Messages
- 6,657
- Reaction score
- 2,497
Documents below from the FBI, plus some links to curated documents by schoolshooters.info:
School Shooter
https://www.homelandsecurity.iowa.gov/documents/misc/FBI_School_Shooter_Guide.pdf
https://www.radnor.com/DocumentCenter/View/17998/The-School-Shooter---A-Quick-Reference-Guide-FBI
Documents by Type | School Shooters .info
https://schoolshooters.info/sites/default/files/FBI_Active_Shooters_2014_2015.pdf
This is pertinent to CO:
https://schoolshooters.info/sites/default/files/CSSRC-Essentials-of-TA-2018.pdf
Why Kids Kill: Inside the Minds of School Shooters | School Shooters .info
https://schoolshooters.info/sites/default/files/Comparison-Averted-Completed- Incidents.pdf
https://schoolshooters.info/sites/default/files/ssi_final_report.pdf
Many, many more official reports out there. The problem is being studied. It just hasn't been eradicated, or even controlled, to any significant degree.
If you really want to begin to understand why we can't stop school shooters, read the FERPA document below thoroughly. Then read more about FERPA. And more. We have created a system where we CANNOT stop these shootings, because we have decided we CANNOT, and will not, do anything effective with students who are KNOWN to be troubled/ angry/ defiant, including removing them from mainstream education classrooms. They can't be avoided or ignored by other students, apparently either, as some of their parents now believe that ignoring these troubled and antisocial students and their bad behavior is actually a form of bullying condoned by the schools (see my post upthread about lawsuits).
New law limits student discipline measure
Countdown to expand ban on ‘willful defiance’ suspensions in California schools
Troubled students have many more "protected rights" to remain in mainstream school and continue to be "troubled", than non-troubled students have rights to be safe from them.
Well intentioned, but appallingly implemented ideas under FERPA, are literally killing our children, IMO. We have successfully legislated antisocial behavior into a protected "disability" within public schools.
Let that really sink in, embrace your nausea, and you'll never have a good night's sleep again if you have children in public schools, or care about any kids in public schools.
In my humble opinion, yours may vary.
https://schoolshooters.info/sites/default/files/FERPA_K12.pdf
Such a mystery! Where I live in a Third World country now, kids are mainstreamed into all classrooms. It does not matter how disruptive they are.
They watch even more violent movies and play more violent games because they have access to games and movies from Asia which are far more violent.
They take psychotropic drugs. They are bullied. Their parents get divorced or simply leave for a new love interest.
There is high high unemployment. There is a lot of DV and child sex abuse. There is a lot of alcoholism and use of marijuana. Some use of meth but it is hard to get.
But not one school shooting so far. What could possibly be the difference?
They watch even more violent movies and play more violent games because they have access to games and movies from Asia which are far more violent.
They take psychotropic drugs. They are bullied. Their parents get divorced or simply leave for a new love interest.
There is high high unemployment. There is a lot of DV and child sex abuse. There is a lot of alcoholism and use of marijuana. Some use of meth but it is hard to get.
But not one school shooting so far. What could possibly be the difference?
Colorado303
Verified Insider Watts Case
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2018
- Messages
- 2,697
- Reaction score
- 38,972
Parents sued for it. They want their kids in school with other kids
Colorado303
Verified Insider Watts Case
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2018
- Messages
- 2,697
- Reaction score
- 38,972
They’re probably the same parents who refuse to vaccinate. Wonder if they’d be fine w/a kid exposed to Ebola assigned as their child’s locker partner.
K_Z
Verified Anesthetist
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2010
- Messages
- 6,657
- Reaction score
- 2,497
Not too long ago (up until around Columbine), many kids (mostly boys) openly, and with full permission of school administration, brought guns to school. Yes, brought guns and ammunition TO SCHOOL. And even on the school bus. Hard to believe now, right?
Middle and high schools had "hunting clubs". Kids dropped off their guns in the office and picked them up at the end of the day. Boys in shop class would machine stocks and parts, assembling and disassembling guns right there in public schools.
There were NO school shootings for decades upon decades, upon decades. Not in any state or city in America. No where. Not one.
What changed, I wonder?
IMO, we stopped disciplining antisocial kids, and entirely stopped removing them from the classrooms. We stopped removing seriously mentally ill students from public schools.
We (the legislative and institutional educational administration "we") decided to "re-define" antisocial behavior as a protected disability.
"Oppositional defiant disorder."
"EBD-- Emotional and Behavioral Disorders."
We medically pathologize and excuse antisocial behavior, criminal behavior, and violent, menacing, and harassing behaviors as "disabilities" to first and foremost be PROTECTED, and disallow any discipline, expulsion, or environment that removed a troubled student out of mainstream classrooms and off campus.
We deny obvious symptoms of disordered thinking and mental illness in troubled students. We ignore, deny, and minimize the impact of the student's lifestyle and environment outside school hours. Above all, we have to pretend.
We (the institutional and political "we") have decided discipline, suspensions, and expulsions are the source of the student's problems, rather than looking at the behavior as a grave problem itself, and a symptom of even deeper problems.
We say there is nothing more "we" can do, until some troubled kid shoots up a school. And then we recoil in horror, rage, mourn, worry, and wait for the next shooting.
This willful denial is killing our kids. IMO.
We continue to escalate the "protections" for antisocial behavior in public schools.
What could possibly go wrong with that plan? </sarc>
Ask the parents of the dead and injured kids. They'll tell you about their grief. That's a club no one wants to belong to.
Middle and high schools had "hunting clubs". Kids dropped off their guns in the office and picked them up at the end of the day. Boys in shop class would machine stocks and parts, assembling and disassembling guns right there in public schools.
There were NO school shootings for decades upon decades, upon decades. Not in any state or city in America. No where. Not one.
What changed, I wonder?
IMO, we stopped disciplining antisocial kids, and entirely stopped removing them from the classrooms. We stopped removing seriously mentally ill students from public schools.
We (the legislative and institutional educational administration "we") decided to "re-define" antisocial behavior as a protected disability.
"Oppositional defiant disorder."
"EBD-- Emotional and Behavioral Disorders."
We medically pathologize and excuse antisocial behavior, criminal behavior, and violent, menacing, and harassing behaviors as "disabilities" to first and foremost be PROTECTED, and disallow any discipline, expulsion, or environment that removed a troubled student out of mainstream classrooms and off campus.
We deny obvious symptoms of disordered thinking and mental illness in troubled students. We ignore, deny, and minimize the impact of the student's lifestyle and environment outside school hours. Above all, we have to pretend.
We (the institutional and political "we") have decided discipline, suspensions, and expulsions are the source of the student's problems, rather than looking at the behavior as a grave problem itself, and a symptom of even deeper problems.
We say there is nothing more "we" can do, until some troubled kid shoots up a school. And then we recoil in horror, rage, mourn, worry, and wait for the next shooting.
This willful denial is killing our kids. IMO.
We continue to escalate the "protections" for antisocial behavior in public schools.
What could possibly go wrong with that plan? </sarc>
Ask the parents of the dead and injured kids. They'll tell you about their grief. That's a club no one wants to belong to.
In my school district, the three high schools have metal detectors at the entrances of the high schools. And they don't hesitate to kick out the students with disciplinary problems. Bullying is against school policy. Not one school shooting here, either. I think the problem lies with the leadership and how seriously they take school safety.
JMO
mickey2942
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2016
- Messages
- 13,921
- Reaction score
- 132,691
@K_Z I know very well the laws, PL 94-142, is what started it all. I taught Special Education for 20 years, and decided to leave. Least Restrictive Environment...the whole thing gets even crazier. There are things that went on, I decided to just leave. And since leaving education, have had opportunities for lots of other positions. Leaving the classroom was the best thing I ever did for my sanity. And, probably safety.
I won't go off track and discuss some of the situations I was in, but ethically and morally, I couldn't continue to ignore some of the glaring issues. Much of what is in your post...
I won't go off track and discuss some of the situations I was in, but ethically and morally, I couldn't continue to ignore some of the glaring issues. Much of what is in your post...
This has been going on since the law for educating all children. PL 94-142. I forget which year and too lazy to look but it has been decades. This is not a new issue.
Kids used to be in institutions and not in school. That law made it so kids were in school in the least restrictive environment. The most intense level is a residential treatment place.
It is much cheaper to have kids mainstreamed in school so taxpayers have gone right along with it.
If a school wants to expel a child, it could be a court battle with wealthy parents. So if someone goes to a wealthy school, it is more difficult to remove a child.
Parents who do not like the diagnosis that a public school gives go shopping in the private school situation thinking that the public school is wrong.
If the private school needs money, they will keep difficult children esp if the parent may be wealthy.
Because of privacy laws, people have no clue what kid’s behavior is like.
With the family dysfunctions of so many kinds, kids are having a lot of issues. I think there is a lot more alcoholism and drug usage nowadays.
Public schools can and do kick out any student for failing to abide by the rules in the student handbook. That's why there are alternative high schools. Kids in our area who have posted threats on social media have been arrested. If their kids or parents report bullying, it is investigated.
Instead of acting on the letter by the concerned parent about bullying and violence, the STEM school filed a lawsuit against the messenger. I have to wonder if the school board is elected or appointed because in this case leadership failed to protect these students.
JMO
Are you in a well to do school district? My school district had the well to do school and kids were not kicked out. Parents could afford lawyers and would use them. One case could require the principal to be involved with litigation for weeks.
It is easier to kick kids out of middle and low income schools