Found Deceased UT-5 -Year-Old Elizabeth Shelley Found Deceased (UNCLE ARRESTED) #4

[helpfulcharlie]

Procedural question. If any new information is obtained from the autopsy which would lead to additional charges, would they issue that new charging document (PC) right away or would there be some strategic reason to hold it back?

 

[MsBetsy]

Procedural question. If any new information is obtained from the autopsy which would lead to additional charges, would they issue that new charging document (PC) right away or would there be some strategic reason to hold it back?

I'm not sure, but after reading the charges it seems to have covered a lot that he could have done. I don't know what else is left.
We might get some more details, though.
Maybe someone can post the charges again? I'm not sure how to find the document.

 

[Bravo]

Welcome BaileeRyce

 

[pepper 34]

I believe you may have misunderstood AW's felony conviction, and resultant probation.

Probation typically occurs prior to and/or instead of serving prison time; and parole is an early release from prison. I believe AW was only held in jail pre-conviction awaiting trial/plea and sentencing.

Relative to housing, it's my understanding that a homeless person cannot be held to violate PCRS because if you have no money, you can't help not paying rent and losing the roof over your head.

However, if you're on parole, the convict is eligible for housing assistance and/or transitional housing. Essentially, an early released inmate is still the custody of the state, and eligible for housing whereas probation is not.

Other probation requirements are that you comply with certain court-ordered rules and conditions under the supervision of a probation officer. Typical conditions may include performing community service, meeting with your probation officer, refraining from using illegal drugs or excessive alcohol, avoiding certain people and places, and appearing in court during requested times.

MOO

More about probation at this link.

Probation FAQ - FindLaw

Thank-you for taking the time to explain all this, Seattle1. I certainly did misunderstand.

 

[JustEve]

I wonder if everyone did the eggshell shuffle around him,
Afraid they’d piss him off & he’d erupt.
He makes me sick.

That is exactly what I had in mind, reading those interviews and police reports.

As if his issues would "disappear" if those around him were quiet enough.
His issues were not taken seriously, I don´t mean by family and friends, but by society- judges for minors, parole officers etc.

 

[JustEve]

I don't think we will ever understand the why. Part of me thought maybe he did it to get back at his sister for some perceived slight.

But it's obvious he has little to no impulse control, so that's probably what it ultimately came down to. He had the impulse to do it so he did it. No other deeper reason required.

I agree completely!

 

[helpfulcharlie]

I'm not sure, but after reading the charges it seems to have covered a lot that he could have done. I don't know what else is left.
We might get some more details, though.
Maybe someone can post the charges again? I'm not sure how to find the document.

I don't think there's a need to post them again, they've been posted so many times. I'm familiar with what he's already been charged with, hopefully we all are by now. I guess I'm struggling to reconcile motive, and reluctantly waiting for body condition details so that I can factor them into my existing conclusions. In short form, I'm still on the fence between mentally damaged rage-quit and mentally damaged sex crime. And yes, I know it's a dark thing to think about, but there's also something telling about the level of violence inflicted. There's killing, and there's overkilling, and I want to get a sense of, for lack of better terms, at what point the crime went from violence to covering it up. I realize none of this is going to help me understand why someone harms a child.

 

[JustEve]

I know what grandpa said & a lot of posters do think this was revenge towards the family. I don’t. I think it was about Alex’s immediate needs & the murder was because, well, what else was he gonna do? He was going down one way or the other. Moo
I can’t see why he’d be envious of his sister. Help me understand (if you know) this thought.

You are absolutely right here, in my opinion. To me, he seems far too disorganized (mentally), too impulsive and too distracted once his urges and impulses rise and overwhelm him.

He acted on sick, raw impulse, obeying it without trying to control it, with no rationality whatsoever, just like a wild animal.

As far as his relationship with his sister is concerned, I don´t think he is capable of any positive emotion, and to be envious, you need to have ability to focus, which I don´t think he has.

As you said earlier, like he has no frontal lobe. All urges and impulses and no cognitive, emotional or moral superstructure. He is very, very dangerous individual.

 

[JustEve]

He does not seem the type that would want to settle down, work consistently & be a provider. His temper was probably a detriment to a long term relationship.
I think he’ll learn to control his anger cuz I don’t think where he’s going it will be accepted.
Bet he’s sobbing like a baby right now.
I’m glad DP is off the table, he’s young, I’d like him to live to 100, looking over his shoulder every moment he’s out of his cell, experiencing the same fear little Lizzy endured.

Great post!

 

[MicheleT]

BBM

Agreed. and I hope they cut off all contact with him-- let it be as though he's dead.
No jail visits, no care packages, etc.

I understand the sentiment, I do. He doesn't deserve comfort or ease of life. But I have a different view.
I work in a jail and so for the sake of the guards, I hope he still has someone on the outside there for him. Without that touch of life outside, he will become awful for guards and civilian staff that work inside with him. Each inmate needs that one person who still cares, both for themselves and for the staff.

MOO IMHO

 

[JustEve]

The suspect wanted one child that night, and that is the child he murdered. He murdered a family member, perhaps hoping that it would stay under the radar.
Given the escaliating history, it seems possible that he would do it again.

There must be a reason he was so angry earlier in the evening when he vandalized his mother's home. Did he get fired? What set him off?

Probably someone answered by now- it was not the same evening, he vandalized stepmother´s house 3 years ago.

 

[JustEve]

My thought was that since they knew he was on foot, a good tracking dog should have been able to follow his trail to where the cameras picked him up without her.

And then, backtrack all along that route, with cadaver dogs, and search everywhere, thoroughly, for her.

Obviously, it didn’t work.

The dogs were said to track Lizzie, I guess. Not him.

 

[Bravo]

I understand the sentiment, I do. He doesn't deserve comfort or ease of life. But I have a different view.
I work in a jail and so for the sake of the guards, I hope he still has someone on the outside there for him. Without that touch of life outside, he will become awful for guards and civilian staff that work inside with him. Each inmate needs that one person who still cares, both for themselves and for the staff.

MOO IMHO

I hear you. As much as sometimes I wish for "prison Justice" I remind myself it puts the guards at risk.
ETA- You have my utmost respect. It's a tough and dangerous job.

 

[Jo in Calif]

I'm not sure, but after reading the charges it seems to have covered a lot that he could have done. I don't know what else is left.
We might get some more details, though.
Maybe someone can post the charges again? I'm not sure how to find the document.

http://kslnewsradio.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/WHIPPLE-PC.pdf

 

[JustEve]

My thought was that since t
hey knew he was on foot, a good tracking dog should have been able to follow his trail to where the cameras picked him up without her.

The dogs were probably tracking Lizzie, it is not their fault. They have excellent noses and are willing to cooperate with their handlers, but they were told to track her, not him, MOO.

 

[Bravo]

Yes and with Lizzie being carried tracking next to impossible. As far as killer goes there would not be an item available to get a good enough scent. Weather etc. so much was against the dogs.

 

[MsBetsy]

I don't think there's a need to post them again, they've been posted so many times. I'm familiar with what he's already been charged with, hopefully we all are by now. I guess I'm struggling to reconcile motive, and reluctantly waiting for body condition details so that I can factor them into my existing conclusions. In short form, I'm still on the fence between mentally damaged rage-quit and mentally damaged sex crime. And yes, I know it's a dark thing to think about, but there's also something telling about the level of violence inflicted. There's killing, and there's overkilling, and I want to get a sense of, for lack of better terms, at what point the crime went from violence to covering it up. I realize none of this is going to help me understand why someone harms a child.

Yes, it's so hard to understand what makes someone do this and whenever the question comes up, the answer always seems to be that we will never know because it's so hard to get inside the mind of a criminal like this.
I only read the charges once, but they seemed to cover a broad range of options so it's hard to know exactly what he did.
It may have been a sexually motivated crime without any actual SA at all. But I doubt that's the case, going by the evidence they found.
Whatever the case, it seems like he definitely had some mental health problems as well as drug addiction, but that alone doesn't explain the horrible crime he committed.
We haven't seen any juvenile or school records, but I bet there is plenty about his past that could help us to understand what made him do this.
I suspect that he is emotionally empty, and has no empathy or respect for human life. Or at least has traits similar to that of a psychopath. Imo

 

[JustEve]

I agree that he probably wanted nothing of the sort. I'm probably not explaining myself well tonight. What I mean is the type who feel like the world owes them a living. They resent anyone who has any type of success and ignore the work and effort it takes for those people to have that success.

Those types of people tend to be the ones who won't follow any rules unless they have those rules forced upon them, like AW will in prison. I don't think he would ever be safe to let out. It's going to be a long, miserable existence which is nothing short of what he deserves. I do feel bad for the child he was and the bad life it sounds like he had, but that's still no excuse for murder. MOO

I agree with you completely!

 

[mickey2942]

Personally, if AW did do any other crimes against Elizabeth Shelley, I for one, would hope that out of respect for the family, that the information is not made public.

Partially, because there may be a genre of people who really want to know those details. And why feed them...

He is charged with Capital Murder, and a bunch of other crimes, but the Capital Murder is enough to keep him LWOP.

 

[Not a Belle]

I think that he has no conscience, and no treatment in the world can instill one. My opinion only of course.