Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #105

[helpfulcharlie]

I've been thinking about this. Now what happens if a perp is arrested for a felony but pleads guilty to a lesser misdemeanor charge? Does the DNA get binned? This happens a lot from what I read on Mycase. Also, as cases can take a long time, maybe DNA for BG has been taken but not even processed yet. MOO.

Realistically, if you were LE in charge of those databases, would you EVER take DNA records OUT of those databases, even when directed, or required by law?

 

[susiQ]

Realistically, if you were LE in charge of those databases, would you EVER take DNA records OUT of those databases, even when directed, or required by law?

Personally, I would hope if someone was charged on a felony count and DNA was taken and entered into the database as per law, I believe it should be "law" that keeps it there regardless of a plea deal. JMO

 

[rosesfromangels]

I just wanted to take a moment to say how grateful I am to LE for their persistence, determination in seeking justice for the 2 Roses.

When horrific murders like this take place, anxiety and anger runs very high - and understandably so. Unfortunately, many times that anger has no where to properly land, and it ends up getting directed to the heroes of LE.

I think LE has done an excellent job in this case of keeping the public informed with the information they can, (they don't want to release any details that would jeopardize a conviction), and helping the community stay orderly and calm while they pursue the Perp(s).

Surrounding our incredible LE today with gratitude and prayers for continued strength and persistence to bring Justice for Abby & Libby - born on earth to blossom in Heaven.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[tresir2012]

Roses, ITA. Sadly I think there is a criminal element who won't tell, possibly because of their own unknown evil deeds, and/or they just don't care at all.

It only takes one brave person to tell IMO. Please let that be soon.

 

[tresir2012]

Realistically, if you were LE in charge of those databases, would you EVER take DNA records OUT of those databases, even when directed, or required by law?

LE must uphold the law. MOO because I don't know, but it is perhaps likely the DNA only goes in if the felony conviction is upheld. They would also lose the right to own a gun.

 

[MizStery]

I was going to write a post questioning how much of our information is based off profilers analysis and probability. Deep down I do not believe that ‘especially after all the hard work put forth during this 2+ year investigation’! I just feel frustrated and then I smiled because this quote describes me .
A Quote From Alice in Wonderland
“But I don’t want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
"Oh, you can’t help that," said the Cat: "we’re all mad here. I’m mad. You’re mad."
"How do you know I’m mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn’t have come here.”

 

[Boxer]

I was going to write a post questioning how much of our information is based off profilers analysis and probability. Deep down I do not believe that ‘especially after all the hard work put forth during this 2+ year investigation’! I just feel frustrated and then I smiled because this quote describes me .
A Quote From Alice in Wonderland
“But I don’t want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
"Oh, you can’t help that," said the Cat: "we’re all mad here. I’m mad. You’re mad."
"How do you know I’m mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn’t have come here.”

I ran across this article on a 43 year old case being solved with family tree genetics. The term "hiding in plain sight" was used.
MOO to me the phrase is has come to mean a criminal for whom police have CS DNA but their DNA is not in CODIS. If the criminal can stay free a subsequent police DNA swab, they live a normal life in the community. I don't think Carter would misuse police jargon.

Arrest in 43-year-old murder case stuns Wisconsin town

 

[Razz]

He may be “a loner”, and yet “not a loner”.

“The term is “an ambivert”, a seemingly extroverted introvert. It happens to people who are, by nature, introverted, but hypercompensate by pushing themselves to be in the crowd, so to say. They sometimes end up drinking too much as alcohol socially disinhibits them. (Parents usually state that their shy kid suddenly blossomed in college (duh...). )

Or else, they do not hypercompensate, but are merely extroverted within the frameworks of their chosen profession.

So the BG still may be a loner, in a way.

I've been thinking about Libby fishing in the Monon Bridge area. Was she alone or w/ someone during these times? I'm beginning to think BG may have had a thing for Libby. Maybe that's where he originally saw her.

Could it be he privately followed her via FB? Did he know about her interest in forensics and her interest in welding?

I wonder if those are somehow connected. She had interests that a man would likely have. And maybe he introduced himself to her at some time. So I'm wondering if his interest was Libby and Abby just happened to be the "third party?"

All my speculation and not grounded in facts. Just a theory.

 

[sunshineray]

I've been thinking about this. Now what happens if a perp is arrested for a felony but pleads guilty to a lesser misdemeanor charge? Does the DNA get binned? This happens a lot from what I read on Mycase. Also, as cases can take a long time, maybe DNA for BG has been taken but not even processed yet. MOO.

Some states swab certain misdemeanor charges and convictions, Alabama and Kansas to just name a couple. Indiana swabs only for felonies.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

(Font colored blue by me for clarity)
Sounds like @Charlot123 may be a good WS resource on the MBTI (16 "types": 1/2 are extroverts; 1/2 are introverts). Which of the 8 introvert types are more likely to "fit" into the profile, I wonder?

ISTP perhaps? Guess as always.

 

[Boxer]

If they keep fingerprints on file after an arrest, they should keep DNA as well.

 

[sunshineray]

I ran across this article on a 43 year old case being solved with family tree genetics. The term "hiding in plain sight" was used.
MOO to me the phrase is has come to mean a criminal for whom police have CS DNA but their DNA is not in CODIS. If the criminal can stay free a subsequent police DNA swab, they live a normal life in the community. I don't think Carter would misuse police jargon.

Arrest in 43-year-old murder case stuns Wisconsin town

Ok this case gives me the willies. This is the hiding-in-plain-sight case and a double murder. Since this man's previous violent attacks were before the age of computers he was able to elude justice for so long. He just lived his life after destroying two, just chilling.

 

[raja]

I was going to write a post questioning how much of our information is based off profilers analysis and probability. Deep down I do not believe that ‘especially after all the hard work put forth during this 2+ year investigation’! I just feel frustrated and then I smiled because this quote describes me .
A Quote From Alice in Wonderland
“But I don’t want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
"Oh, you can’t help that," said the Cat: "we’re all mad here. I’m mad. You’re mad."
"How do you know I’m mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn’t have come here.”

I can’t help but think somewhere there is a DNA link to all us guys. I know no one who who follows these events like we do.

 

[Charlot123]

Ok this case gives me the willies. This is the hiding-in-plain-sight case and a double murder. Since this man's previous violent attacks were before the age of computers he was able to elude justice for so long. He just lived his life after destroying two, just chilling.

And how we know these were just two? Some cases will never be solved. Or bodies will never be found. Maybe there are more of his victims among these.

 

[Charlot123]

ISTP perhaps? Guess as always.

I honestly don't know. I think the test is obsolete anyhow as computers have changed everything.

 

[Charlot123]

It might be. Could be a sports announcer for school events too. You’d hear them, but not necessarily see them.

Exactly!

 

[Charlot123]

Or someone at church. Now with the weekend upon us, maybe someone reading this is local to Delphi, and this will bring some new possibilities to mind as to a possible suspect. What church? {shrug} Who knows? For those who go to church frequently, there are a number of voices one hears each week... Could be someone right near the door, handing you a church bulletin with announcements, etc. Could be someone standing near the coffee or the donuts. (Yeah, that close.) Could be...someone in the choir room (creepy thought, if it's someone that nearby). Maybe someone only semi-familiar and only well-known enough to say Good morning!, or... say (thinking out-loud here) someone making announcements, or leading the music/the worship (all MOO), or even... (grasping at straws here) could it be? Someone giving the message? Up on the platform? A youth pastor/sponsor, or children's minister? (Now that's extra-creepy, if it were someone in a trusted position like...that.)

Creepy, but...certainly not impossible.

Probably (again, MOO) the last place most people would think to look for a suspect. Great place to blend in...

"Hiding in.plain.sight..."

n. b. Just had this thought -- a church (and the various people who work there) would be an excellent place to "blend in", since many who work/volunteer at churches are very trusting souls (my general observations only; others may have different experiences), and... maybe...maybe someone at a church who might even occasionally see the suspect would immediately rush to cover for them: Him? Can't even imagine it -- why, he's not.that.kind.of.person. So trusting, perhaps, that they're missing a person right in front of them...
--
Church on Sunday. Murder on Monday. (sounds like a book title, but...also sounds creepily possible.)

Also, if you sing "Hallelujah" with someone, or say, "Amen, brother", how can you believe this person is a killer? He believes in Ten Commandments, right?
(Wrong.. He can kill, and then pray, and believe that this grave sin is absolved).

If he is in one of the trusting jobs, a church, a hospital, in LE, or a paramedic, he needs to be weeded out ASAP.

 

[Charlot123]

I've been thinking about Libby fishing in the Monon Bridge area. Was she alone or w/ someone during these times? I'm beginning to think BG may have had a thing for Libby. Maybe that's where he originally saw her.

Could it be he privately followed her via FB? Did he know about her interest in forensics and her interest in welding?

I wonder if those are somehow connected. She had interests that a man would likely have. And maybe he introduced himself to her at some time. So I'm wondering if his interest was Libby and Abby just happened to be the "third party?"

All my speculation and not grounded in facts. Just a theory.

I can't imagine them being friends, I think Libby would see through him.

However, your post is a good reminder that both girls were good students, had various interests and were just talented.

I don't think Libby had "man" interests, simply, women are becoming more assertive, and good for them!

 

[Charlot123]

bbm
Perhaps, we should remember Lizzy/Lyric in Iowa the coming time and keep it in our mind a little bit? The dates of murder 02132017 (Delphi) and 07132012 (possibly meaningful, if the perp is a genius with numbers); the car in Iowa (which witnesses described as “a large and clunky white SUV” and “an old-style boxy suburban”).
It will be interesting in a very sad way, I fear.

I don't think he necessarily kills in pairs, but in general, sifting around unresolved murders and SA around could help.

 

[Charlot123]

I wonder sometimes if the sheriff is having some sort of emotional breakdown over this case...his words are so jumbled and confusing, almost every time he speaks. Jmo, it can happen.

I am fairly convinced they do NOT have a suspect or even a suspicion of a specific person.

The only way I would believe they do is if they do NOT have any DNA so can’t get an item to test him. But then if they don’t have DNA, how have they been eliminating people for two years?

Nah, this is just the way he talks. Compare to Flora fire.

ISP: There is no cover-up in Flora investigation

... said Supt. Carter. “I’d give my life to find out who killed those little girls.”

I mean, there are people who are emotional with words, but it is just them.

ETA: I agree, there may be certain burnout because Delphi cases have pulled attention of the nation to that police department. It is probably hard to work under a lot of scrutiny.