Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #105

[missingm]

What else does the river kill? The smell? So that the dogs would not respond? Buying some time?

It would cover up sounds.

 

[Charlot123]

It would cover up sounds.

And washes off any DNA, too

 

[Sneaker33]

If they are truly religious, how do they deal with the concept of the final judgment for their kid, and for themselves, too? I am not strong in religious concepts, but if there is one grave sin, this is it... MOO x 3

They may believe if he devotes the rest of his life to God then God will view all of the actions in his life - good and bad. He may not go directly to Heaven but God is forgiving and he may eventually get there. Perhaps this is their mindset.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

ISP investigator, family members of Abby Williams and Libby German heading to Crime Con
Family members of Abby Williams and Libby German, as well as police officers investigating their case, will bring their story to a new audience hundreds of miles away from Delphi.

They're being featured on a panel at Crime Con in New Orleans this weekend.

They hope this could turn up the clues they need to find out who is responsible for killing the girls.

 

[Charlot123]

They may believe if he devotes the rest of his life to God then God will view all of the actions in his life - good and bad. He may not go directly to Heaven but God is forgiving and he may eventually get there. Perhaps this is their mindset.

But the moral responsibility- to the innocent girls, whose lives have been cut so short, to their devastated relatives, to this tiny rural community that, too, has been broken by his senseless crime - is taken out of the equation?

(Self-sinning and self-absolving, such a zero-waste concept...)

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Carter doubled down on that.

“Libby and Abby need you,” Carter said. “Please do not rationalize tips away – rationalize what you think might not be important away – by thinking, ‘He would never do that to a human being.’ Or think, ‘What I know doesn’t matter.’”

bbm

^^ This!

 

[tresir2012]

MOO just thought about this, since the sketch drawn two days after murders, the witness reported immediately, police had to take a little time set up a meeting with the police artist .
MOO that lends a lot of credibility to that witness. I wonder why looking for that individual wasn't the primary investigation?

As I recall there was the immediate "know what your kids are doing" -- then the investigation quickly moved to Indiana Packers whose employees were scrutinized, and a Bicycle Bridge Road house searched. Road block stops to ask residents if they saw anything unusual. After that on to the RSO's and people turned in by tips.

I think once they had the video and audio, indicating someone older, (they even had a 70 year old as POI) they just ignored that younger sketch. They should check the tips that called in RL as that could include the real perp IMO.

 

[tresir2012]

I'm perplexed with the creek crossing, as well. IMO, crossing a creek, getting cold and wet right before committing murder, then chance being seen wet and muddy afterwards, would not be on a criminal's agenda.

The only way I'd go into a creek and get wet on a winter's day would be if I lived close by and could walk or drive back in very short order. If I was far from transportation or home, I'd do whatever I could to avoid getting wet. JMO

SBM

This is important especially if witnesses only saw BG before 2.30 p.m. IMO. LE will know when witnesses saw him. If no one saw him leave, why not?

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

SBM

This is important especially if witnesses only saw BG before 2.30 p.m. IMO. LE will know when witnesses saw him. If no one saw him leave, why not?

(Ponders for 2 Hrs...)

A) He's still there?

B) Everyone Else on Trail that Day was Blind or Partially-Sighted?

Very Amateur Opinion and Speculation.

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

ISP investigator, family members of Abby Williams and Libby German heading to Crime Con
Family members of Abby Williams and Libby German, as well as police officers investigating their case, will bring their story to a new audience hundreds of miles away from Delphi.

They're being featured on a panel at Crime Con in New Orleans this weekend.

They hope this could turn up the clues they need to find out who is responsible for killing the girls.

I think Kelsi G attended last Year too iirc. It was at crimecon that she approached James Renner with the story of the case , this led to the series of interviews by JR that have been discussed here recently.

Hopefully, more coverage that may arise from their attendance this Year can only help

 

[rainwaterstill]

I think both parents suspect their son. I imagine it would be hard not to be in denial, and they may be waiting for a subpoena to testify as he would face the death penalty if convicted. They do have a moral and legal responsibility given this was premeditated murder. I have a feeling they will wait until legally pushed. I do not think they can blame a mental illness for the son's crimes. This was rage and the inability to handle anger and disappointment imo.

Indiana state law does not recognize "mentally ill by reason of insanity" types of pleas/ defenses. They have " guilty but mentally ill" instead. There is a huge difference between the two types. In "Guilty but mentally ill," the person is found guilty and sent to a mental hospital for treatment. When and if doctors have determined the person is " cured", they are then transferred to a regular prison to serve their sentence.. Indiana's laws on this have been upheld by the Supreme Court. Also, juries almost never buy a " mentally ill" defense. These laws prevent a "get out of jail free" card for defendants.

 

[somequestions]

If he were parked at DCS or the cemetery, wouldn't crossing the creek make his escape easier?

It depends on where he was parked. Since I think the killer is a truck driver, I have a hard time imagining where that parking place is located.

 

[SilentRogue]

Indiana state law does not recognize "mentally ill by reason of insanity" types of pleas/ defenses. They have " guilty but mentally ill" instead. There is a huge difference between the two types. In "Guilty but mentally ill," the person is found guilty and sent to a mental hospital for treatment. When and if doctors have determined the person is " cured", they are then transferred to a regular prison to serve their sentence.. Indiana's laws on this have been upheld by the Supreme Court. Also, juries almost never buy a " mentally ill" defense. These laws prevent a "get out of jail free" card for defendants.

It's not that juries dont buy these defenses, it is that the burden of the defense is so high.

When pleading an affirmative defense, the burden if proof shifts from the prosecution to the defense.

In cases of mental insanity defenses, this burden requires the defense to show by a preponderance of the evidence that the accused mental state made them incapable of understanding the nature or effect of their actions.

In the few cases they can show such a severe mental illness they can even meet that burden, rarely can the prosecution not provide a successful rebuttal by presenting evidence of premeditation, or post crime attempts to clean-up, etc... that evidence the accuseds capacity to comprehend the gravity or nature of their actions.

 

[MistyWaters]

ISP investigator, family members of Abby Williams and Libby German heading to Crime Con
Family members of Abby Williams and Libby German, as well as police officers investigating their case, will bring their story to a new audience hundreds of miles away from Delphi.

They're being featured on a panel at Crime Con in New Orleans this weekend.

They hope this could turn up the clues they need to find out who is responsible for killing the girls.

It great to see the families are ready to make a media appearance, this time accompanied Sgt Riley.

“Family members of Abby Williams and Libby German, as well as police officers investigating their case, will bring their story to a new audience hundreds of miles away from Delphi.......

....Sgt. Riley will take their case to Crime Con, which is an annual event for fans of true crime. The convention was in Indianapolis a couple years ago. Investigators and family members talked about Abby and Libby at the event last year in Nashville. Riley says there's a renewed interest after they released that new information in April.

"We're hoping for information to come out that maybe we can get that one tip, that one piece of information we need to help tie this case up and get it solved," said Riley. "These people are very much still looking at us for the answers and we still want them to know we're still trying to give them answers."
ISP investigator, family members of Abby Williams and Libby German heading to Crime Con

 

[TL4S]

SBM

This is important especially if witnesses only saw BG before 2.30 p.m. IMO. LE will know when witnesses saw him. If no one saw him leave, why not?

I'm curious about the witness who said she "saw something that needed reporting." What if that "something" was along the lines of somebody in the trail vicinity with wet pant legs? But I'm guessing if that were the case, LE probably would've released NBG sketch sooner? IDK.

And it's been discussed on here previously whether the creek was too high that day for a sandbar crossing. Maybe muddy shoes were all that came of crossing the creek. I just find it hard to believe BG would cross if the water was very high, especially if the plan was to SA them on the opposite side.

 

[tresir2012]

(Ponders for 2 Hrs...)

A) He's still there?

B) Everyone Else on Trail that Day was Blind or Partially-Sighted?

Very Amateur Opinion and Speculation.

C) He lives/stays/works there?

ponders for another hour.

 

[tresir2012]

I'm curious about the witness who said she "saw something that needed reporting." What if that "something" was along the lines of somebody in the trail vicinity with wet pant legs? But I'm guessing if that were the case, LE probably would've released NBG sketch sooner? IDK.

And it's been discussed on here previously whether the creek was too high that day for a sandbar crossing. Maybe muddy shoes were all that came of crossing the creek. I just find it hard to believe BG would cross if the water was very high, especially if the plan was to SA them on the opposite side.

I have always thought he took them down the hill to the road then followed the road right down to the creek, which is also where the sand bar appears to be in Satellite photos. I'll try to post a map.

eta see if this works

Google Maps

Click on map link above

 

[TL4S]

Many of you have probably seen these, but I have been looking for a satellite map of the area in winter. It gives me a better picture in my head than the summer, full leaved maps on Google. The water in the creek is higher, but the sandbars are still visible.
The dates are on the pictures.

 

[TL4S]

I have always thought he took them down the hill to the road then followed the road right down to the creek, which is also where the sand bar appears to be in Satellite photos. I'll try to post a map.

eta see if this works

Google Maps

Click on map link above

Thanks! Yes, that's the area I've always thought they crossed. But the creek looks low during the time that photo was captured, and easy to cross.

I just posted fall and winter map for reference, too.

 

[tresir2012]

Thanks! Yes, that's the area I've always thought they crossed. But the creek looks low during the time that photo was captured, and easy to cross.

I just posted fall and winter map for reference, too.

Did we both think about this at the same time? Thanks for the winter pic - I didn't know how to find that.