GUILTY Ireland - Anastasia Kriegel, 14, Found deceased, Lucan, Co Dublin, 14 May 2018 *minors arrested*

[Frizby]

I heard about that too, hard to believe someone would slip up that badly? Wonder if he will get 3 years in jail, doubt it somehow

That happened in another case in Ireland a few years back, can't for the life of me remember which one though.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Until this morning, I had not heard the name Ana Kriegel.

The Connor Gallagher piece was in my Twitter feed and I thought the suggested read time of 75 minutes must be a typo but no!

First of all, what an absolutely brilliant piece of journalism from Connor ...

Secondly, I've spent the whole day reading everything I could find, especially here of course.

I've followed so many cases here now that I can't even say that I was especially shocked by anything I've read. Unbearably saddened but, not shocked.

Not shocked probably because so many of the different cases all share many similarities.

If there's any private chats, please add me if possible?

The Irish Times article was so well written, wish journos were always this good. Shocker of a case. I find it interesting the jury was unanimous in both cases, obviously found the evidence v convincing against Boy B.

 

[mrazda71]

Are you serious? I heard it was said on some station but by an ex Garda. Who was it do you know?

Take a look at Niall O'Connor (@NI_ALLO): Niall O'Connor (@NI_ALLO) | Twitter

 

[Frizby]

Facebook and Twitter are in court this morning in Ireland over the production of names and photos identifying Boy A & Boy B.

There were at least three pictures doing the rounds yesterday, obviously not all could have been the boys. An innocent boy has been incorrectly identified as being one and Boy B's family has since gone into hiding after being identified. I just cannot understand the stupidity of people publishing those photographs publicly contravening not only the Children's Act but also a separate Judges ruling. Expecting to see some ordinary people being bough up on charges for this.

Kriégel case: Innocent boy falsely identified on social media, court told

 

[Mo Thuairim]

Gardai, prosecutors, court officials and legal teams involved in the Ana Kriegel case have been made aware of the alleged naming of one of the teens convicted of her murder on local radio.

Officials aware of alleged naming of boy on local radio - Independent.ie

 

[coffeeandacig]

So let me understand this...

Boy A and Boy B commit an unconscionable vicious adult crime and are found guilty. The Irish public will never know whether these "boys" have committed other assaults against children, will never know when they are released from prison, and will never know who these very dangerous criminals are, solely based on their age?

MOO - I think when teens commit these kinds of calculated, aggravated murders, it is likely they are at the very least sociopaths or perhaps even psychopathic, neither of which is curable. For the safety of the Irish public, I think they should release the names.

 

[mrazda71]

So let me understand this...

Boy A and Boy B commit an unconscionable vicious adult crime and are found guilty. The Irish public will never know whether these "boys" have committed other assaults against children, will never know when they are released from prison, and will never know who these very dangerous criminals are, solely based on their age?

MOO - I think when teens commit these kinds of calculated, aggravated murders, it is likely they are at the very least sociopaths or perhaps even psychopathic, neither of which is curable. For the safety of the Irish public, I think they should release the names.

If the public could be trusted to use the information wisely, I'm sure it would be but, sadly it would be used for retribution and revenge instead which is why it is unlikely to happen.

 

[Frizby]

So let me understand this...

Boy A and Boy B commit an unconscionable vicious adult crime and are found guilty. The Irish public will never know whether these "boys" have committed other assaults against children, will never know when they are released from prison, and will never know who these very dangerous criminals are, solely based on their age?

MOO - I think when teens commit these kinds of calculated, aggravated murders, it is likely they are at the very least sociopaths or perhaps even psychopathic, neither of which is curable. For the safety of the Irish public, I think they should release the names.

I think the Children's Act only protects them up to age 18. There seems to be confusion whether the names will be realised then or never as both opinions have been said on two radio programs. There is of course the possibility that the Judge will rule that they get a new identities when they either turn 18 or when released. In the Jamie Bulger case in the UK, both boys got new identities when released. Problem in Ireland, it is a very small country compared to the UK. The sentences will be known next month when the Judge makes his decision.

 

[Vail]

It doesn't really matter who Boy A or Boy B are, who their families are or what they're saying on Facebook IMO. They are in prison where they belong.

This case is incredibly sad. It might be the worst one I've ever read about. Ana won't be forgotten - I just wish it was for her smile or her future achievements and not the absolutely horrific way she died. I sincerely hope they tear down that house and build something in her memory that is dedicated to caring and loving one another.

 

[Frizby]

Where both boys will spend the next four years of their life, till they attain the age of 18. Unfortunately, there is only one such facility in Ireland so they will both be there but it is a large place so hopefully they will be kept apart. Says in the article that they will be in separate living sections, wondering if they can be totally separated throughout their entire stay, school, sports, exams, etc.

What killer teenagers can expect at Oberstown

From reading other articles, it was often mentioned that Ana would be seen walking alone wearing her blue headphones. This is a picture taken of her three months before she was killed wearing those very headphones.

 

[Ironside]

If the public could be trusted to use the information wisely, I'm sure it would be but, sadly it would be used for retribution and revenge instead which is why it is unlikely to happen.

Correct. It's about public safety. Naming these boys means that any boy of a similar age with a similar name or even a similar appearance is massively at risk of violence from some idiot taking the law into their own hands.

There is also the issue that they may well have siblings, it would be deeply unfair to open them up to public scrutiny forever over something they had zero control over.

Already a totally innocent child has been named as one of the boys and there have been threats against the community.

Ana Kriegel case: Court hears innocent child wrongfully identified as one of the boys on social media - Independent.ie

 

[LaCEZ]

I guess when Irish Childrens Act was being drawn up it didn't consider a crime as heinous as the one committed by these two boys. Who could even envisage that a 13 year old could commit something of this despicable violence and depravity !

I think the courts are going to have to name them and publish photos now that innocent people are being dragged into it, it only makes sense. Half of Ireland know who they are, certainly everyone living in Leixlip and surroundings know, so it is futile now as there is no containing it anymore.

They will need new identities anyway when they are eventually released, so might as well do it now to protect other innocent kids being dragged into the mess.

Ironically, a name or photo of an innocent person will not elicit any contempt of court which it will do if it is the murderers names or photos being distributed.

I am not surprised Boy B's family have had to go into hiding, I think any sympathy for the parents evaporated when the father insulted and disrespected the court and Ana's parents.

Are we allowed to discuss the rumours of the backgrounds of the murderers ?

 

[LaCEZ]

Where both boys will spend the next four years of their life, till they attain the age of 18. Unfortunately, there is only one such facility in Ireland so they will both be there but it is a large place so hopefully they will be kept apart. Says in the article that they will be in separate living sections, wondering if they can be totally separated throughout their entire stay, school, sports, exams, etc.

What killer teenagers can expect at Oberstown

From reading other articles, it was often mentioned that Ana would be seen walking alone wearing her blue headphones. This is a picture taken of her three months before she was killed wearing those very headphones.

God, she was so beautiful, unfortunately that was probably her downfall and the cause of all the bullying and isolation she suffered.

 

[Frizby]

From reading

I guess when Irish Childrens Act was being drawn up it didn't consider a crime as heinous as the one committed by these two boys. Who could even envisage that a 13 year old could commit something of this despicable violence and depravity !

I think the courts are going to have to name them and publish photos now that innocent people are being dragged into it, it only makes sense. Half of Ireland know who they are, certainly everyone living in Leixlip and surroundings know, so it is futile now as there is no containing it anymore.

They will need new identities anyway when they are eventually released, so might as well do it now to protect other innocent kids being dragged into the mess.

Ironically, a name or photo of an innocent person will not elicit any contempt of court which it will do if it is the murderers names or photos being distributed.

I am not surprised Boy B's family have had to go into hiding, I think any sympathy for the parents evaporated when the father insulted and disrespected the court and Ana's parents.

Are we allowed to discuss the rumours of the backgrounds of the murderers ?

They won't release any photo's or names, no chance, the law is clear and only in exceptional circumstances can this be done. This would not qualify. And if there is a wrong picture, which evidently there was, it is quite obviously not him as he is at school, play, home, etc. Some just got into a frenzy because they were so angry about the case, it will die down. Facebook and Twitter have still to face their charges, being postponed for a few weeks.

Am intrigued about you rumours comment, I would love to hear them, private might be best, am sure more will come out in the next few weeks anyway.

 

[Kikixxxx]

I guess when Irish Childrens Act was being drawn up it didn't consider a crime as heinous as the one committed by these two boys. Who could even envisage that a 13 year old could commit something of this despicable violence and depravity !

I think the courts are going to have to name them and publish photos now that innocent people are being dragged into it, it only makes sense. Half of Ireland know who they are, certainly everyone living in Leixlip and surroundings know, so it is futile now as there is no containing it anymore.

They will need new identities anyway when they are eventually released, so might as well do it now to protect other innocent kids being dragged into the mess.

Ironically, a name or photo of an innocent person will not elicit any contempt of court which it will do if it is the murderers names or photos being distributed.

I am not surprised Boy B's family have had to go into hiding, I think any sympathy for the parents evaporated when the father insulted and disrespected the court and Ana's parents.

Are we allowed to discuss the rumours of the backgrounds of the murderers ?

I agree 10o%. With social media it is incredibly hard to keep these anonymity laws in place, especially in such high profile cases like this. Kids killing kids. It’s absolutely horrific. The accused’s identity’s can spread like wildfire among twitter and Facebook etc and it is more hassle than it’s worth trying to arrest every Single person who leaks any details, I’m sure the Gardaí have enough to deal with without having to track every social media user that posts a retweet. These boys have been found guilty, they deserve no anonymity IMO.

 

[TaylorCallum]

This whole case is just heartbreaking. I read Conor Gallgher's in-depth article on it and it was one of the best pieces of true crime journalism I've ever read, such a sad and disturbing story. Rest in peace Ana.

 

[Charlot123]

I think boy B did not expect that the encounter between boy A and Ana would end up in murder, but he understood it would be a rape. He had the chance to leave, but stayed to watch. What is degree of his direct involvement in Ana's murder? No one can tell, I guess. He is probably very nice and harmless one-on-one, but can be easily instigated in a group, and in this lies his main danger.

From the standpoint of Ana's parents, they lost their first (did they adopt more? I think, not, but it is not quite clear), beautiful child to two juveniles who considered Ana expendable. (It is obvious from the interview of boy B who called her "a weirdo". ) These boys were interested in sadistic raping of someone (I don't know about murder), and they chose the easiest prey.

Thus ended the life of a child who was adopted from Siberia.

As I have worked with international adoptees, I presume that Ana was probably adopted from an orphanage, meaning, she overcame a lot of adversity in her early life. And she struggled later, but she had a loving family, who now lost their child to a brutal murder. I feel unbelievably sorry for them.

I think the community is so angry with the boys, with this senseless loss, that the result of the trial is obvious. Without boy B, boy A would have not been emboldened to invite Ana out himself. Both are guilty.

But I expect there will be a certain difference in the length of the terms.

ETA. I think the feelings of boy A are complex. He was attracted to Ana, maybe even obsessed with her, and hated himself and her, because he, a popular boy, had fallen for a social outcast. I think his phrase "I want to kill Ana" month earlier described his feelings. It is very hard for me to tell if the murder was totally premeditated, or his rage easily turned murderous. (He was scared and maybe upset the next day, so maybe not quite planned?). But he planned to sadistically rape her, with that kit and mask. Scary kid.

 

[L White]

From the standpoint of Ana's parents, they lost their first (did they adopt more? I think, not, but it is not quite clear),

They have a bio son.

 

[Charlot123]

They have a bio son.

Their loss is irreplaceable, but it is comforting to know that there is another child in the family. How horrible it might be for him, though, he lost his only sibling.

 

[Charlot123]

It doesn't really matter who Boy A or Boy B are, who their families are or what they're saying on Facebook IMO. They are in prison where they belong.

This case is incredibly sad. It might be the worst one I've ever read about. Ana won't be forgotten - I just wish it was for her smile or her future achievements and not the absolutely horrific way she died. I sincerely hope they tear down that house and build something in her memory that is dedicated to caring and loving one another.

I agree. I don't care how they look like. Probably, nice and clean, but to me, it is easier to imagine boy A in his horrible mask.