Found Deceased UT - MacKenzie "Kenzie" Lueck, 23, Salt Lake City, 17 June 2019 #18 *ARREST*

[crhedBngr]

In the podcast, I believe it was Ashlee who said she thought ML went to the park because of a threat or extortion. She didn't elaborate.

Does anyone have any similar thoughts?

Wow. Now THAT is interesting. Hadn't thought of this before.

If LE releases the text messages, we'll find out more. I say "if", because we are not entitled to know the text messages' content.

JMVHO.

 

[indicolite22]

MOO not a SD date. SDs are supposed to be safe, rich, kind and generous. Meeting at 3 am in a Kia at a park in sweats doesn't match.

What would motivate a young woman to meet a guy at 3am in a park on her way from the airport?

 

[Ragnarok]

What would motivate a young woman to meet a guy at 3am in a park on her way from the airport?

Doubtful we will know before text messages released. One person's theory is pretty much as good as another till release.

 

[Puzzled25]

Thank you for a ton of info that I haven't read before. My reasoning in favor of a SB/SD type of relationship was that she did not have to meet someone at 3am in a park unless she needed money. I can't imagine why she woudn't prefer going home from the airport. Not sure if all SDs are rich and old.

Not sure I'd consider 40's old

In general, college students who are looking an SB relationship are looking for the benefits of dating a successful guy that could include higher end dating, trips, mentorship, or a monthly allowance. It looks a lot like normal dating and is ongoing. If she wanted that, she could easily have found it with a monthly allowance and based on her posts, she seemed to understand that although she said she was looking for something online, which is usually something like sending regular texts.

MOO not a SD date. SDs are supposed to be safe, rich, kind and generous. Meeting at 3 am in a Kia at a park in sweats doesn't match.

Exactly. You wear sweats to meet someone you know well. Maybe a friend, maybe someone your dating.

What would motivate a young woman to meet a guy at 3am in a park on her way from the airport?

She wouldn't, unless it was someone she trusted and knew.

 

[Anance]

Yes, I wonder when ML began to think she'd made a mistake or that she was in trouble.

I hear you. A bizarre chain of events got her to his house. Per Occam's Razor, she probably did everything willingly until it was too late. We just can't accept AA's successful duplicity. Hopefully, the trial provides full explanations for our questions so we can increase our knowledge of ML's victimology.

 

[indicolite22]

Not sure I'd consider 40's old

In general, college students who are looking an SB relationship are looking for the benefits of dating a successful guy that could include higher end dating, trips, mentorship, or a monthly allowance. It looks a lot like normal dating and is ongoing. If she wanted that, she could easily have found it with a monthly allowance and based on her posts, she seemed to understand that although she said she was looking for something online, which is usually something like sending regular texts.

Exactly. You wear sweats to meet someone you know well. Maybe a friend, maybe someone your dating.

She wouldn't, unless it was someone she trusted and knew.

Someone posted on one of the previous threads that the ratio between SBs and SDs in Utah was 5 to 1. That could mean that it isn't as easy to get a generous SD. Anyway, if AA wasn't on the sites, then the SD connection isn't relevant in this case.

If she knew him well and dated him, wouldn't she know where he lived? How come her friends didn't know about the relationship?

 

[Elle*Bee]

OT - thanks, mods, for deleting my three posts from last night. For some reason, although I selected the multi-quote feature, it put each quote in its own reply and would not allow me to type my comment. I don’t know if it was an iPad issue or browser issue. Thanks for cleaning up my mess!

 

[10ofRods]

What would motivate a young woman to meet a guy at 3am in a park on her way from the airport?

A desire to use the "studio" at his house, after being incommunicado while at home.

MOO.

My interpretation of all the women his former roommates said were in and out of his room, staying entirely inside his room (sometimes for days) is that he had cameras in that room too. With his new, larger digs he had even more cameras (13?) inside the house. Now I can't remember where the camera info comes from, it was way back there in an early thread.

At any rate, some of the websites they were both using are getting to where better pix and videos are the norm.

 

[Puzzled25]

Someone posted on one of the previous threads that the ratio between SBs and SDs in Utah was 5 to 1. That could mean that it isn't as easy to get a generous SD. Anyway, if AA wasn't on the sites, then the SD connection isn't relevant in this case.

If she knew him well and dated him, wouldn't she know where he lived? How come her friends didn't know about the relationship?

I saw that post but that ratio in Utah is very misleading (I'd guess it includes any female who ever signed up, women looking for something online, etc) ... attractive college students with realistic expectations would have no problem finding an ongoing relationship that doesn't involve meeting in a park at 3 AM. But, since there is no evidence that AA was on the site(s), its not relevant. I'd think there would be a screen shot floating out there if he was.

Agreed, she would know where he lived which suggests to me they were going to meet at Hatch Park and go somewhere else although its still a mystery. As for not telling her friends, people compartmentalize their lives for all sorts of reasons and I can think of a lot of reasons why she wouldn't tell her friends -- particularly if it was just something casual. Somewhere out there, there was a report that one of her friends had warned her about them.

A desire to use the "studio" at his house, after being incommunicado while at home.

MOO.

My interpretation of all the women his former roommates said were in and out of his room, staying entirely inside his room (sometimes for days) is that he had cameras in that room too. With his new, larger digs he had even more cameras (13?) inside the house. Now I can't remember where the camera info comes from, it was way back there in an early thread.

At any rate, some of the websites they were both using are getting to where better pix and videos are the norm.

Yes, but ... there are some really good photographers here in Utah that are always looking to take pics. In general, its a trade for portfolios and almost always outside since we're a big outside state. Its pretty normal to be walking around downtown SLC or hiking here and seeing people taking portfolio shots. He's not remotely in that league and she would know that. I don't see video's on most dating sites here it Utah.

 

[10ofRods]

I saw that post but that ratio in Utah is very misleading (I'd guess it includes any female who ever signed up, women looking for something online, etc) ... attractive college students with realistic expectations would have no problem finding an ongoing relationship that doesn't involve meeting in a park at 3 AM. But, since there is no evidence that AA was on the site(s), its not relevant. I'd think there would be a screen shot floating out there if he was.

Agreed, she would know where he lived which suggests to me they were going to meet at Hatch Park and go somewhere else although its still a mystery. As for not telling her friends, people compartmentalize their lives for all sorts of reasons and I can think of a lot of reasons why she wouldn't tell her friends -- particularly if it was just something casual. Somewhere out there, there was a report that one of her friends had warned her about them.



Yes, but ... there are some really good photographers here in Utah that are always looking to take pics. In general, its a trade for portfolios and almost always outside since we're a big outside state. Its pretty normal to be walking around downtown SLC or hiking here and seeing people taking portfolio shots. He's not remotely in that league and she would know that. I don't see video's on most dating sites here it Utah.

I think you're missing my point about the nature of videos on online sites, these days. They are certainly not taken in public nor by anyone who wants to retain an identity as a "professional photographer." The ability to stream and not just film is at issue as well.

He had a great setup for streaming and roommates say he went psycho if they moved any furniture in the shared area, when he had shared housing. Now, in his own house, he could have kept the whole place as if it were a set. That's what youtube influencers do with parts of their house.

The number of my students who think they're going to hit the jackpot with one or another angle (off of Instagram or Youtube) is alarmingly large. Alarming to me, anyway. IIRC, KM had two instagram accounts and was trying to upload regular content.

He could have misrepresented himself as far more professional than he was, obviously. Perhaps claiming he was responsible for the one photoshopped photo of him (with the smoke).

 

[Puzzled25]

I think you're missing my point about the nature of videos on online sites, these days. They are certainly not taken in public nor by anyone who wants to retain an identity as a "professional photographer." The ability to stream and not just film is at issue as well.

He had a great setup for streaming and roommates say he went psycho if they moved any furniture in the shared area, when he had shared housing. Now, in his own house, he could have kept the whole place as if it were a set. That's what youtube influencers do with parts of their house.

The number of my students who think they're going to hit the jackpot with one or another angle (off of Instagram or Youtube) is alarmingly large. Alarming to me, anyway. IIRC, KM had two instagram accounts and was trying to upload regular content.

He could have misrepresented himself as far more professional than he was, obviously. Perhaps claiming he was responsible for the one photoshopped photo of him (with the smoke).

I get your point now, although it doesn't involve any of the sites I use It could explain what his roommates were reporting. I suppose it could also explain his source of cash. That being said, it's my impression that camgirls are usually in Eastern Europe.

But, that's very different than Instagram famous. Those who are looking for 100,000 followers usually do have photos taken in public, some by people looking to build a portfolio photographer. They may have unrealistic expectations but there are a couple of women I have dated who have developed enough followers to make a decent living.

 

[Whiteorchids]

I think you're missing my point about the nature of videos on online sites, these days. They are certainly not taken in public nor by anyone who wants to retain an identity as a "professional photographer." The ability to stream and not just film is at issue as well.

He had a great setup for streaming and roommates say he went psycho if they moved any furniture in the shared area, when he had shared housing. Now, in his own house, he could have kept the whole place as if it were a set. That's what youtube influencers do with parts of their house.

The number of my students who think they're going to hit the jackpot with one or another angle (off of Instagram or Youtube) is alarmingly large. Alarming to me, anyway. IIRC, KM had two instagram accounts and was trying to upload regular content.

He could have misrepresented himself as far more professional than he was, obviously. Perhaps claiming he was responsible for the one photoshopped photo of him (with the smoke).

I think if he was doing that by now people would have come forward to media to expose what was going on there I mean after all he’s going to be behind bars a long time so nothing to fear in that sense. I would think someone would have loved to sell that story to Radar online and others that pay for stories. If anything going on with AA’s cameras I think he had voyeuristic disorder.

Voyeuristic Disorder - Psychiatric Disorders - Merck Manuals Professional Edition

 

[indicolite22]

Agreed, she would know where he lived which suggests to me they were going to meet at Hatch Park and go somewhere else although its still a mystery.

If she knew where he lived, picking her up at his home would have been closer to the airport than the park. Was anything still open at 3am?

As for not telling her friends, people compartmentalize their lives for all sorts of reasons and I can think of a lot of reasons why she wouldn't tell her friends -- particularly if it was just something casual. Somewhere out there, there was a report that one of her friends had warned her about them.

If I'm not mistaken it was a male friend that warned her. If she really did know AA well, she must have ignored that friend's advice.

Was there any speculation that AA might have been dealing drugs?

 

[Puzzled25]

If she knew where he lived, picking her up at his home would have been closer to the airport than the park. Was anything still open at 3am?

If I'm not mistaken it was a male friend that warned her. If she really did know AA well, she must have ignored that friend's advice.

Was there any speculation that AA might have been dealing drugs?

There is a 24 hour IHOP in Woods Cross, which is north of North Salt Lake. It would be nicer than anything by the airport or downtown open at that time of night.

So, I could see a conversation between two people who knew each other that went along the lines of (ML) I'm hungry, lets go get some food, (AA) I'm up in NSL with some friends. Wanna meet halfway? (ML) sounds good but ... after a delayed flight and a long time waiting for luggage ML gets to the park and says I'm tired, lets just go home.

As for the drugs .... I can speculate. Certainly he wasn't making enough working as a call center tech to make a house payment, and still live.

 

[BradB]

Do we know how AA was making money other than the rental air bb? I'm just curious as to how he was able to live pretty decent without consistent income?

 

[10ofRods]

I get your point now, although it doesn't involve any of the sites I use It could explain what his roommates were reporting. I suppose it could also explain his source of cash. That being said, it's my impression that camgirls are usually in Eastern Europe.

But, that's very different than Instagram famous. Those who are looking for 100,000 followers usually do have photos taken in public, some by people looking to build a portfolio photographer. They may have unrealistic expectations but there are a couple of women I have dated who have developed enough followers to make a decent living.

There are different kinds of camgirls. The American version are calling themselves "egirls" (which has a couple of different meanings, but recently murdered Bianca Devins is referred to as one, and may have referred to herself as one).

Camgirl, to me, involves streaming what is essentially a personal *advertiser censored* experience (and yes, I do have students who do this or do online stripping). But introductions and interaction videos are also a thing.

Anyway, there's no evidence that KL was a camgirl. But she might have sought a streaming place for a seeking.com contact.

I too know women who have made or currently make a living out of their online work. It is not always what I would call "sex work" either.

 

[Seattle1]

Do we know how AA was making money other than the rental air bb? I'm just curious as to how he was able to live pretty decent without consistent income?

Ignoring AA's own claims, it's been reported by msm that AA worked for Dell until July 2019, and Goldman Sachs before that.

I believe AA had at least 2 years of consistent income from the above employers.

 

[Puzzled25]

Ignoring AA's own claims, it's been reported by msm that AA worked for Dell until July 2019, and Goldman Sachs before that.

I believe AA had at least 2 years of consistent income from the above employers.

Yes but the job he worked at at Dell was one that typically pays around $15 an hour. I suspect he made something like that when he worked for a contractor at the Goldman building in slc. You can live on $30,000 a year in slc but I wouldn't think that would be enough income to make the house payment on a $300,000 house which looks to be the approximate value of his home.

Anyway, there's no evidence that KL was a camgirl. But she might have sought a streaming place for a seeking.com contact.

FWIW, I've never seen anyone on seeking who was looking for something involving streaming. I think it may be prohibited and cause someone to be blocked. On the other hand, I'll sometimes get emails through Tinder for women looking for streaming customers. I don't know a lot about it.

 

[SoCalGirl]

So, I could see a conversation between two people who knew each other that went along the lines of (ML) I'm hungry, lets go get some food, (AA) I'm up in NSL with some friends. Wanna meet halfway? (ML) sounds good but ... after a delayed flight and a long time waiting for luggage ML gets to the park and says I'm tired, lets just go home.

But theirs wasn't a spur of the moment conversation. They'd been texting each other earlier, as early as 6:00 pm, which would have been before she even left for the airport in LA. Unless their earlier texts were not "meet up" texts, and then they decided later to go out and eat - seems like a reach to me, but then I think of all our theories as "reaches," but one of those theories actually did happen because she did meet him and he did murder her.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Hi everyone! I took a break from this case, and I'm catching up once again. Lol!

All of the unknown facts will come forth at the proper time, and place like it usually does. Until then, we pretty much have to guess what happened.

I continue to believe they had an online relationship only until the one, and last face to face meeting.

Imo, I can't reconcile them having a face to face relationship before the fatal encounter.

It makes no sense to me anyway... even if he didn't meet her at the airport, which is strange within itself, that he would meet her at a dark park instead of having the Lyft driver bring KL directly to his home. Neither AA nor KL had anything to hide since they both were free to see anyone they wanted to see.

They didn't have to sneak around. Yet this is exactly what AA seem to do when he secreted KL into his home.

Neither had a steady relationship with another person so it's not like either one had to be secretive getting her into his home sight unseen as if they were having some type of forbidden affair.

I know others think AA didn't premeditate the murder of KL, but all I see are premeditation red flags dropping every where in this case.

1. AA made sure he did not pick up KL at the airport knowing he would be seen picking her up, and leaving with KL in his vehicle.

2. AA made sure the Lyft driver brought KL to the park instead of bringing her to his home which would be the more logical thing to do. Even more logical if they had met face to face before. So why didnt he do this simple thing? Imo, because he did not want the Lyft driver to tell LE he dropped her off at AAs home. Imo

3. AA had already asked a contractor to make a soundproof room with hooks hanging from ceiling. Even though the contractor refused he easily could have mounted the hooks himself. Imo, this is a glimpse into his sexual sadist deviancy mindset.

4. AA was known to lie, and embellish greatly who he really was/is. AA was a chameleon. One laying in wait for his targeted prey to fall into his trap. KL. Imo

All of it from the time she touched down shows he wanted to make sure there was no familiar linkage known connecting him that he was going to be with KL in his home that morning. Yet she was a beautiful young woman any guy would be proud to be seen with or coming to his home.

Imo, He purposefully made sure to distance himself from his victim.. Why would he do such calculating premeditated things if the meeting with KL was on the up, and up with no premeditation of the grave harm, and murder that was to come?

Imo, if this was a spur of the moment murderous act none of what he did beforehand to set it up would have come into play before it even happened, but it DID.

Although he made mistakes ( like most murderers wind up doing) thinking he could convince LE the last time he had contact with KL was through online communication only, he took steps to distance himself from ever being with KL BEFORE it even happened.

Imo AA already knew before it all began how it was going to end.

Jmho