CANADA - Lucas Fowler & Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #6

[violet67]

I am not going to buy this book. Even if it's for sale for $1. I'm just not going to contribute to this so-called father.
His son is got mental health issues and is on a murdering Rampage in Canada. There's obviously lots of trouble that the boys figure they've gone through in their lives and I will not contribute financially to a drunken man who never took care of his kid. All he wants is his 15 minutes of fame.

no...this is a painful glimpse into mental illness. it explains a lot about bryer but i think we already knew there was a lot of dysfunction going on. I find it horrible that the dailymail chose to exploit this.

 

[Sillybilly]

You are hired to write safety news briefings to line the highways of Canada to warn unsuspecting tourists and locals of current events!

How do you propose they line the highways all the way from Lower Mainland BC up to the Alaska Highway.

Global BC and BC1 tv news station broadcast this incident every 1/2 hour for days. If tourists or locals did not have access to tv or internet, how do you propose they could have been warned there was a public safety issue?

Thompson Citizen linked earlier has an article about the first train since 2015 track damage bringing grain to the Churchill port, and a ship carrying that grain.

The polar bear sighting, 200km north of Fox Lake, could be to check along the train route, in case they hopped on and off such a grain carrying train.

These trains may go slow, as a man followed the first train on his bike.

There are also railway bunkers for the rail workers to lay over. Train slows down without stopping and the worker simply hops off.

 

[AddyFinch]

That part is Rupert Murdoch’s Daily Mail at “work”.

A rich Aussie at that

 

[scrappinkat]

Hmm. What kind of bigger evil? Could they have been exposed to some sort of criminal ring through their online gaming? Does Canada have any militias like the U.S. does

Major drug rings yes. Ones that result in kidnapping, missing people and point blank murders.

Not to mention the pressure of having a tourist killed and that tourist turns out to be the son of a Police Chief. Add the pressure of another unrelated death somewhat close in location, the start of tourist season, media coverage of the wanted fugitive at large - it’s possible that tunnel vision developed in an effort to prevent hysteria.

 

[AddyFinch]

I don't want to sound like the Canadian Tourist Board, but please don't let this dissuade you from visiting the beautiful lands of Canada. Banff-Jasper is an amazing place and there is nothing like it in the world.

Yep..what he said

 

[derbywinner]

It all defies logic, doesn't it? I find it strange that some bearded fellow was seen in some kind of altercation with the murdered couple, and that a bearded murderer (Wisenand) entered Canada on the lam and was being sought. That whole story fell off the radar unless I missed something. Of course, the RCMP haven't provided any details so that doesn't help. Nothing about this story makes any sense, least of all their apparent route.

I think the worst of this is because the public has been provided so little details. LE wants us to be on the look out for 2 young men; who might have, or not might have killed someone or people. As the public I want to know why they think this. I want to know that because they took the kind Professor's vehicle that is why he is dead so I don't question everything else, especially the killing of the young couple. Like yourself <modsnip> happened to the bearded guy that LE doesn't want to discuss.

 

[Trooper]

The trick to figure out the “why,” is to look at all the killers like this that have come before.

Why did those guys do it?

We don’t really have enough information to ascertain the specifics, but my guess is that we’re dealing with a couple angry guys who want to punish the world.

They may be out for some sort of sick adventure, and the killing is a necessary part of that.

There’s always a reason, but it’s never a good one.

For me, the big question is, why have they stopped killing? was three enough? did that assuage the rage, or was that the agreed number pre-spree, or ( and forgive me for this ) was a woman not counted, and the plan was for two? . why stop? .

Why only kill three when one can, logistically, kill a lot more, if killing is the name of the game. ..

Having murdered three people, what would be the point of stopping? why not go on, let it all hang out, go for broke. ..

The answer for me is, they are dead. Dead and cold somewhere, being eaten by a cranky bear. Of course, they could have run out of ammo, but why confine oneself to shooting targets? What would make them stop the journey they were on, and take another tack? . What was the magic inherent in the number three?

Having murdered three, what now, then?

 

[SunVenus]

Thank you for correcting the autospell error of Aspergers! Kudos.

I'm not sure if you followed the Lanza case but the non-professional discussion of mental health issues that was done both with and without the assistance of mental health professionals associated with the case was hugely educational and frankly therapeutic to the community. The community heard from people with many points of view and this process was incredibly helpful to understanding Lanza and processing the horrific event. Believe it or not much of this was done without mental health professionals as social workers, ministers, priests and rabbis as well as teachers and guidance counselors and lawyers all stepped in with different views and shared incredible wisdom and knowledge. All were respected and all were valued in the discussion.

Many in the community had little understanding of the mental health issues associated with Lanza but did have stories to share about interactions with Lanza and it was only by discussing the issues and asking questions without 'judgment' that a broader understanding of Lanza ultimately emerged. I don't think you have to be a professional with a certification in the diagnosis of Spectrum Disorders to discuss mental health issues or possible contributing factors.

If you personally have a professional POV then by all means share it and let others benefit from your expertise. The goal of any discussion here wasn't to tag DSM number/s on BS or his father but to take a look at BS history and background as there is certainly much in those areas to discuss based on MSM reporting IMO.

In the same vein, there has been a good amount of reporting on various issues contributing to a psych profile of the 2 suspects in this case (in particular BS) and this being WS discussion of these issues is on the table.

Speculation is one thing, but some people have been automatically calling out certain traits (interest in gaming, socially awkward, interest in guns, etc.) as red flags. They can be, in SOME cases. But for millions of "normal" people, they also have those traits.

I did follow Lanza's case, quite closely. I understand what you are trying to say. My issue is with people throwing out a diagnosis without being either a) a mental health professional or b) not ever once having met BS.

I wasn't trying to call you out personally. I myself am on the spectrum, and have several family members and my ex-husband who are all on the spectrum. One thing we say in the ASD community of professionals & those affected by it is "if you've met one person with autism, then you have met ONE person with autism".

There are many factors to look at in this case, in any case. But ASD is getting-- in my opinion-- demonized these days, and too many people are marginalizing ASD people. The term "Aspergers" is even used as a pejorative in certain communities, like incels and PvP gamers. Perhaps I am just sensitive to it.

Anyway @afitzy, my apologies if I didn't come across well. No insult was intended.

 

[Curious Me]

Nurture vs Nature is still an ongoing topic sometimes in determining how someone ends up a killer. It doesn't excuse BS or any murderer if they had a crappy childhood, but I don't think we need to disregard the influences like parental alienation or neglect that might go on in the making of an angry adult that decides to go out and kill. JMO though.

 

[JuneBug67]

Most cities in the US have LE, I guess it is different in Canada. But does Canada not have some type of highway patrol?

Most cities in Canada also have their own forces. There are zero cities in the northern reaches of BC. I'm sure they have highway patrol up there, but those highways are beautiful, quiet, long stretches of nothing between very small communities. There is no guarantee there will be a patrol car anywhere nearby.

Canadian policing kind of looks like this, relative to the US, which might help Americans visualize the coverage:

Cities - have their own forces, same as US cities.
2 of the more populous provinces also have their own forces - Ontario (OPP) and Quebec (SQ), analogous to state troopers
RCMP is the federal force, comparable to FBI
OT, but CSIS is analogous to CIA

Only 10% of the country lives farther than 100 miles from the US border, so there are vast northern areas to police with huge geography and small, very spread out populations. Into those voids step the RCMP, in addition to their other FBI-like role across the country, in all provinces except Ontario and Quebec, where the provincial forces have jurisdiction. Hope that might kind of help make things clearer.

 

[Sillybilly]

There’s really no comparison to Canada’s desolate and lowly populated northern parts of the provinces and the US. But yes, the RCMP also conducts road patrols.

ETA
Maybe to put it into perspective - (per google)
Canada - 9.985 million sq km, population 37.06 million (2018)
United States - 9.843 million sq km, population 327.2 million (2018)

Not to mention that approx 75% of the population of BC live in the Lower Mainland.

 

[srper2]

Yep..what he said

I met a Canadian while trekking to Everst base camp and he talked about his life in a cold environment every night beside the yak dung stove and was the best publicity for Canada ever!

 

[afitzy]

Are you now adding to your long list of criticisms, which now includes the French of the RCMP officer giving briefings, that less effort is going into this because two of the people killed weren’t Canadian? Or are you saying that they deserve more effort than Canadians?

No, was simply asking the question about RCMP air resources in the Northern Provinces. Wondered if air resources were available and why they weren't deployed to get to the scene quickly?

My recollection based on the interview of the road worker is that it took 3-4 hrs for RCMP to arrive at the scene during which time it was maintained by a Road Worker. Seems that securing the scene quickly is typically the goal of law enforcement. We don't know where RCMP was driving from to get to the site but they clearly were not close by.

I was curious if given the vastness of the northern provinces that a helicopter didn't exist to allow quicker access to the scene? It just seems logical that given the distances involved that going by air would make sense and arriving at the scene in a timely fashion would minimize scene contamination. We already know that someone accessed the scene in advance of the road worker and took photographs of the scene and the victims.

I would think that RCMP would want to quickly access any scene of violent crime no matter what the citizenship of the victims.

 

[ktm44]

Got it, Canda is BIG. But the question about the helicopter was a good one? No helicopters in the North to go check out a murder scene of 2 foreign nationals?

The detachment itself would not have a helicopter or pilots and it would be costly and difficult to have a charter company at their disposal.

There was no way for the RCMP to know that the two deceased were foreign nationals or Canadian citizens when the call was made and even upon arrival, the victims seemed to have no identification and it doesn't sound like their vehicle was properly registered. I suspect a great deal of time was wasted tracking down the owner of the Alberta plates and registration while trying to find the identity of the victims. Not being snarky, but why does a foreign national warrant greater concern than the Canadian that was also killed?

There are areas where I think the RCMP may have dropped the ball but I don't feel that idenification of the victims was handled poorly at all. Typically, foreign travellers either enter the country in the own vehicle or rent one upon arrival. If personal identification wasn't found at the scene, the vehicle license plate would give police a good starting point.

 

[HopeForTheBest]

This story becomes sadder with every word for every person in it. I’m in the U.S. and had no idea about the wilds of Canada. To our Canadian friends, I so admire the resiliency of your police and people. To all, I’m sorry for the broken hearts and lives across Canada, Australia, and America as a result. Please, everyone, take care and take heart.

 

[BearCatSafari]

I think the worst of this is because the public has been provided so little details. LE wants us to be on the look out for 2 young men; who might have, or not might have killed someone or people. As the public I want to know why they think this. I want to know that because they took the kind Professor's vehicle that is why he is dead so I don't question everything else, especially the killing of the young couple. Like yourself <modsnip> happened to the bearded guy that LE doesn't want to discuss.

I may be wrong here but I believe these kinds of things get treated like a need to know basis. And providing intimate details can compromise an investigation and/or trial.

 

[MassGuy]

For me, the big question is, why have they stopped killing? was three enough? did that assuage the rage, or was that the agreed number pre-spree, or ( and forgive me for this ) was a woman not counted, and the plan was for two? . why stop? .

Why only kill three when one can, logistically, kill a lot more, if killing is the name of the game. ..

Having murdered three people, what would be the point of stopping? why not go on, let it all hang out, go for broke. ..

The answer for me is, they are dead. Dead and cold somewhere, being eaten by a cranky bear. Of course, they could have run out of ammo, but why confine oneself to shooting targets? What would make them stop the journey they were on, and take another tack? . What was the magic inherent in the number three?

Having murdered three, what now, then?

I think it’s possible that something went awry, and they found themselves stranded.

They could certainly be dead, but I think they’ll wait until the last moment.

 

[afitzy]

Is this a question about why helicopters weren't used to take RCMP officers to a murder scene?

Yes. Seems like speed is impt and time is of the essence with two dead people.

 

[scrappinkat]

For me, the big question is, why have they stopped killing? was three enough? Having murdered three people, what would be the point of stopping? why not go on, let it all hang out, go for broke?

Maybe they never really started killing.

They are merely suspects in Fowler and Deese, not even charged. Their deaths happened early in the morning of July 15. At this time details are to sketchy to be saying they killed Fowler and Deese.

The charge for LD is second degree murder. He most likely died July 19th. Based on how he died it wasn’t premeditated. Then right away they run. Out of panic and fear I would guess at the enormity of what just happened between them and LD.

 

[derbywinner]

Hmm. What kind of bigger evil? Could they have been exposed to some sort of criminal ring through their online gaming? Does Canada have any militias like the U.S. does i.e. the Michigan Militia in the woods of the U.P.?

A bigger evil to me = someone who possibly is able to pull this off and implicate other people. I'm not being delusional. Do I think there is a chance these guys did it, absolutely. But why. They were handed a truck and camper and none of the "oh they only had so much money because they worked at Walmart" doesn't buy the theory they were poor. That house that KM's family has is worth a lot of money. They wouldn't let their son go without money or supplies on his little look for work vacation. They possibly supplied the truck and camper. Their insurance is screwed now and they won't recoup that loss. We got to think of the big picture here.