OH - 9 killed + Gunman, 16 injured, Mass Shooting, Oregon District, Dayton, 4 Aug 2019

[Gardenista]

Dayton gunman was “slightly ostracized” after threats against students, former classmate says

 

[x_files]

Exactly. It seems like every one of these mass shooters has a documented history of threats and violence.

If you make it harder for them to obtain weapons, you can make a dent in the overall number of events, and the amount of people killed in each one.

That doesn’t get the root of the problem (people who want to use mass violence to make a statement in the first place), but I think it has the potential to have a very real effect.

What bothers me is that people think there is one simple solution. The solutions that are proposed most often though, will not stop this from happening.

You will never stop this completely. You can only hope to save some lives.

There's no simple solution because it has many underlying issues.
How do we prevent and help those that feel helpless and will feel that mas shooting/suicide is the only option?

 

[Gardenista]

Not an incel

Ex-girlfriend cites red flags in breakup with Dayton shooter

 

[Doghairrules]

Exactly. It seems like every one of these mass shooters has a documented history of threats and violence.

If you make it harder for them to obtain weapons, you can make a dent in the overall number of events, and the amount of people killed in each one.

That doesn’t get the root of the problem (people who want to use mass violence to make a statement in the first place), but I think it has the potential to have a very real effect.

What bothers me is that people think there is one simple solution. The solutions that are proposed most often though, will not stop this from happening.

You will never stop this completely. You can only hope to save some lives.

This definitely needs a multi-pronged approach, but we don't even seem to be able to do a one-pronged approach. I wish they would let regular citizens with no political ambitions sit down and figure out an overarching strategy, starting with better mental health support for individuals exhibiting these traits (beginning in early childhood), more support for their families especially as they age into adulthood, restricted access to weapons, and probably a few hundred other things.

 

[MassGuy]

There's no simple solution because it has many underlying issues.
How do we prevent and help those that feel helpless and will feel that mas shooting/suicide is the only option?

Absolutely. It’s a complex problem.

It’s something that is ingrained in all of us at this point.

We know that mass shooting happen, and the people who perpetrate them know the effect that they have.

They know that their name will live on, long after they have committed their atrocities.

They achieve something in death, that they could not accomplish in life.

They become somebody (even though that’s simply not true, and when you’re dead you’re dead).

And if they don’t die, they live to experience the effect of what they have “accomplished.”

It’s so sick.

 

[Doghairrules]

Not an incel

Ex-girlfriend cites red flags in breakup with Dayton shooter

From the article:
Police have not discussed any possible motive for the shooting, but Ms. Johnson said that as far as she knew, he liked his sister, Megan. Ms. Johnson never met her, but said Connor never talked negatively about her. It was his parents he didn’t like, Ms. Johnson said.

And there you have it. Sigh.

 

[margarita25]

Absolutely. It’s a complex problem.

It’s something that is ingrained in all of us at this point.

We know that mass shooting happen, and the people who perpetrate them know the effect that they have.

They know that their name will live on, long after they have committed their atrocities.

They achieve something in death, that they could not accomplish in life.

They become somebody (even though that’s simply not true, and when you’re dead you’re dead).

And if they don’t die, they live to experience the effect of what they have “accomplished.”

It’s so sick.

As far as their names living on, which as we know pertains to the aspect of “glorification” which is often a factor in their motivations, I couldn’t tell you the name of half these shooters, and that’s even with me being “plugged into” these things. Yes I remember some of their names, but these guys need to know that memories fade. Their “notoriety” imo won’t last long. They are not unique, as more and more shootings unfold (not to mention the attempt at minimization on the behalf of LE and MSM as far as naming them publicly).

I guess what I’m trying to say if this is the motivator to some, this element is diminishing imo. They may be remembered by some, but certainly not by all. I don’t even remember all their names and I follow these cases closely and have been for a long time.

 

[MassGuy]

As far as their names living on, which as we know pertains to the aspect of “glorification” which is often a factor in their motivations, I couldn’t tell you the name of half these shooters, and that’s even with me being “plugged into” these things. Yes I remember some of their names, but these guys need to know that memories fade. Their “notoriety” imo won’t last long. They are not unique, as more and more shootings unfold (not to mention the attempt at minimization on the behalf of LE and MSM as far as naming them publicly).

I guess what I’m trying to say if this is the motivator to some, this element is diminishing imo. They may be remembered by some, but certainly not by all. I don’t even remember all their names and I follow these cases closely and have been for a long time.

You’re right. We forget.

The reality is apparently lost on these people though.

 

[margarita25]

One thing that concerns me is that those who “are” motivated by these factors of glorification and notoriety, their approach may be to try to top the other shooter, more casualties, etc. This aspect in itself presents a scary picture of possibly increased casualties if there motivation is indeed notoriety.

Now put that against the quicker and quicker response time, increased preparedness and trainings, this could help possibly to offset this.

Here’s another thing, and I’ve mentioned this in other threads:

So far these guys most of the time commit suicide, are neutralized, or are arrested. One of those three. My fear is that one of these days the shooter might really want to live, and gets away. Then you’ve got a serial mass shooter on your hands who is not apprehended. Kind of like Serial Killer on the loose meets Beltway-Malvo & Seminole shooter meets Mass Shooter. This may sound implausible, but I do think it’s a possibility that could or might happen one day, knock on wood. If that’s the case, then now there’s a terrorist on the loose. The resulting Man Hunt would be of immeasurable proportions.

 

[rsd1200]

That’s not at all surprising.

This almost never comes out of nowhere (if it ever does). There is an escalating pattern of concerning behavior.

But, the people who knew him, around the bar areas, were very shocked, and never saw that side of him. He never shot up his school, he shot up the place where folks seemed to accept and like him.

The Pulse nightclub shooter, it was stated, iirc, that he was gay, and had visited the club on several occasions. He shot up a club that would have accepted him, when it's quite possible, because of his family's faith, they may not have.

The Vegas Shooter; He loved gambling and concerts. He shot up the very place he enjoyed, he murdered people doing what he, himself, enjoyed doing.

Just some of them that I've noticed that seem to have that similarity.

 

[MassGuy]

But, the people who knew him, around the bar areas, were very shocked, and never saw that side of him. He never shot up his school, he shot up the place where folks seemed to accept and like him.

Context is everything.

The kids he went to school with saw things that these people apparently did not.

 

[Colorado303]

I’m thinking/wondering the same things you just posted. I’m floored he was allowed back in! Gosh, talk about liability issues, man...(see my post on this above). If my kid went to that school and I knew about this I would be IRATE.

Even if the loser behaved perfectly after readmittance (and there’s no guarantee he would) the innocent students on his “hit list” should have the right to go to school without sharing the halls with someone who threatened to rape, kill and/or skin them.

If he wrote individual apology letters to all of them in his own blood, that kid still should never have been allowed to step foot in a public school again. Let him graduate from an online program.

His HS Principal made this comment following the shooting, when asked about the hit list incident:

“When asked about the list, Chris Baker, who until recently was principal of the Bellbrook High School, pretty much confirmed the information even though he refused to get into details. “I would not dispute that information,” he said, “but I don’t want to get involved any more than just making that comment.”

The bolded section (BBM) made me come unglued. He probably didn’t want to be any more involved than necessary with the hit list incident when it happened either. I don’t think his lack of further comment is for the sake of an ongoing investigation— if it was, he would have said so. Maybe he feels bad, but IMO his desire to avoid conflict and cover his own *advertiser censored* trumps everything else. Not a great example to set for young people, and certainly not what you’d hope for from a school leader. HS principal’s should be required to have a spine.

Not saying this spineless wonder could have prevented the tragedy. Sadly, we’ll never know. But he sure as hell didn’t help.

 

[MsBetsy]

What help is available at school?

In-patient or out-patient hospital programs, alternative education which provides therapy and counselling, programs like CSI where a therapist comes to the home and works with the child, Justice Works, or other programs that help with students who have mental health disorders. I'm sure the programs are different depending on the state. Those are just the ones I know of.

Of course if the student is labelled ED, (Emotionally disturbed) and is a Special Ed student, then they are qualified for much more intensive therapy.

My point is that as long as they are a student the school can provide these programs, and once they graduate they are on their own in terms of paying for insurance or getting mental health treatment. There is only so much the school can do for troubled kids until they are left to fend for themselves. Imo

 

[enelram]

Even if the loser behaved perfectly after readmittance (and there’s no guarantee he would) the innocent students on his “hit list” should have the right to go to school without sharing the halls with someone who threatened to rape, kill and/or skin them.

If he wrote individual apology letters to all of them in his own blood, that kid still should never have been allowed to step foot in a public school again. Let him graduate from an online program.

His HS Principal made this comment following the shooting, when asked about the hit list incident:

“When asked about the list, Chris Baker, who until recently was principal of the Bellbrook High School, pretty much confirmed the information even though he refused to get into details. “I would not dispute that information,” he said, “but I don’t want to get involved any more than just making that comment.”

The bolded section (BBM) made me come unglued. He probably didn’t want to be any more involved than necessary with the hit list incident when it happened either. I don’t think his lack of further comment is for the sake of an ongoing investigation— if it was, he would have said so. Maybe he feels bad, but IMO he desire to avoid conflict and cover his own *advertiser censored* trumps everything else. Not a great example to set for young people, and certainly not what you’d hope for from a school leader. HS principal’s should be required to have a spine.

Not saying this spineless wonder could have prevented the tragedy. Sadly, we’ll never know. But he sure as hell didn’t help.

Great post-
And with the local Police claiming they have no record of his problems in HS, even though the
students claim police were involved, this is
sounding a lot like the Parkland shooter who
was also given too many passes from law enforcement and school professionals.

It's called passing the Hot Potato. How many
people will try to pass the hot potato now that they
have blood on their hands in this tragedy.

 

[FunkyMonkey]

Weapon originated in Texas.

Nothing in this shooters history that would have precluded from him obtaining a weapon.

Even if the loser behaved perfectly after readmittance (and there’s no guarantee he would) the innocent students on his “hit list” should have the right to go to school without sharing the halls with someone who threatened to rape, kill and/or skin them.

If he wrote individual apology letters to all of them in his own blood, that kid still should never have been allowed to step foot in a public school again. Let him graduate from an online program.

His HS Principal made this comment following the shooting, when asked about the hit list incident:

“When asked about the list, Chris Baker, who until recently was principal of the Bellbrook High School, pretty much confirmed the information even though he refused to get into details. “I would not dispute that information,” he said, “but I don’t want to get involved any more than just making that comment.”

The bolded section (BBM) made me come unglued. He probably didn’t want to be any more involved than necessary with the hit list incident when it happened either. I don’t think his lack of further comment is for the sake of an ongoing investigation— if it was, he would have said so. Maybe he feels bad, but IMO his desire to avoid conflict and cover his own *advertiser censored* trumps everything else. Not a great example to set for young people, and certainly not what you’d hope for from a school leader. HS principal’s should be required to have a spine.

Not saying this spineless wonder could have prevented the tragedy. Sadly, we’ll never know. But he sure as hell didn’t help.

As a teacher, my guess is that the principal did expel him and parents took it to the district level. What district says, goes. I don’t think he’s spineless necessarily, because he DID kick him out. I would look higher for the spineless person(s). MOO

 

[MsBetsy]

As a teacher, my guess is that the principal did expel him and parents took it to the district level. What district says, goes. I don’t think he’s spineless necessarily, because he DID kick him out. I would look higher for the spineless person(s). MOO

Yes, in my experience with working in schools with at-risk kids, it's actually very difficult to expel a student with threatening behavior.

It's usually a last resort, and only after all other interventions have failed.
Administrators deal with this kind of thing on a daily basis.
They may wish they can get rid of all the kids that are potentially a danger to others, but it's not that easy. Imo

 

[gngr~snap]

Stings are set up for pedophiles. Why can't they send people into these deep dark places, find the ones who seem to be extreme, and do some checking into their Junior and High School years.
We have a no fly list.
There needs to be a no buy list too.
Any person who threatened to shoot up their school, even in years past, that got the attention of the school staff or law enforcement should be on that list NOW-
EVEN if they are currently too young to purchase a weapon. They should never be able to legally buy one either.
There has to be a way to identify these monsters and plucking them out of these hate/supreme sites
shouldn't be that hard.
IMO concern only exists immediately after a mass shooting.
Every time they do and say the same thing over and over, yet do nothing. Talk the talk, then walk the walk!
They don't.
Moo

 

[x_files]

Absolutely. It’s a complex problem.

It’s something that is ingrained in all of us at this point.

We know that mass shooting happen, and the people who perpetrate them know the effect that they have.

They know that their name will live on, long after they have committed their atrocities.

They achieve something in death, that they could not accomplish in life.

They become somebody (even though that’s simply not true, and when you’re dead you’re dead).

And if they don’t die, they live to experience the effect of what they have “accomplished.”

It’s so sick.

exactly.
It's difficult to earn success or attention for good deeds, but instant infamy in 30 seconds or less. Infamy plays a huge part in it. They leave the world in fear of them.

Mass Shooters Seek 'Validation' For Their Murderous Attacks, Say Experts For DOJ | HuffPost

 

[x_files]

Even if the loser behaved perfectly after readmittance (and there’s no guarantee he would) the innocent students on his “hit list” should have the right to go to school without sharing the halls with someone who threatened to rape, kill and/or skin them.

If he wrote individual apology letters to all of them in his own blood, that kid still should never have been allowed to step foot in a public school again. Let him graduate from an online program.

His HS Principal made this comment following the shooting, when asked about the hit list incident:

“When asked about the list, Chris Baker, who until recently was principal of the Bellbrook High School, pretty much confirmed the information even though he refused to get into details. “I would not dispute that information,” he said, “but I don’t want to get involved any more than just making that comment.”

The bolded section (BBM) made me come unglued. He probably didn’t want to be any more involved than necessary with the hit list incident when it happened either. I don’t think his lack of further comment is for the sake of an ongoing investigation— if it was, he would have said so. Maybe he feels bad, but IMO his desire to avoid conflict and cover his own *advertiser censored* trumps everything else. Not a great example to set for young people, and certainly not what you’d hope for from a school leader. HS principal’s should be required to have a spine.

Not saying this spineless wonder could have prevented the tragedy. Sadly, we’ll never know. But he sure as hell didn’t help.

The HS put him and his priority to graduate over all the students on that list.
What if he shot up the school? "Oh, sorry."
Maybe the victims and their families should sue the school for brushing this off. Start holding everyone accountable that blew it off. It seems the teens were scared of him! and the school did nothing. urgh...

 

[Isabelle98]

O/T Andrew Golden was just killed in a car crash last week:

Man who committed school shooting when he was 11 dies in car crash

Maybe there's some "justice" in Nature. At least sometimes...
Nobody's crying for a dead monster.