CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #5

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oceanstarryeyes said:
By looking at that map it looks like a long walk back for a female to be walking all alone. How strange that they would separate in such an isolated place.
Click to expand...
I don't think she walked there. I'm saying if she actually disappeared before reaching Kelbaker, Hidden Hill Rd would be a great place to leave her.
 
RANCH said:
I'm not so sure about that.

In the Lisa Irwin case LE used an HRD dog to search the home with the parents permission and used the alert the dog gave to obtain a search warrant for the Irwin home.

I would think that a judge wouldn't sign a search warrant if it was an illegal search. JMO

Cadaver Dogs 'Hit' in Baby Lisa's Home
Click to expand...
I forgot about this case. Was it ever solved?
 
speaking of polygraphs- when I was a teenager I worked as a waitress in a restaurant in a little tourist town. One day the money bag was stolen before it could be deposited. Now, me being a teenager and not prone to snitch on anyone, I saw what had happened...our manager (who was a mean raging alcoholic and the owner's girlfriend) had left the money bag on a table at closing time and had gone to the bar to drink some more...one of the other waitresses took it (I was the only witness) and she went shhhhhh to me...then I promptly forgot about the whole thing.
A few weeks later, all of the employees had to take a polygraph test or be fired. Everyone of us passed, even the one who took it.
 
Plans re Dog While BT on HK Trip?
Cherwell said:
There's quite a shift in responsibility for a dog when the household is reduced to one person.
When there are two or more people at home, one can go out without any worries. If you're the only one, it's not fair to leave a dog alone for more than about three to four hours. If you're going to be out for longer, you have to make a contingency plan, eg ask a friend or neighbour to pop in and let the dog out, feed and walk if necessary. Boarding kennels is another option, but not necessarily full-time.
Click to expand...
@Cherwell :) Thanks for your post. Admiring your attentive handling of pets.
I wonder if RT & BT sometimes used doggy day care on days when they would be out of house for long stretches. Maybe that was the plan for the dog, when BT would be in HK. I saw a couple doggy day care listings online that appear to be centrally located. Just a possibility.
 
10ofRods said:
I believe that if the dogs had picked up a scent, West Valley SARS would have mentioned it and LE would mention it (so that any one out in that area could be on the lookout, knowing where the scent ended, for whatever reason). It would be an enormously important clue, not a "no evidence" found. When they concluded the search, they said 9 days of searching, no evidence of Barbara.

No scent. No beer coozie. No hat. No foot prints. Nothing.
Click to expand...

There's just nothing whatsoever to support her ever having been there, except the word of a man who went on national tv and told the world he flunked his polygraph and he was the prime suspect. This, despite the fact that LE has never said there was a crime being investigated.

I keep looking to what LE has and hasn't said r/t BT's disappearance for some guidance.
It may be helpful for us to focus solely on what LE is and isn't telling us.
I've been reviewing everything we have and haven't gotten from LE's corner.

Here's what we have:
Husband of missing 69-year-old hiker says police consider him a suspect
  • Statements re: No evidence that BT was abducted (directly refuting RB's theory)
  • Statements re: Not a single trace of BT having been found.
  • Statement that LE is "unaware" of how long RT and BT were separated before she disappeared.
  • Statement that LE "doesn't know" how far BT was from the RV at the time they became separated.
One logical explanation for the first 3 bullet points would be that BT was never at that location.

There is NO logical explanation for the last 2 bolded bullet points...if one assumes LE believes RT's version of events is true, at least.

The last 2 bullet points do make perfect sense if one assumes LE does not believe RT's account of what happened that day.
_____________________________

Then, there's this intriguing shift in LE's language, and the equally intriguing timing of it:
July 22nd - The investigation continues into the whereabouts of missing person Barbara Thomas from SBSD - Colorado River Sheriffs Department : Nixle

Through July 16th, LE's language is that there had been "no sightings" of BT.

RT gives his interview to Inside Edition on July 17th, gives his bikini and beer explanation for her disappearance, and oh, yeah, LE told him his polygraph showed he was being deceptive, but not to worry, on account of he "knows they aren't 100%" and he "hadn't slept the night before."

On the 17th and 18th, LE doesn't include their usual sentence r/t there being "no sightings" of BT in their daily update.

Then, on July 19th, the language from LE changes from "no sightings" of BT to, "no evidence of Barbara" being found in that desert.

Also noting: July 15th is the last date that LE includes the statement that "Barbara was last seen in the area of Kelbaker/Hidden Hills near the 1-40."

After that, LE merely states that they're searching in that area.

They do NOT state that it's the area where she "was last seen" in any updates after July 15.


The timing of their introduction of the word "evidence" into the status of their search is interesting, as is their dropping of the language after July 15th that she was "last seen" there.
________________________________
We also have this more recently from LE:
https://www.wlfi.com/content/news/Lafayette-mans-mother-still-missing-after-hiking-
in-the-Mojave-Desert-with-husband-524401511.html
RSABBM:
Sgt. Allison with the San Bernardino's County Sheriff's Department said they exhausted all resources looking for the 69-year-old.

"We utilized department-wide resources which includes search and rescue," said Allison. "We have hundreds of volunteers across the county that volunteer specifically for search and rescue."

Helicopters and tracking K-9's were also used in the search, but it wasn't enough.

The sheriff's department stopped looking for Barbara Thomas July 22nd. They're pursuing other leads
____________________________

I absolutely read this as LE stating they conducted a comprehensive search and satisfied themselves that she is not out there.

Why would LE go on the record with the statement that they are "pursuing other leads" if they believed she had gone lost in that location?

Rhetorical question.

I'm just pulling all these loosely-knit threads from LE, and to me, it's all leading to a rather obvious conclusion.

One which, unfortunately, we can't fully explore or discuss here.

I'm having to content myself with ongoing and spirited discussions with my main man, William of Occam.

William's thoughts fall entirely outside of WS TOS, so he's informed me that it's probably best that doesn't join our group right now.

I explained to him that's perfectly fine, because we don't need him to tell us what we already know, anyway.
Besides, he charges really outrageous consultation fees.
Dude's like a total scam artist.

JMO.
 
Last edited:
Repeating a Polygraph Test?
lolafaith said:
If you took a polygraph test and it showed you could possibly be lying, wouldn't you want the test to be repeated at least so you could prove you were telling the truth?...
Click to expand...
@lolafaith :) Thanks for your post. ^snipped for focus

If test results indicate deception on first test, IDK if there's reason to think the results would be different on a second or subsequent test, w the same questions. jmo
 
GordianKnot said:
There's just nothing whatsoever to support her ever having been there, except the word of a man who went on national tv and told the world he flunked his polygraph and he was the prime suspect. This, despite the fact that LE has never said there was a crime being investigated.

I keep looking to what LE has and hasn't said r/t BT's disappearance for some guidance.
It may be helpful for us to focus solely on what LE is and isn't telling us.
I've been reviewing everything we have and haven't gotten from LE's corner.

Here's what we have:
Husband of missing 69-year-old hiker says police consider him a suspect
  • Statements re: No evidence that BT was abducted (directly refuting RB's theory)
  • Statements re: Not a single trace of BT having been found.
  • Statement that LE is "unaware" of how long RT and BT were separated before she disappeared.
  • Statement that LE "doesn't know" how far BT was from the RV at the time they became separated.
One logical explanation for the first 3 bullet points would be that BT was never at that location.

There is NO logical explanation for the last 2 bolded bullet points...if one assumes LE believes RT's version of events is true, at least.

The last 2 bullet points do make perfect sense if one assumes LE does not believe RT's account of what happened that day.
_____________________________

Then, there's this intriguing shift in LE's language, and the equally intriguing timing of it:
July 22nd - The investigation continues into the whereabouts of missing person Barbara Thomas from SBSD - Colorado River Sheriffs Department : Nixle

Through July 16th, LE's language is that there had been "no sightings" of BT.

RT gives his interview to Inside Edition on July 17th, gives his bikini and beer explanation for her disappearance, and oh, yeah, LE told him his polygraph showed he was being deceptive, but not to worry, on account of he "knows they aren't 100%" and he "hadn't slept the night before."

On the 17th and 18th, LE doesn't include their usual sentence r/t there being "no sightings" of BT in their daily update.

Then, on July 19th, the language from LE changes from "no sightings" of BT to, "no evidence of Barbara" being found in that desert.

Also noting: July 15th is the last date that LE includes the statement that "Barbara was last seen in the area of Kelbaker/Hidden Hills near the 1-40."

After that, LE merely states that they're searching in that area.

They do NOT state that it's the area where she "was last seen" in any updates after July 15.


The timing of their introduction of the word "evidence" into the status of their search is interesting, as is their dropping of the language after July 15th that she was "last seen" there.
________________________________
We also have this more recently from LE:
https://www.wlfi.com/content/news/Lafayette-mans-mother-still-missing-after-hiking-
in-the-Mojave-Desert-with-husband-524401511.html
RSABBM:
Sgt. Allison with the San Bernardino's County Sheriff's Department said they exhausted all resources looking for the 69-year-old.

"We utilized department-wide resources which includes search and rescue," said Allison. "We have hundreds of volunteers across the county that volunteer specifically for search and rescue."

Helicopters and tracking K-9's were also used in the search, but it wasn't enough.

The sheriff's department stopped looking for Barbara Thomas July 22nd. They're pursuing other leads
____________________________

I absolutely read this as LE stating they conducted a comprehensive search and satisfied themselves that she is not out there.

Why would LE go on the record with the statement that they are "pursuing other leads" if they believed she had gone lost in that location?

Rhetorical question.

I'm just pulling all these loosely-knit threads from LE, and to me, it's all leading to a rather obvious conclusion.

One which, unfortunately, we can't fully explore or discuss here.

I'm having to content myself with ongoing and spirited discussions with my main man, William of Occam.
William's thoughts fall entirely outside of WS TOS, so he's informed me that it's probably best that doesn't join our group right now.

I explained to him that's perfectly fine, because we don't need him to tell us what we already know, anyway.
Besides, he charges really outrageous consultation fees.
Dude's like a total scam artist.

JMO.
Click to expand...

Wow, when you put it like that...

“Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.”
 
My current thinking, subject to change as more details (hopefully) uncover:

*If Barb expired due to heat, etc., she will eventually be found somewhere in the vicinity of the searches.
*If Barb met with foul play, it's unlikely the Perp would leave her in that general area where she would be found with DNA, etc. Likely she will never be found. : (

Amateur opinion and speculation
 
al66pine said:
Repeating a Polygraph Test?

@lolafaith :) Thanks for your post. ^snipped for focus

If test results indicate deception on first test, IDK if there's reason to think the results would be different on a second or subsequent test, w the same questions. jmo
Click to expand...
I think it's possible to get different results from a second polygraph because at a later date the person being tested may be in a different state of mind than right after a traumatic event.
These tests are often unreliable indicators of lying because the factors that they measure are also factors of nervous excitement, anxiety, etc. Obviously, the polygraph process would cause some anxiety and would thus skew the results. Nervousness is not exclusive to those who are guilty of any wrongdoing.
Click to expand...

Admissability of Polygraph Tests in Court
 
I thought the statement: 'pursuing other leads' simply meant they were NOT pursuing the idea she was abducted....

OR

is it true they meant that they ceased searching for her in the desert to then pursue 'other leads'
We already know they don't think she was abducted....

Where does that leave us then.....? Hmmm.
 
Nerissa said:
I thought the statement: 'pursuing other leads' simply meant they were NOT pursuing the idea she was abducted....

OR

is it true they meant that they ceased searching for her in the desert to then pursue 'other leads'
We already know they don't think she was abducted....

Where does that leave us then.....? Hmmm.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure that LE thinks she was not abducted.

I'm not sure what LE thinks happened because they haven't told us yet. JMO
 
GordianKnot said:
There's just nothing whatsoever to support her ever having been there, except the word of a man who went on national tv and told the world he flunked his polygraph and he was the prime suspect. This, despite the fact that LE has never said there was a crime being investigated.

I keep looking to what LE has and hasn't said r/t BT's disappearance for some guidance.
It may be helpful for us to focus solely on what LE is and isn't telling us.
I've been reviewing everything we have and haven't gotten from LE's corner.

Here's what we have:
Husband of missing 69-year-old hiker says police consider him a suspect
  • Statements re: No evidence that BT was abducted (directly refuting RB's theory)
  • Statements re: Not a single trace of BT having been found.
  • Statement that LE is "unaware" of how long RT and BT were separated before she disappeared.
  • Statement that LE "doesn't know" how far BT was from the RV at the time they became separated.
One logical explanation for the first 3 bullet points would be that BT was never at that location.

There is NO logical explanation for the last 2 bolded bullet points...if one assumes LE believes RT's version of events is true, at least.

The last 2 bullet points do make perfect sense if one assumes LE does not believe RT's account of what happened that day.
_____________________________

Then, there's this intriguing shift in LE's language, and the equally intriguing timing of it:
July 22nd - The investigation continues into the whereabouts of missing person Barbara Thomas from SBSD - Colorado River Sheriffs Department : Nixle

Through July 16th, LE's language is that there had been "no sightings" of BT.

RT gives his interview to Inside Edition on July 17th, gives his bikini and beer explanation for her disappearance, and oh, yeah, LE told him his polygraph showed he was being deceptive, but not to worry, on account of he "knows they aren't 100%" and he "hadn't slept the night before."

On the 17th and 18th, LE doesn't include their usual sentence r/t there being "no sightings" of BT in their daily update.

Then, on July 19th, the language from LE changes from "no sightings" of BT to, "no evidence of Barbara" being found in that desert.

Also noting: July 15th is the last date that LE includes the statement that "Barbara was last seen in the area of Kelbaker/Hidden Hills near the 1-40."

After that, LE merely states that they're searching in that area.

They do NOT state that it's the area where she "was last seen" in any updates after July 15.


The timing of their introduction of the word "evidence" into the status of their search is interesting, as is their dropping of the language after July 15th that she was "last seen" there.
________________________________
We also have this more recently from LE:
https://www.wlfi.com/content/news/Lafayette-mans-mother-still-missing-after-hiking-
in-the-Mojave-Desert-with-husband-524401511.html
RSABBM:
Sgt. Allison with the San Bernardino's County Sheriff's Department said they exhausted all resources looking for the 69-year-old.

"We utilized department-wide resources which includes search and rescue," said Allison. "We have hundreds of volunteers across the county that volunteer specifically for search and rescue."

Helicopters and tracking K-9's were also used in the search, but it wasn't enough.

The sheriff's department stopped looking for Barbara Thomas July 22nd. They're pursuing other leads
____________________________

I absolutely read this as LE stating they conducted a comprehensive search and satisfied themselves that she is not out there.

Why would LE go on the record with the statement that they are "pursuing other leads" if they believed she had gone lost in that location?

Rhetorical question.

I'm just pulling all these loosely-knit threads from LE, and to me, it's all leading to a rather obvious conclusion.

One which, unfortunately, we can't fully explore or discuss here.

I'm having to content myself with ongoing and spirited discussions with my main man, William of Occam.

William's thoughts fall entirely outside of WS TOS, so he's informed me that it's probably best that doesn't join our group right now.

I explained to him that's perfectly fine, because we don't need him to tell us what we already know, anyway.
Besides, he charges really outrageous consultation fees.
Dude's like a total scam artist.

JMO.
Click to expand...
Last bolding mine , Lmao :D

Excellent post, GK !
 
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