Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #14

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My understanding is Bryer ran away from his mom's home around the time he moved in with his dad and was apparently not getting along with his mother, so I'm not surprised he tried living with his dad at some point.

I don't know what Canada custody laws are, but I know here in the US, a lot of times, older kids have more of a say in which parent they live with. I've known many who have bolted for the non-custodial parent as soon as they can, sometimes out of a misguided belief that it will be better or easier there.

As for why he returned to Port Alberni within a couple of months, I don't know. It has never been addressed, to the best of my knowledge. Some of us suspect he really missed Kam and found the 2.5 hour distance from Port Alberni draconian. If he and his father didn't get along and that's why Bryer left, it doesn't seem to have drastically affected their relationship since they apparently have stayed in touch since then.

His father's homelessness, which apparently has lasted a couple of years, may also have been a factor in why Bryer didn't continue living with him, though I am unsure when that started.

I also don't know if Bryer's other family knew about his bi-monthly visits with dad, but I would suspect his grandmother did since he lived with her and Bryer couldn't drive.

All MOO.

Canadian family law is heavily weighted toward the mother. Very few men get majority-time custody. Chances are if he was living with his dad, HE (BS) most likely made the decision.
 
Canadian family law is heavily weighted toward the mother. Very few men get majority-time custody. Chances are if he was living with his dad, HE (BS) most likely made the decision.
That's helpful--thankful! Do you know at what age Bryer would have first been allowed to make this decision? When my parents divorced in the United States in the 90s, I was told at 10 I was too young to decide who I wanted to live with but would be able to in a few years. I don't remember that there was a set age I was given for when I could make that decision.
 
That's helpful--thankful! Do you know at what age Bryer would have first been allowed to make this decision? When my parents divorced in the United States in the 90s, I was told at 10 I was too young to decide who I wanted to live with but would be able to in a few years. I don't remember that there was a set age I was given for when I could make that decision.
the general rule is the court will allow the wishes of the child to be taken into consideration at age 12. that being said, every judge can be different, an agreement could not even have gone to court. it could be a written agreement in mediation. it could be as simple as bryer says i wanna move in with dad and mom says okay. no paper trail and that’s that.
 
In Canada policy dictates what police inform family members of, especially in cases like this. Not who a person talks too or doesn’t talk to. I’m willing to bet that Keith Mcleod has been told just as few details regarding evidence as Alan Schmegelsky.

I don’t think KM and AS can be compared.
My understanding is Bryer ran away from his mom's home around the time he moved in with his dad and was apparently not getting along with his mother, so I'm not surprised he tried living with his dad at some point.

I don't know what Canada custody laws are, but I know here in the US, a lot of times, older kids have more of a say in which parent they live with. I've known many who have bolted for the non-custodial parent as soon as they can, sometimes out of a misguided belief that it will be better or easier there.

As for why he returned to Port Alberni within a couple of months, I don't know. It has never been addressed, to the best of my knowledge. Some of us suspect he really missed Kam and found the 2.5 hour distance from Port Alberni draconian. If he and his father didn't get along and that's why Bryer left, it doesn't seem to have drastically affected their relationship since they apparently have stayed in touch since then.

His father's homelessness, which apparently has lasted a couple of years, may also have been a factor in why Bryer didn't continue living with him, though I am unsure when that started.

I also don't know if Bryer's other family knew about his bi-monthly visits with dad, but I would suspect his grandmother did since he lived with her and Bryer couldn't drive.

All MOO.

Yeah but about the same time AS was being convicted of an ongoing string of criminal harassment charges. The reference to Criminal Harassment including “fear for their safety” is well beyond an unwelcome handshake. Who he was criminally harassing isn’t known but nobody’s going to convince me anybody’s who prone to criminally harassing anybody or breaching terms of their probation is a positive influence in a 16 year olds life.

I question AS’s motivation in speaking out - is it mainly to spite Bs Port Alberni family members, to flaunt his “close” relationship that none of them might’ve even known he had? Something about him just seems really off to me.

“In 2016, he was found guilty of two additional criminal harassment charges, and in January 2018, he was found guilty of another criminal harassment charge and two breach of probation charges.”
Alan Schmegelsky, father of northern B.C. murder suspect, details troubled life in book


Criminal Code
Criminal harassment
  • 264 (1) No person shall, without lawful authority and knowing that another person is harassed or recklessly as to whether the other person is harassed, engage in conduct referred to in subsection (2) that causes that other person reasonably, in all the circumstances, to fear for their safety or the safety of anyone known to them.
 
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Yeah but about the same time AS was being convicted of criminal harassment charges.

“In 2016, he was found guilty of two additional criminal harassment charges, and in January 2018, he was found guilty of another criminal harassment charge and two breach of probation charges.”
Alan Schmegelsky, father of northern B.C. murder suspect, details troubled life in book

Criminal Code
Criminal harassment
  • 264 (1) No person shall, without lawful authority and knowing that another person is harassed or recklessly as to whether the other person is harassed, engage in conduct referred to in subsection (2) that causes that other person reasonably, in all the circumstances, to fear for their safety or the safety of anyone known to them.

It's very interesting that this behavior from Bryer's dad seems to have continued over a long period of time, and possibly with multiple targets of the harassment (?) The reason why I mention this is I see obvious parallels between this and the threats Bryer made to kill others and then himself...perhaps this is where he learned this behavior from.
 
the general rule is the court will allow the wishes of the child to be taken into consideration at age 12. that being said, every judge can be different, an agreement could not even have gone to court. it could be a written agreement in mediation. it could be as simple as bryer says i wanna move in with dad and mom says okay. no paper trail and that’s that.
That's interesting--thank you!

I don’t think KM and AS can be compared.


Yeah but about the same time AS was being convicted of an ongoing string of criminal harassment charges. The reference to Criminal Harassment including “fear for their safety” is well beyond an unwelcome handshake.

“In 2016, he was found guilty of two additional criminal harassment charges, and in January 2018, he was found guilty of another criminal harassment charge and two breach of probation charges.”
Alan Schmegelsky, father of northern B.C. murder suspect, details troubled life in book


Criminal Code
Criminal harassment
  • 264 (1) No person shall, without lawful authority and knowing that another person is harassed or recklessly as to whether the other person is harassed, engage in conduct referred to in subsection (2) that causes that other person reasonably, in all the circumstances, to fear for their safety or the safety of anyone known to them.
Thanks for that link! I knew he had had some charges filed, but I was unaware they were that recent. I believe Bryer lived with him the summer of 2016, so several months after the initial conviction. I honestly don't know how that would affect custody of Bryer, though, since I'm not familiar with how Canadian family law handles those things!
 
That's helpful--thankful! Do you know at what age Bryer would have first been allowed to make this decision? When my parents divorced in the United States in the 90s, I was told at 10 I was too young to decide who I wanted to live with but would be able to in a few years. I don't remember that there was a set age I was given for when I could make that decision.

I'd also say around 12 or so, but the situation with BS and his dad is pretty unusual given the harassment charges and other issues AS was facing. I kind of doubt a judge would ever give AS custody of BS at any point. I'm thinking the courts weren't involved when BS finally went to live with his father.
 
I do not agree that Sarah Abo was smirking or leading AS at all. Her face is completely relaxed throughout. If someone doesn't like her looks or features, that is their prerogative. To me, however, she is completely relaxed and neutral.

There is pretty much zero chance that all of the questions for Alan weren't discussed ahead of time. More than one "take" was likely filmed so they'd have options when editing. In the old days, one would say that more cut film ended up on the editing room floor than what actually went into the production, but that's old fashioned since its all digital, now. For the seventeen minutes of the time on 60 Minutes, they likely taped for hours to get the seventeen minutes worth. For instance, they didn't just go from the set or a hotel room to standing in the forest by someone waving their magic wand. A lot of thought went into where they were going to film, and what they were going to cover. As someone who has done the videography on half-hour productions, I can tell you it takes hours to change venues and settings and get the people and equipment all in the same place at once. Then, there are hours of filming. Followed by hours of editing, which AS likely had a say in, as well. "Take that bit out. Now add that bit in the hotel room. No, put the bit we took out before back in. That is REALLY how it goes,

I am a retired Instructional Designer and Corporate Trainer and for ten years I wrote content, scripts and production storyboards for high-level marketing and training videos. You don't just walk into a room, turn the camera on your subject and shoot for half an hour asking random questions. That is a waste of time and resources. The interviewer has handlers who decide what will be discussed. The interviewer discusses them with the interviewee and they work through the "script" before they ever begin taping. She didn't surprise him or catch him off guard and he had time to think about what he was going to say ahead of time.

This isn't a guess. This is how producing a new piece is done, and in addition to my own career in the corporate world, I frequently worked with a production company on top news stories in NYC. I thought Sarah was very professional; she didn't tromp on AS's toes nor treat him with kid gloves. I think that everyone involved in the production, logistics, directing and editing did a really nice job.

But AS did the best job of all. Bugs Bunny, Elmer Fudd and his shotgun INDEED. Alan is a bright and witty man and he has a quirky yet astute way of expressing himself that is quite engaging. By the time he got to 60 Minutes he would undoubtedly have been very comfortable around Sarah after two weeks with her. She didn't try to trap him or belittle him or lead him; she just provided agreed-upon questions to ask and kept the convo on track while allowing AS a lot of freedom, script-wise. JMO, as always.
Thanks for that. It has enlightened me.
 
My understanding is Bryer ran away from his mom's home around the time he moved in with his dad and was apparently not getting along with his mother, so I'm not surprised he tried living with his dad at some point.

I don't know what Canada custody laws are, but I know here in the US, a lot of times, older kids have more of a say in which parent they live with. I've known many who have bolted for the non-custodial parent as soon as they can, sometimes out of a misguided belief that it will be better or easier there.

As for why he returned to Port Alberni within a couple of months, I don't know. It has never been addressed, to the best of my knowledge. Some of us suspect he really missed Kam and found the 2.5 hour distance from Port Alberni draconian. If he and his father didn't get along and that's why Bryer left, it doesn't seem to have drastically affected their relationship since they apparently have stayed in touch since then.

His father's homelessness, which apparently has lasted a couple of years, may also have been a factor in why Bryer didn't continue living with him, though I am unsure when that started.

I also don't know if Bryer's other family knew about his bi-monthly visits with dad, but I would suspect his grandmother did since he lived with her and Bryer couldn't drive.

All MOO.

Older kids have more of a say here too, and I agree with you, that more often than not, the kids will think the grass has to be greener on the other side. My guess is that Bryer found out quickly that it was not. As messed up as his Dad seems to be, I give him credit for at least trying and making the effort (going to see him, getting a hotel) Some parents don't even do that.

As far as family law goes... if the Mom had a court order saying she had custody, Bryer runs away to his Dad's, Mom calls the cops, cops would likely tell her it's a family law matter and she could go take Dad to Family court. Family law orders are rarely enforced by local LE or RCMP unless they specifically say they are police enforceable, which is really hard to get a judge to add to an order. JMO based on life experience ;-) This could be a case of Mom being okay with him leaving though, and after leaving Dad, Grandma may have been the only option.
 
That's helpful--thankful! Do you know at what age Bryer would have first been allowed to make this decision? When my parents divorced in the United States in the 90s, I was told at 10 I was too young to decide who I wanted to live with but would be able to in a few years. I don't remember that there was a set age I was given for when I could make that decision.

I don't think there is a set age here, but I also don't think this was a case of them going to court and getting a new order or whatever, it costs a lot of money and takes a long time to get these things done. I think this is more of a case of Bryer either leaving or Mom saying go or 'here, you take him'. JMO
 
I just read Kennedy Deese post on FB from about 8am yesterday morning. It was heartbreaking and painful to read and made me feel resentment and anger. Just terrible.

Very heartbreaking indeed.
 
It's very interesting that this behavior from Bryer's dad seems to have continued over a long period of time, and possibly with multiple targets of the harassment (?) The reason why I mention this is I see obvious parallels between this and the threats Bryer made to kill others and then himself...perhaps this is where he learned this behavior from.
it is interesting as the first few charges in 2010 were in Port Alberni , then 2012 to 2018 are with Victoria.

perhaps it was filed thru Victoria courts for AS to attend his court dates but it interested me in your comment when you mentioned possibly multiple targets of harassment and i just now noticed that the city of the offences were in Victoria.
 
I'd also say around 12 or so, but the situation with BS and his dad is pretty unusual given the harassment charges and other issues AS was facing. I kind of doubt a judge would ever give AS custody of BS at any point. I'm thinking the courts weren't involved when BS finally went to live with his father.

Older kids have more of a say here too, and I agree with you, that more often than not, the kids will think the grass has to be greener on the other side. My guess is that Bryer found out quickly that it was not. As messed up as his Dad seems to be, I give him credit for at least trying and making the effort (going to see him, getting a hotel) Some parents don't even do that.

As far as family law goes... if the Mom had a court order saying she had custody, Bryer runs away to his Dad's, Mom calls the cops, cops would likely tell her it's a family law matter and she could go take Dad to Family court. Family law orders are rarely enforced by local LE or RCMP unless they specifically say they are police enforceable, which is really hard to get a judge to add to an order. JMO based on life experience ;-) This could be a case of Mom being okay with him leaving though, and after leaving Dad, Grandma may have been the only option.
Thanks to both of you--I think what you each outlined seems like the most probable explanation.

I suspect with the issues Bryer is reported to have had with his mother and her reportedly being afraid of him, she might very well have signed off on his leaving.

I agree with you @missy1974 that it seems like grandma was his last option. It seems to have worked out okay since she seems to have gotten along with him, but I also wonder if Bryer knew he needed to be on his best behavior if he wanted a place to stay. He and his mom may both have not wanted him to return to her home and dad's living situation in the van meant staying with his dad was not an option either. One thing I have noticed with Bryer is even though he could be really awful to people, he also seemed to have an uncanny ability for knowing when he should turn it off and mind his p's and q's.

I also do give Bryer's father credit for trying to maintain their relationship in recent years. It seems like he did put no small effort into making arrangements to see him regularly.
 
I'd still say that their actions were not necessary. I'm not big on predestination. Even if they both have the genes for an insufficient right pre-frontal cortex, I think something could have been done. There are forces that go beyond humans, in my worldview. Compulsions for example are another brain malfunction (and strongly keyed by genetics). But something could have been done.

I do agree that it's very odd that K and B took a course of action that resulted in their deaths, when they could have turned themselves in. But they could have avoided death, for sure. I am very curious why they did what they actually did. Too late for the brain studies that might have revealed some of this...maybe in a century we'll get there.
Suicide mission from the start, maybe they never intended to survive for long.
 
It's very interesting that this behavior from Bryer's dad seems to have continued over a long period of time, and possibly with multiple targets of the harassment (?) The reason why I mention this is I see obvious parallels between this and the threats Bryer made to kill others and then himself...perhaps this is where he learned this behavior from.

This is what I wonder. If it’s true B’s mother feared that AS would kill her, instead of B supporting her he apparently aligns himself with his father who goes on to support his shooting games. IMO the dynamics are very disturbing.

How K fits into it, I have no idea.
 
I'd also say around 12 or so, but the situation with BS and his dad is pretty unusual given the harassment charges and other issues AS was facing. I kind of doubt a judge would ever give AS custody of BS at any point. I'm thinking the courts weren't involved when BS finally went to live with his father.

Didn't it also say that even up to the current day, they had to have supervised visits? I'm thinking the decision for Bryer to live with his dad was extrajudicial. It probably wasn't supposed to be allowed but there isn't much oversight a lot of times. I know in my family, there were restraining orders between my parents and my brother, and yet he still lived with each of them violating the restraining orders on multiple occasions (which all parties could have been arrested for) and nobody checked up on it.

Considering the harassment charges, the distance from Kam, and Bryer's dad's homelessness for the past couple of years (it sounds like he may have become homeless after the 2016 harassment charge and never been able to find housing after that -- JMO), it isn't much of a mystery why Bryer left. I think he probably got along with his dad better than his mom overall, but it seems like his dad was unable to provide a stable and structured environment.

it is interesting as the first few charges in 2010 were in Port Alberni , then 2012 to 2018 are with Victoria.

perhaps it was filed thru Victoria courts for AS to attend his court dates but it interested me in your comment when you mentioned possibly multiple targets of harassment and i just now noticed that the city of the offences were in Victoria.

Wasn't the first charge in 2008, on Bryer's 8th birthday, as mentioned in that article?

Yeah it sounds like there may have been multiple targets and this was likely a recurring pattern...and he probably had this behavior for a long time before ever getting arrested for it...I'm thinking it's not a mystery why Bryer kept saying he was going to cut peoples' heads off and so on....
 
Is anyone here going to read AS's book?
I wouldn't read it, personally, for several reasons, but I did look for it after it was initially released. I never could find a digital copy, though sometimes those are delayed with self-pub releases. I haven't looked in awhile.

Honestly, I suspect he purchased the cheapest option available from the self-publisher, and those usually focus heavily on physical copies rather than digital copies, which would be easier for someone to promote and sell in the modern publishing industry (In my humble opinion, these options are the equivalent of a scam that take advantage of authors unaware of how the industry works, but that is another topic.)

In any event, I suspect it is hard to get a copy of it if it is only a print book.
 
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