Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #14

[10ofRods]

These 18-19 year old kids have no assets, and the parents are not legally responsible for their actions. The victims could spend an awful amount of money on lawyers for nothing. It's like trying to get blood out of a stone.

In the US, such cases do not require any money from the plaintiffs.

The only case I see, though, would be if someone supplied K/B with guns or had improper gun storage.

 

[Tipamith]

Wrt KM and BS practicing in the woods. If they were in the sprout lake -Taylor flats area. There are a number of wild life cameras in that area. I wonder if they were caught in action? Not that it would really matter at this point anyway. Not sure if wild life cameras even save what they record or if they just play real time?

 

[steelybird]

I though what CDs sister wrote in response to AS’s public ramblings was appropriate and well-stated.
"But we still forgive you and have mercy": BC murder victim's sister posts message to Bryer Schmegelsky's father - chvnradio.com

I 100% agree with you.

 

[PeoZ]

I guess this has been discussed already, but assuming that KM and BS were listening to the radio in the RAV4, when they burned it they knew they hadn't been named as suspects yet, correct? So, what could have been their rationale for burning it, which would obviously be spotted and bring the authorities? Why not just hide it in the bush?

 

[KR72]

I though what CDs sister wrote in response to AS’s public ramblings was appropriate and well-stated. It seems some MSM have chosen to focus on just one or two sentences which doesn’t do her writings full justice IMO. Full post is here -
"But we still forgive you and have mercy": BC murder victim's sister posts message to Bryer Schmegelsky's father - chvnradio.com

Hopefully more people, not just on this forum, will read her entire post.

AS needs to take a seat and avoid further interactions with the press and I wish they'd stop contacting him.

When reached via Facebook messenger on Sunday and asked about his response to Deese’s post, Schmegelsky said she could go on “60 Minutes” and that he could arrange it.

“I manned up. I have nothing to hide,” he wrote.

Sister of B.C. murder victim accuses Bryer Schmegelsky’s dad of failing to take responsibility

 

[FactFinder3000]

Here's another photo of where the RAV4 was burned, from a verified reporter's twitter. It really doesn't look like it would be stuck there. I have to wonder if they didn't just run out of gas.

Tessa Vanderhart on Twitter

 

[MistyWaters]

In the US, such cases do not require any money from the plaintiffs.

The only case I see, though, would be if someone supplied K/B with guns or had improper gun storage.

Even then, as the perps were not minors they are responsible for their own actions.

 

[KR72]

Even then, as the perps were not minors they are responsible for their own actions.

Just curious about Canadian law. Have there been cases where gun owners have been held responsible for crimes committed with their guns, (say they were improperly secured and stolen)? Anyone here in the know who'd care to weigh in?

 

[Moriarty]

All right, fellow sleuths, answer me this, do you think any "wrongful death"-type lawsuits are going to arise out of this? Five dead, five grieving families from three different countries suddenly faced with the worst news anyone could possibly imagine...I am not even sure a lawsuit is possible, what with no definite answers--yet--as to what exactly transpired.

Any experts in international law here?

Sorry...wanted to reply more quickly, but I had to do some actual work for a few minutes. Apparently, I'm not getting paid to read/respond to WS all day...

In Ontario the maximum you can apply for $25,000. You have to apply, and complete a lot of paperwork, then a board reviews your case, and either approves or denies the request. Then they have a decision on the payment amount, once that is complete they mail you a cheque. Process is about 6 months if you are actively completing the paperwork.

Yes, my law pusher next door (the first consult is always free!) says that most provincial laws regarding wrongful deaths have ceiling clauses for how much a complainant can seek in the suit. Here in Alberta it's $50,000.00. He doesn't know what BC's statute says.

EDIT: Especially if the gun came from Kam's parents and they failed to keep it properly secured. Let's just say their dream lake house is in serious danger if that's the case...JMO.

IMO typically the Canadian justice system is not as litigious as the US system. But I think that is shifting...FOR SURE if a firearm was used in the crimes and it was stolen or given to K&B the giver, or person who failed to lock up their firearm could be held responsible, first by law enforcement in terms of charges being laid, then in the courts. That is just my understanding.

My law guy said he has worked a couple of wrongful death cases here in Alberta. If a family wanted to pursue such a suit, they would of course have to have evidence of the link of the suspects to the crime. Alberta allows for a hearing process that can ascertain the basic facts of the case...he had one here in Edmonton that was a wrongful death action against the city and the prison guards for a young offender who "fell" down an elevator shaft at the court house while in custody.

In terms of the things like if KM was given the gun by a family member, a complainant would have to provide evidence that it was 'reasonably foreseeable' that that gun would be used in the commission of a crime in order to then find fault with someone beyond KM.

And @otto, my guy does not know about victim's services and the eligibility of foreign families to use their services or gain access to victim funds...sorry.

Hope this helps somewhat.

 

[ktm44]

It was mentioned here that the gun laws in Canada extend to proper weapon storage as well. I wonder if that's one of the reasons why Kam's family is being so quiet: the possibility of culpability because Kam took or was given a firearm for his trip with Bryer.

No expert at all, but someone yesterday suggested IF it was found that someone provided KM with a gun and he didn't have a PAL, or if KM's parents had weapons that they failed to secure and he took one, the person(s) responsible could potentially face a civil suit.

You may be referencing my comment I made but I don't believe I indicated the family could face civil action. Indicated that they may be subject to charges by way of the firearms act.

We don't know that any of the family members did own a firearm or if they did have a firearm taken but in the event one was taken, it may be hard to prove negligence. Most Canadians store firearms in safes, which does satisfy the safe storage laws but not all safes are created equal. One can keep a set of keys securely on a ring but can't guard one's keyring 24/7 and those with combinations tend to use fairly predictable combinations. There is also a way to bypass the combination locks that I'd rather not disclose pubicly, lest someone find the information in a general search.

The weapon may not even be a conventional firearm or the original police assessment may not have been evidenced prior to autopsy. I keep wondering if we've all failed to consider more readily available options that someone without a PAL could easily access.

It's been many years since I've dealt with them but certain flare guns (which would be common on commertial boats) can be used to with certain calibre ammo, but it's not recommended and considered dangerous. I'm more familiar with the old style starting guns, which are very similar.

Certain types of arrows can also leave an entry wound similar to small calibre ammo and most bows are not restricted and can be purchased anywhere from Canadian Tire to sporting good stores.

I keep wondering if the type of weapon used is unique and may be what links the two to the murders.

 

[sprucetip]

One thing that is odd about their supposed plan to come to Whitehorse for work, is that most people come up for summer jobs at the beginning of summer, not mid July. I wonder if they contacted anyone about a job. Surely they’d be looking online first.

Yes, some provinces use a Coroner system, others a Medical Examiner including Manitoba (re - Office of Chief Medical Examiner)

“In some provinces, we have a Medical Examiners system and in others a Coroners system. Medical examiners must be medical doctors, but not necessarily forensic pathologists. Only the Chief and Deputy Medical Examiner are usually forensic pathologists. In Ontario, coroners are also doctors, but in the rest of Canada, coroners are lay coroners and come from many backgrounds.”
Medical

There's just something so wrong about a "lay coroner"!! Seems like a field where one would need a significant degree of medical training.

 

[KR72]

There's just something so wrong about a "lay coroner"!! Seems like a field where one would need a significant degree of medical training.

As far as I know, "lay coroners" are basically used in the north, (NWT, Yukon, and Nunavut), especially in remote places. Some of them are RN's and they're capable of pronouncing a person dead.

 

[sandbar]

You may be referencing my comment I made but I don't believe I indicated the family could face civil action. Indicated that they may be subject to charges by way of the firearms act.

We don't know that any of the family members did own a firearm or if they did have a firearm taken but in the event one was taken, it may be hard to prove negligence. Most Canadians store firearms in safes, which does satisfy the safe storage laws but not all safes are created equal. One can keep a set of keys securely on a ring but can't guard one's keyring 24/7 and those with combinations tend to use fairly predictable combinations. There is also a way to bypass the combination locks that I'd rather not disclose pubicly, lest someone find the information in a general search.

The weapon may not even be a conventional firearm or the original police assessment may not have been evidenced prior to autopsy. I keep wondering if we've all failed to consider more readily available options that someone without a PAL could easily access.

It's been many years since I've dealt with them but certain flare guns (which would be common on commertial boats) can be used to with certain calibre ammo, but it's not recommended and considered dangerous. I'm more familiar with the old style starting guns, which are very similar.

Certain types of arrows can also leave an entry wound similar to small calibre ammo and most bows are not restricted and can be purchased anywhere from Canadian Tire to sporting good stores.

I keep wondering if the type of weapon used is unique and may be what links the two to the murders.

Something else that might connect the scenes might be evidence of a "hunt". If they were re-enacting a game, part of that game might be stalking, tracking etc.

Something else might connect the scene, such as a "signature", either intentional or unintentional. Maybe like Z for Zorro-type-of-thing, or as you say an obscure weapon...

 

[scrappinkat]

There's just something so wrong about a "lay coroner"!! Seems like a field where one would need a significant degree of medical training.

There’s also been concerns about the lack of qualified coroners in other areas of BC.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/coroner-shortage-northwest-territories-retire-1.4819837

 

[Snoop Sister]

My hope is that out of this horrific tragedy there is some semblance toward enlightenment and change. Such as:

1. More training for school staff regarding mental health issues and signs of such. Policy development regarding referral to pertinent services.
2. Changes in the health care system (Mental Health) making services available to more people and a sliding scale or free services to those who with limited incomes.
3. Teachable moments with students and young people .
5. More parent awareness regarding video gaming, mental health etc
6. Road trip (traveller) awareness - planning of travel, checking and so forth. Although travelling is fun and there are many wonderful people out there...
7. More training for therapists and counsellor especially related to trauma
So forth and so forth

Let Lucas, Chynna and Dr. Dyck’s legacy be an learning experience for everyone and bring about some needed changes. I am not in dreamland and I recognize all these changes will not happen but any improvement is in the right direction.

Edited to add. Mental health is part of health care services

 

[MrHanky]

Thank you and sorry about your uncle.. Yes some people took what I said as a bit harsh. But there is something to be said. It’s like a sad town almost.
There are few people who have been able to capitalize on the fishing charters and logging since the mill shut down.

 

[SnooperDuper]

My hope is that out of this horrific tragedy there is some semblance toward enlightenment and change. Such as:

1. More training for school staff regarding mental health issues and signs of such. Policy development regarding referral to pertinent services.
2. Changes in the health care system making services available to more people and a sliding scale or free services to those who with limited incomes.
3. Teachable moments with students and young people .
5. More parent awareness regarding video gaming, mental health etc
6. Road trip (traveller) awareness - planning of travel, checking and so forth. Although travelling is fun and there are many wonderful people out there...
7. More training for therapists and counsellor especially related to trauma
So forth and so forth

Let Lucas, Chynna and Dr. Dyck’s legacy be an learning experience for everyone and bring about some needed changes. I am not in dreamland and I recognize all these changes will not happen but any improvement is in the right direction.

I think a lot of what you suggest should "change" is already in place.

Health care is free in Canada and it would be hard to make it cheaper. I don't think you can say this all happened because the system failed.

 

[CanadianMade]

Interesting take on Port Alberni. I had an uncle who lived there since the 70s who just kind of dropped out long ago due to substance abuse and a life than wore him down. He took his own life in the woods in a park near Long Beach a few years ago. So there’s another unhappy Port Alberni story for anybody collecting them.

Here is a happy one for you all.....
I have family there who are all doing very well for themselves.
One just tore down and rebuilt a house basically all on their own(some help here and there of course).
None of them are "rednecks". None of them are "hillbillies". None of them are "idiots". None of them deserve to be looked at in a negative light simply because of the town they live in.

@JuneBug67 My seeming resentment is not directed towards you. It is directed towards the person you are responding to, as I really do feel that their post was appropriate.

 

[SnooperDuper]

If you see an inappropriate post, please REPORT IT so the mods can delete it. Don't quote it so that people have to read something offensive over and over.

 

[Francie Starr]

I guess this has been discussed already, but assuming that KM and BS were listening to the radio in the RAV4, when they burned it they knew they hadn't been named as suspects yet, correct? So, what could have been their rationale for burning it, which would obviously be spotted and bring the authorities? Why not just hide it in the bush?

It is only our presumption, isn't it, that they are the ones who burned their vehicle.
It is not beyond the realm of possibility that another person or persons would have compelling reason to burn a stolen vehicle, especially one featured almost daily in the national and international news. MOO I think that they were declared to be suspects on Tuesday, July 23 and the vehicle was torched the following day, Wednesday, July 24.