MO - Off-duty firefighter stops man armed w/ 100 rounds of ammo at S Springfield Walmart, 8 Aug 2019

[Boxer]

Based on the law why is he being charged? Is open carry legal?

Missouri is constitutional open or concealed carry a so yes, unless otherwise posted it is legal.

 

[Boxer]

We'll see. The public (and apparently WalMart) are getting fed up with this behavior. How does a security guard or innocent shopper know the difference between this idiot and the one who actually shot up the WalMart in El Paso? They don't.

They can't, and really we only have Andreychenko's word that in actuality he didn't intend more and just didn't follow through.

 

[Betty P]

Missouri is constitutional open or concealed carry a so yes, unless otherwise posted it is legal.

What are the boundaries of that? Is it ok if the person is walking around the store, brandishing their semi-automatic rifle and saying things to frighten shoppers? Are there no restrictions on how someone is allowed to do their "open carry"? Is it all legal right up until the moment they pull the trigger and shoot someone?

I'm glad we're having this national discussion, because it's probably going to change some policies and laws.

 

[Betty P]

They can't, and really we only have Andreychenko's word that in actuality he didn't intend more and just didn't follow through.

So because he's the owner of a dangerous weapon, his credibility is greater than the unarmed senior citizen who was trying to shop in Walmart that day? If it sounds ridiculous, it's because it is.

 

[Boxer]

What are the boundaries of that? Is it ok if the person is walking around the store, brandishing their semi-automatic rifle and saying things to frighten shoppers? Are there no restrictions on how someone is allowed to do their "open carry"? Is it all legal right up until the moment they pull the trigger and shoot someone?

I'm glad we're having this national discussion, because it's probably going to change some policies and laws.

Totally agree.
Time to get serious about all this. From what I saw Andreychenko was carrying his AR slung in the front. It would take him less than a second to get it to his shoulder.

 

[Betty P]

Totally agree.
Time to get serious about all this. From what I saw Andreychenko was carrying his AR slung in the front. It would take him less than a second to get it to his shoulder.

I heard that, too. Someone mentioned it's "supposed" to be worn in the back. Crazy stuff.

A lot may also depend on this guy's social media activity. If he's found to have posted a lot of negative or threatening things on social media, they may view his situation differently. Also check his use of drugs and MJ. He could be arrested for that, as he likely lied about it on his permits. Let's hope they drug tested him after he was arrested.

 

[Gardenista]

Hispanics in El Paso flock to firearms classes | Daily Mail Online

 

[gitana1]

According to this article, he was carrying multiple weapons 100 rounds of ammo, filming himself on his cell phone and making comments to other customers. IOW, he was behaving in a way that made other customers fearful, other than having his weapon. I hope they check him for drug use, too. That can result in him permanently losing his "right to bear arms". He may have the right to openly carry a military style weapon in Walmart, but it doesn't give him the right to say and do other things to instill fear in customers. It's a fine line and the public's rights and safety should come first, JMO.

Police: Man with rifle, bulletproof vest arrested at Walmart store

That makes more sense but still, I'm not sure about the strength of the charges:

In order to be guilty the person must “recklessly disregard” the risk of “causing the evacuation, quarantine or closure of any portion of a building, inhabitable structure, place of assembly or facility of transportation.”

In addition, the person must knowingly:

• Communicate “an express or implied threat” to cause an incident or condition involving danger to life; or
• Communicate a false report of an incident or condition involving danger to life; or
• Cause a false belief or fear that an incident has occurred or that a condition exists involving danger to life

The bottom line is whether by walking in the store dressed like that and armed under the circumstances of recent mass shootings, if that suffices as an implied threat. I think we all know he was trying to cause a scene or prove a point. But it's legal to walk armed into Walmart in that state.

We shall see.

 

[gitana1]

We'll see. The public (and apparently WalMart) are getting fed up with this behavior. How does a security guard or innocent shopper know the difference between this idiot and the one who actually shot up the WalMart in El Paso? They don't.

No. They don't. But that's the consequence of laws allowing open carry and guns of that nature. Plus wearing full body armor in public places when you're not LE, security, military or training somewhere, is also legal.

So it's an interesting case.

 

[PayrollNerd]

Yes, they did. The judge scolded him like a little kid, claimed he was going to hold him on house arrest, then changed his mind so he can go to work.

This idiot still has his job?? What does he do for a living? In my opinion, he is a huge liability for any employer.

 

[Rocky1]

Bond is set at $10,000. Everything is hunky dory, Mr. Andreychenko is free and headed back to work. We shouldn't assume that he'll have his guns returned to him at some future date.

With any luck, he'll be on the radar of the FBI.

Judge sets bond for man accused of making terroristic threat in Springfield Neighborhood Market

Walmart condemns incident at Springfield store as 'reckless act designed to scare people'

Public, experts react to Walmart incident — and wonder if it was a crime

If he's found not guilty, then not only will his guns be returned, but if he files a law suit, he may have lots of money to buy more .

 

[Rocky1]

Armed cops, yes. Armed citizens making me feel safer? Hell no. They could be insane. They could be evil. They could be there to erupt in a mass shooting or a robbery. They could be prone to panic and randomly shoot unintended targets. They could be bad shots and accidentally shoot me or my family when trying to shoot a perceived threat.

It's baffling to me that civilians would ever feel comforted at the thought of non-LE civilians carrying guns in a public place, knowing zero about their temperament, history, mental health, criminal history, motives for being armed and/or training.

Absolutely baffling.

So your opinion is that what the fireman did was out of line?

 

[Rocky1]

He looks totally normal to me. Acne as a kid doesn't mean drug use.

I think he's a gun advocate angry about gun laws that wouldn't sell to him and was pushing the law.

I also don't understand the charges unless they feel his full tactial gear coupled with being armed constituted a terroristic threat.

But the judge seemed to not think this was very serious.

I think he's going to get off.

He not only may get off, but he can sue the fireman in a civil action. He may also have a case against the city for unlawful detainment. We'll have to wait and see if he asked the cop if he was being detained. We know he was detained, because he was arrested, but was he legally detained? If he asked the cop and he said yes, but he did nothing illegal, nor planned to, it's going to get dicey.

 

[Rocky1]

We'll see. The public (and apparently WalMart) are getting fed up with this behavior. How does a security guard or innocent shopper know the difference between this idiot and the one who actually shot up the WalMart in El Paso? They don't.

The reality is that Walmart can post signs stating "no guns allowed," but, up until the law is changed, it really doesn't matter how fed up the public is.
You hit the nail on the head. A security guard or innocent shopper doesn't know the difference, and if this happened a month ago before El Paso, maybe it wouldn't be such an issue?
I watched a video on You Tube where 4 girls walked into a Walmart a few years ago, and they all had guns holstered in Missouri. The cops never arrested them.

 

[Rocky1]

This idiot still has his job?? What does he do for a living? In my opinion, he is a huge liability for any employer.

He works for a trucking company.

 

[Rocky1]

No. They don't. But that's the consequence of laws allowing open carry and guns of that nature. Plus wearing full body armor in public places when you're not LE, security, military or training somewhere, is also legal.

So it's an interesting case.

It is interesting, I agree.
Here's a video from a man that did the same thing this guy did, but in an airport in Ga.
Do you think if we had a shooter last week that shot up an airport, and this guy tried this now, that he'd be arrested and charged with terrorism?
What's the difference between this guy and Andreychenko? IMO a week of public fear.

 

[Rocky1]

They can't, and really we only have Andreychenko's word that in actuality he didn't intend more and just didn't follow through.

Andreychenko doesn't have to prove he wasn't going to do more. It's up to the prosecution to prove that he was.

 

[Betty P]

If he's found not guilty, then not only will his guns be returned, but if he files a law suit, he may have lots of money to buy more .

I seriously doubt that is going to happen. I think this guy was behaving in a much more menacing manner than is legally allowed.

Either way, I'm letting Walmart and other major retailers know I will no longer patronize their stores until they ban weapons inside. I'm done with it. I shop at a small, local chain grocery store that doesn't allow guns inside. The rest I can buy online.

I've already contacted my member of Congress and both senators about this. I know a lot of other people are doing the same. It will be a key issue in the next election. We've reached a tipping point and voters have had enough.

 

[Rocky1]

I heard that, too. Someone mentioned it's "supposed" to be worn in the back. Crazy stuff.

A lot may also depend on this guy's social media activity. If he's found to have posted a lot of negative or threatening things on social media, they may view his situation differently. Also check his use of drugs and MJ. He could be arrested for that, as he likely lied about it on his permits. Let's hope they drug tested him after he was arrested.

They can't just drug test everyone that's arrested, however, if he's working for a trucking co, chances are he gets drug tested randomly, depending on his position.

 

[Betty P]

The young turks posted this exact video, and that was discussed. I didn't want to use that link because that's a different debate IMO, and I was trying to stay on topic.

I'll check it out. Not surprised Cenk would say something.