Found Deceased Malaysia - Nora Quoirin, 15, from UK, special needs, missing on vacation, Seremban, 4 Aug 2019 #4

[SuperTmo]

I agree!!!

These folks searched for days in horrendous conditions. They gave up their celebration to search for her.

I've followed lots of lost kids on here. Most keep moving until something stops them. Sometimes a ridge/cliff they're stuck on, one boy from NC wondered 3 days in a circle, until he was tangled in briars. He clearly stated a bear kept him company.

Kids wander when lost.

Jmo

Wandering is absolutely the instinct, and it makes sense. They want to go home, find their mama and dad, and be safe. To them it makes sense to try and walk back because that’s how they got there.

The only kids I recall recently NOT wandering are the two sisters from Humbolt County, California... Leia and Caroline in March of this year. They were rescued after almost 48 hours in the woods and said they could tell rescuers were looking because they could see helicopters. They learned in 4H how to find shelter to stay dry, stay in one place, and how to drink rainwater off leaves. These girls were 5 and 8. But unfortunately these concepts are far more advanced than it sounds like sweet Nora had the ability to grasp, which is devastating.

To be honest, I think it’s rare kids even learn to stay put, unless a family spends a lot of time outdoors. I learned to “hug a tree” and taught my daughter the same after the story of these girls, but until then it never dawned on me that I should teach her that!

 

[Simply Southern]

- I edited to provide a link -
If she died on the 11th it falls on the "day of sacrifice"
https://inews.co.uk/news/world/eid-al-adha-2019-when-date-qurbani-meaning-muslim-eid-al-fitr/

I don't think Nora was a sacrifice. I feel being found was a gift. She brought the world together.

The family took Nora on adventures, there is always a risk. They gave her many opportunities and experiences, knowing of possible unknown risk. She was given back ....not a sacrifice. That's my thinking.

honours the willingness of the prophet Ibrahim (known in the Christian Old Testament as Abraham) to sacrifice his son as an act of obedience to God’s command.

However, before Ibrahim carried out the heartbreaking request, God, known as “Allah” in Islam, produced a lamb for him to sacrifice instead.

To commemorate the tale, an animal is sacrificed and divided into three parts in an act known as Qurbani. One part of the sheep is given to the poor, one to the immediate family at home and one is reserved for relatives.

JMHO

 

[Simply Southern]

Wandering is absolutely the instinct, and it makes sense. They want to go home, find their mama and dad, and be safe. To them it makes sense to try and walk back because that’s how they got there.

The only kids I recall recently NOT wandering are the two sisters from Humbolt County, California... Leia and Caroline in March of this year. They were rescued after almost 48 hours in the woods and said they could tell rescuers were looking because they could see helicopters. They learned in 4H how to find shelter to stay dry, stay in one place, and how to drink rainwater off leaves. These girls were 5 and 8. But unfortunately these concepts are far more advanced than it sounds like sweet Nora had the ability to grasp, which is devastating.

To be honest, I think it’s rare kids even learn to stay put, unless a family spends a lot of time outdoors. I learned to “hug a tree” and taught my daughter the same after the story of these girls, but until then it never dawned on me that I should teach her that!

Those kids were amazing !!!! They had camped alot and their parents and 4H had trained them in survival skills.
That was a one is a million case!!!

 

[MsBetsy]

Judging from photos, the window was virtually like a door, she could just step through it.

It's much smaller and narrower than the door, and a lot higher from the ground. I'm pretty sure one would have to squeeze through it turning sideways, and it's a longer drop to the ground than walking out a door. You would also have to hold on to the sides or the window itself, which might explain the fingerprints.
She would also have to maintain her balance upon reaching the ground.

I still can't imagine her walking into that dark jungle all by herself. Unless she waited until it got light, but then I can't imagine how they didn't find her when they searched the property a couple of hours later. The staff said they were looking in the jungle, and it was a slow process because of how dense it was. She could not have gotten very far at that point. Imo

 

[Eve71]

I don't think Nora was a sacrifice. I feel being found was a gift. She brought the world together.

The family took Nora on adventures, there is always a risk. They gave her many opportunities and experiences, knowing of possible unknown risk. She was given back ....not a sacrifice. That's my thinking.

honours the willingness of the prophet Ibrahim (known in the Christian Old Testament as Abraham) to sacrifice his son as an act of obedience to God’s command.

However, before Ibrahim carried out the heartbreaking request, God, known as “Allah” in Islam, produced a lamb for him to sacrifice instead.

To commemorate the tale, an animal is sacrificed and divided into three parts in an act known as Qurbani. One part of the sheep is given to the poor, one to the immediate family at home and one is reserved for relatives.

JMHO

What on Earth has any of that got to do with Nora? This thread really is getting rather silly now.

 

[Simply Southern]

I seriously doubt that's what the poster I was replying to was thinking...

I'm not going to go off topic into a full on religious debate but higher powers 'intervening' in the long drawn out death of a young girl....but not actually saving her?! I just can't even entertain it.

Yes, we don't want a closed thread.

I respect all opinions. I'm not hear to judge. We are all different and have the right to express ourselves. No disrespect, intended.

JMHO

 

[SuperTmo]

It's specifically identified as a duodenal ulcer. Nora Anne Quoirin Likely Died in Malaysia From Starvation and Stress, Police Say

The “complicated by perforation” makes me think she died of sepsis more than internal bleeding. The ulcer basically burned a hole in her stomach and allowed digestive fluids and whatever she was able to eat leak out into her abdominal cavity. This can kill you in the best of conditions, so her passing isn’t surprising.

 

[Simply Southern]

What on Earth has any of that got to do with Nora? This thread really is getting rather silly now.

Yes, its time to change the subject and move on. It happens when we run out of stuff to talk about, in my opinion. Sorry....

 

[Simply Southern]

The “complicated by perforation” makes me think she died of sepsis more than internal bleeding. The ulcer basically burned a hole in her stomach and allowed digestive fluids and whatever she was able to eat leak out into her abdominal cavity. This can kill you in the best of conditions, so her passing isn’t surprising.

Agree....

 

[steff13]

What reason do we have to believe that she didn't just go out the door? Is it simply because the window was open? She could have opened the window and still gone out the door. The window could have been open when they got there and they didn't notice.

If there is no evidence that anyone else was in the house, no evidence of a struggle, etc., I think the most likely scenario is that she left on her own, regardless of how unlikely her family believes that to be.

 

[SuperTmo]

What bothers me:

• She was found naked.
• Negri police chief: “We covered that area, since we believed, that she’s alive until day seven. She may have been mobile (moving around).
  Source: malaymail.com
  
  Day seven is the 11th of August, a remarkable coincidence: Eid al-Adha - Wikipedia

The Shaman and the hikers joined the search on Sunday the 11th.
Shamans chanting on Monday the 12th.

Not sure why any of this bothers you. Can you elaborate?

 

[JennyDee]

Is that the Autopsy finished?
I know they said how she died and there was no sexual assault but what about if there was anyone else’s DNA on her or any drugs in her system and what about her bare feet considering she’s supposed to of been in the jungle 10 days wandering about there’s no mention of her feet being damaged in anyway?

 

[MsBetsy]

I searched in Medical Books and on the Internet for "upper gastro-intestinal bleeding/ulcer" complicated by perforation.

I read NSAIDS overdose / overuse over a prolonged period of time and H pylori bacteria can cause ulcer bleeding. But this happens more to the elderly...
Other reasons like stress and not eating regularly cause gradual harm to the body & stomach ulcer over a long time. NQ might have starved but what 'ulcer'?

We have not found any scientific article that starvation of 1 week causes sudden acute ulcer bleeding of the Emergency sort... By saying this, I'm not saying in any way that the post-mortem was wrong, but just puzzled why whoever said starvation & stress can cause ulcer bleeding leading to death within 1 week... We looked and looked but cannot find info about such a COD... If anyone finds info in reliable medical Journals (black and white published non-fiction articles), pls Respectfully share. Thank you.

Want to find out what can cause the type of internal bleeding (the ulcer developed And led to death within few days?) Specifically said by the Malaysian Police during the video of the press conference (which developed over a short few days but caused Death?)...
- According to Pathologist's Report, what caused the inner bleeding?
- Or was it an off-the-cuff remark, not by pathologist?

I don't think it was stress or starvation that caused the ulcer, but it might have been from drinking the water in the river. Bacteria in the water can cause an infection which can lead to an ulcer in the intestines. It's apparently more common in less developed countries, from what I have read, depending on the type of bacteria found in the water.
She had to have had water to survive, if she was out there for 10 days.
Stress and hunger may have exacerbated the problem.
Just a thought.
Imo

 

[SuperTmo]

If I hear my mum’s voice in the middle of the forest, coming from various directions, I might also be confused.

Oh absolutely! Especially because one article said the recording was kind of crackly or the quality was decreased as it was played into the amplifier thing. I think this would confuse any child without any sort of disabilities until they could reason out what they were hearing.

This is why I think the parents being out there walking with searchers and continually speaking TO her in the first day or two would have been a better approach. Tell her favorite jokes, talk to her about her family, give her a chance to recognize that it is safe to come out. Two sentences on repeat days into the search when she was likely already suffering from lack of fluids is fairly pointless.

 

[Armchair_Defective]

What reason do we have to believe that she didn't just go out the door? Is it simply because the window was open? She could have opened the window and still gone out the door. The window could have been open when they got there and they didn't notice.

If there is no evidence that anyone else was in the house, no evidence of a struggle, etc., I think the most likely scenario is that she left on her own, regardless of how unlikely her family believes that to be.

If the parents had gone to bed last and closed all the windows, then it must have been Nora that opened it but yes, I agree she seems to have gone out either by the window or the door. There's no real way to tell but it doesn't really change the fact she left.

 

[Simply Southern]

Is that the Autopsy finished?
I know they said how she died and there was no sexual assault but what about if there was anyone else’s DNA on her or any drugs in her system and what about her feet considering she’s supposed to of been in the jungle 10 days wandering about there’s no mention of her feet being damaged in anyway?

Yes, she did have scratches. Toxicology reports may take time, I feel we will hear more in the days to come.


Here is the original press conference and a translation by our very on @Shadyren. We had the translation within second last night. That was wonderful.

press conference is now online.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=926158354408164

>estimate time of her death, was 2-3 days
>few bruises and small cut on her foots, but that not causes for her death
>no evidence that she was raped, her hymen still intact
>no evidence of kidnapping
>roughly report, that the cause of her death was gastro-internal rupture/bleeding. She did not eat for a very long time, plus she also under extremely stressful condition.
>there are still undergoing intensive diagnosis for further clarification cause of her death, followed next update will be announced soon.

The notes he made,are very helpful
.

Moo

 

[LaborDayRN]

IMO - we aren’t going to easily research and find another story of a patient that comes close to this scenario. It’s not just that she was hungry, or that maybe she developed an ulcer that bled.

Nora was developmentally delayed due to her brain literally not developing the usual way in the womb, physically limited in mobility to at least some degree, suddenly withdrawn from any meds she may have taken.

She was lost in a rainforest for a week, had no idea what she might be able to eat that wouldn’t kill her (i’d be in this same boat), and she didn’t really understand to look for fruits and berries to eat. Her only water may have exposed her to parasites that could have caused diarrhea and vomiting. It was hot and humid AF, and she was completely alone.

The amount of anxiety, fear and stress she felt was probably something none of us have ever experienced.

There is no way you are going to be able to pinpoint anything similar in a journal of medicine, because this is a very unique set of circumstances and clearly they all compounded into her unfortunate outcome.

BBM: I've been wondering if it boils down to what she found to eat or drink that caused the bleed. She had to have been very hungry and may have ingested a toxic plant or as you said, parasitic water.
As for why she may have wandered away, I wonder if she may have woken out of a deep sleep and been disoriented. This wasn't her home, nothing looked familiar. She may have left out of confusion and fear, trying to find her home. This story just breaks my heart.

 

[MsBetsy]

The “complicated by perforation” makes me think she died of sepsis more than internal bleeding. The ulcer basically burned a hole in her stomach and allowed digestive fluids and whatever she was able to eat leak out into her abdominal cavity. This can kill you in the best of conditions, so her passing isn’t surprising.

Yes, and a bacterial infection can cause sepsis and lead to death if left untreated.
This is why I think it's more likely it was caused by drinking the water. She had to have been thirsty from the first day, which would make sense since it would take a few days to develop. It would just get worse and more painful until she died.

Either way, it would have been a slow and painful death, most likely.

Poor Nora. I hope she was unconscious awhile or drifted off into a deep sleep so she didn't feel the pain at the end. Imo

 

[realanastasia]

I believe the poster is implying that a Muslim had something to do with Nora's disappearance. They obviously don't believe in co-incidence.

That's rather a nasty inference to draw from this post, and I think it's inappropriate to attribute intolerance to its author, especially as they have made it quite clear that they treat other religious traditions with respect AND that they believe in "divine intervention" (which others might call "coincidence.")

 

[rebel123]

This will be an 'unpopular' thing to say; happy to take the flack; The authorities were fairly confident from the off that they were dealing with a missing persons. Nora had difficulty walking and balance issues. Even early on there was press coverage about Nora's interest in the 'waterfall' in the media; no doubt through interviews with the family. The police covered all the distances / areas that were possible within a few days. I can't help but think that something has gone wrong with the search grid. Nora was found a mile and a half from the resort. I know they found Nora in a remote location; but surely after you've looked at the obvious, you would turn your attention to the less obvious.
I'm kind of speechless.