CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #7

[Reasonable & Just]

Thank you, I too find this happens all the time in such threads. Far too many seem unable to think about how people actually talk. How stories can change in minute ways each time they are repeated. How people don't always listen or hear properly, and miss things. How we sometimes use the wrong word, or go off on a tangent.

Added to that is the attitude so often encountered that "I wouldn't do that, therefore neither would anybody else" or "I don't believe that is possible, therefore it isn't".

All of this is true. But it's also unwise, and often dangerous, to not take someone at their word, and instead come up with reasons why they might mean the opposite of what they said. Why they might not really think their wife was abducted (not lost) because she had a beer and a bikini, even though they said just that. Twice. Calmly, voluntarily, in front of cameras, and not under those bright police interrogation lights they have in cartoons.

 

[Cherwell]

All of this is true. But it's also unwise, and often dangerous, to not take someone at their word, and instead come up with reasons why they might mean the opposite of what they said. Why they might not really think their wife was abducted because she had a beer and a bikini, even though they said just that. Twice. Calmly, voluntarily, in front of cameras, and not under those bright police interrogation lights they have in cartoons.

As to that, I don't have a problem with it. I've said before, a lone scantily-clad woman might well attract the wrong sort of attention, and she was still an attractive lady. I can believe a husband still attracted to his wife would think like that.

 

[Reasonable & Just]

As to that, I don't have a problem with it. I've said before, a lone scantily-clad woman might well attract the wrong sort of attention, and she was still an attractive lady. I can believe a husband still attracted to his wife would think like that.

I know. I do wonder why he didn't leave room for the possibility that she was just lost, though. Or why he didn't seem to be afraid of what they were doing to her or ask them not to hurt her.

 

[Jade]

Yes, but AFTER, the Powell case was known, not on the day Barbara went missing.

Below from the following article: California police say missing hiker who vanished 'in her bikini' was NOT abducted | Daily Mail Online

'When that information started coming out about [the other woman], that's what created the speculation [that Barbara had been abducted] but our investigation does not indicate any signs that she was abducted,' Miller said.

I believe the Sheriff’s office spokesperson is speculating on public speculation.

That article was posted on July 22nd and the spokesperson may not have even known that RT himself did an interview saying BT was taken while crossing the street back to the camper or she would have mentioned that's the husbands belief.

For consideration:

On the media thread the poster Oviedo has a link labeled first mention of abduction:


Man says police think he is a suspect in wife's disappearance


The article its self was dated: Posted: 6:32 PM, Jul 15, 2019

Robert believes she might have been picked up. Their trailer was parked near a road and he thinks someone might have take Barbara while she was crossing the road.


He’s asking people in surrounding areas, including Las Vegas, to be on high alert.


He says if anyone did pick her up, he won’t press charges. He just wants her home safe.


“I just want my wife back and if somebody out there has her, which I feel somebody does, please drop her off at a safe place where she can contact us and that’s it,” says Thomas. ​

The Inyo County Sheriff’s office Facebook page announces SP found at 2:00 on July 15

At 6:00, July 15, their update said no further information at this time.

The earliest MSM report, I can find, with information from SP’s family saying she was not lost but instead scared off with a knife wielding man is 4:00, July 15.

Latest: Family: California hiker chased by man with knife


Majority of media reports with SP’s family interview from the hospital bed declaring she was chased by a man with a knife where not until 6:00 news.

RT is on the news within or less than a couple of hours of the very earliest reports saying he believes BT was abducted in an entirely different scenario than SP’s so unrelated to SP’s news, imo.

Surely the one thing we can all agree on is that RT thinks BT was abducted as we can see and hear his own words saying so.

 

[Curiousobserver]

As to that, I don't have a problem with it. I've said before, a lone scantily-clad woman might well attract the wrong sort of attention, and she was still an attractive lady. I can believe a husband still attracted to his wife would think like that.

Yes! not unreasonable to think that a woman in a bikini would attract more attention than one in a big floppy hat and a walker. And he might be a little emotional and perhaps angry that she is missing like "geesh I told her a thousand times not to parade around like that in public because something might happen out here"

I don't know what happened out there.

I don't know this man or his character.

I expect LE is all over every word he said and checking every aspect of his timeline of events. Its really hard to make up a completely internally consistent story and also not get captured in a lie on video or a traffic cam, or a cell tower ping.

More evidence will come out if it exists.

 

[slowpoke]

Most hydration units hold either 2 or 3 liters. It sounds like RT was implying that he was carrying water for both him and BT. In that case, using a hydration unit would be a bit weird since then they'd have to both suck the water out of the same tube. I mean, spouses usually share germs, but that would kind of involve sharing saliva. I doubt they were "sharing" one hydration bladder.

If RT was carrying a gallon of water to be shared between him and BT, my guess is that he would be carrying it in either a gallon container or in several smaller bottles. A gallon container is awkward to drink from, but they could've been going the "container plus cups" route on their walk. Several smaller bottles would make more sense. While a gallon sounds like a lot, it's probably a good idea for two people carry at least that much on even a short hike in the desert.

As @10ofRods noted, if one person in a couple carries/has all the water, and possibly other supplies, in their pack, while the other is wearing non-protective clothing (except for the boots) and has no pack, then the person with no gear, though less burdened, would be very dependent on the person with the water and the gear. And if the two of them become separated, especially in a hot desert, that may lead to problems.
MOO

I don’t think I’d mind sharing my husband’s hydration pack, personally. Is that yuck? But, ok, how about one can fill an empty bottle from the drinking tube, then hand the bottle to the other person to drink from?

I’d say it is pretty true for me that my husband will be the one to wear a backpack and lug all our stuff on day trips. I’m remembering, for example, like when my kids were young and we’d go as a family to an amusement park. He would carry the pack with the kids’ junk and snacks, etc. We were together, so it seemed to make sense.

Likewise, RT and BT were doing their walk together, so it doesn’t seem odd that he would be carrying all the supplies, to me.

 

[Cherwell]

I know. I do wonder why he didn't leave room for the possibility that she was just lost, though. Or why he didn't seem to be afraid of what they were doing to her or ask them not to hurt her.

I don't know what the timings were, but he was saying that after a couple of days of searching, wasn't he? My first thought was that he might cling to the abduction idea as the best hope of her still being alive. But at the same time, know deep down that it wasn't likely.

 

[al66pine]

Optimal Conditions for SAR Dogs?

...It sounds like perfect conditions for a 69 year young woman to perish. Remains are exceedingly difficult to see in a desert/rocky terrain until they bleach (9 mos or so).
But the searchers didn't find a single trace.
The dogs didn't smell her in optimal conditions.
No mention of buzzards or ravens.
No clothing, no cup.
If she is around there, I have to believe she is under rocks, buried or obscured in the creekbed....

@Vail Thanks for your post. snipped for focus. Agreeing w ^, except one point: "The dogs didn't smell her in optimal conditions."

IIRC, from discussion in first few day (sorry, no link) about SAR dogs, some of those noses do not work well in hot dry air.
The Mojave terrain itself is not 'optimal condition' for four-footed (or two footed) creatures. Very hot surface, w spines, thorns, stickers, prickly branches, rough on feet, dogs' & humans.' Hard to keep balance w mix of sand, pebbles, gravel, fist-sized & bigger rocks, plus sloping & choppy terrain, practically an obstacle course, imo. Not to mention the hot air temp. < Those factors make walking more difficult and slower for dogs & ppl. I don't know how SAR dogs and ppl could function at all for more than a few minutes in those circumstances.

If the dogs (and ppl) missed BT in the search radius, seems understandable imo.
SAR search in a shopping mall or office bldg, w level floors, and temp of 60-70F? <<< sounds more like 'optimal' for SAR dogs & ppl, imo.

 

[CSIDreamer]

The fact is that the only public statements from him are in two media interviews.
And it is a fact that such interviews are routinely cut to fit the required transmission time.
We can be certain that he gave more details to the police.

Sure. But we don't know what they cut, if they did, is my point. Adding ideas to interviews and then saying "it was probably cut" makes little sense.

 

[10ofRods]

I believe the Sheriff’s office spokesperson is speculating on public speculation.

snipped for focus

Surely the one thing we can all agree on is that RT thinks BT was abducted as we can see and hear his own words saying so.

I can agree that he said that's what he thinks. What he is really thinking is not available to any of us.

Thanks for the great timeline, btw. I'm trying to add the point where RT says he was polygraphed. That's on the 16th, I think?

I am also assuming that he left the Mojave Preserve to be polygraphed. He says LE asked him to leave (something about not being in a crime scene?) I think he said he was still looking day and night. So while he puts out the abduction theory to the public, he's also still looking for her at the disappearance site (that's how I understand it anyway). That seems normal and natural to me (that he'd have more than one theory about where she is).

I just don't know when he was asked to leave (and that he was asked to leave is a bit odd, but okay, that's how the SBCS wants it).

I do know that if it was my loved one or a good friend, I'd be back out there, even now, looking.

 

[al66pine]

One Spouse as Sherpa/Quartermaster?

.... my husband will be the one to wear a backpack and lug all our stuff on day trips. ....when my kids were young and we’d go as a family to an amusement park. He would carry the pack with the kids’ junk and snacks, etc. We were together, so it seemed to make sense.
.... RT and BT were doing their walk together, so it doesn’t seem odd that he would be carrying all the supplies, to me.

@slowpoke Thx for your post. snipped for focus.
Yes, your system makes sense for your family. For one thing, while he was the sherpa/quartermaster w supplies to dole out on request, you were 'herding' the kids, right? A division of labor, more practical than one person trying to handle both tasks. Second, in your example at an amusement park, even if you & kids separated rom husband, you could easily access/buy water/bev's, and nobody in the fam would die of thirst.

If/when BT & RT separated in desert, and if out of field of view and if out of earshot and if he carried all the water/bev's aside from her beer, then possible that she could die of thirst (or other med condition), by his inability to see or hear her in peril. Not in the 5-10-15 min's of separation he or she anticipated. But if he had not been able to locate her in that short period, then who knows how long it would be until he or others could locate her. Sure enough, they could not.

I feel we are/I am again discussing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, as LE said it found no evd of BT there.
But the water/bev carrying issue is something for all of us to consider in on the occasions where it arises in our own lives.

 

[10ofRods]

It was 91 today where I live and I am several decades younger than Barb and STILL thought I would die of heat stroke after 2 minutes walking in the sun at 1-3pm. It sounds like perfect conditions for a 69 year young woman to perish. Remains are exceedingly difficult to see in a desert/rocky terrain until they bleach (9 mos or so).

But the searchers didn't find a single trace.
The dogs didn't smell her in optimal conditions.
No mention of buzzards or ravens.
No clothing, no cup.

If she is around there, I have to believe she is under rocks, buried or obscured in the creekbed.
I truly hope they can search again with some good dogs in the coming months as it cools off. And I hope they got a warrant for the house and the camper.

I agree with you that it's likely her body is obscured, if she's out there. And I think she's out there.

No ravens in that part of the Mojave, so far as I know (we're birdwatchers, especially my husband).

Interestingly, a recent study says that there are about half the number of vultures in the Mojave than there used to be. They think it may be because it's hotter:

Nevada-California desert ‘half empty’ of birds after population collapse

Just one more aspect to the "perfect storm" of not being able to find Barbara. As the search period went on, it got hotter (and now we're in the hottest month). Dogs couldn't find scent in the dry, hot desert pan. The number of potential square miles where she could be found if she wandered, delirious due to heat exhaustion, means far more searching needs to be done, but people and dogs can't be out there for very long right now...worst time of year to go missing, really.

 

[Stripehaven]

It only matters what BT was thinking at specific decision points.

What she was thinking, and what was possible

 

[Ninety5rpm]

Can someone provide or point me to a summary of all salient points and facts about this case? I don't feel like sifting through all these threads. Thanks!

 

[rosesfromangels]

What she was thinking, and what was possible

If we only knew....

 

[LAhiker]

Can someone provide or point me to a summary of all salient points and facts about this case? I don't feel like sifting through all these threads. Thanks!

I suggest reading through the first 13 posts of this earlier thread, which were mostly taken from earlier threads and contain information and links important to the case.

CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #5

 

[MsBetsy]

I don't know what the timings were, but he was saying that after a couple of days of searching, wasn't he? My first thought was that he might cling to the abduction idea as the best hope of her still being alive. But at the same time, know deep down that it wasn't likely.

Yes, and that was also more than a month ago so it's hard to say what he believes now. He may know more about the investigation that would lead him to think otherwise.

Anytime a woman disappears close to a road it's common to assume an abduction situation.

That she seemed to vanish so quickly and he searched for her right away and couldn't find her may be why he immediately thought she had been kidnapped. Imo

 

[rosesfromangels]

One Spouse as Sherpa/Quartermaster?

@slowpoke Thx for your post. snipped for focus.
Yes, your system makes sense for your family. For one thing, while he was the sherpa/quartermaster w supplies to dole out on request, you were 'herding' the kids, right? A division of labor, more practical than one person trying to handle both tasks. Second, in your example at an amusement park, even if you & kids separated rom husband, you could easily access/buy water/bev's, and nobody in the fam would die of thirst.

If/when BT & RT separated in desert, and if out of field of view and if out of earshot and if he carried all the water/bev's aside from her beer, then possible that she could die of thirst (or other med condition), by his inability to see or hear her in peril. Not in the 5-10-15 min's of separation he or she anticipated. But if he had not been able to locate her in that short period, then who knows how long it would be until he or others could locate her. Sure enough, they could not.

I feel we are/I am again discussing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, as LE said it found no evd of BT there.
But the water/bev carrying issue is something for all of us to consider in on the occasions where it arises in our own lives.

Love this post. Someone I know came to mind immediately. The “quartermaster!”

 

[Ninety5rpm]

Here is a Google street view link to a point on Kelbaker Rd 20 miles north of I-40, per this article:

"The San Bernardino Sheriff’s Department is actively searching for a lost hiker in the Mojave Desert, 20 miles north of Interstate 40 and east of Kelbaker Road."

If she's really there, I'm surprised dogs can't find her. She can't get very far without supplies.

 

[slowpoke]

One Spouse as Sherpa/Quartermaster?

@slowpoke Thx for your post. snipped for focus.
Yes, your system makes sense for your family. For one thing, while he was the sherpa/quartermaster w supplies to dole out on request, you were 'herding' the kids, right? A division of labor, more practical than one person trying to handle both tasks. Second, in your example at an amusement park, even if you & kids separated rom husband, you could easily access/buy water/bev's, and nobody in the fam would die of thirst.

If/when BT & RT separated in desert, and if out of field of view and if out of earshot and if he carried all the water/bev's aside from her beer, then possible that she could die of thirst (or other med condition), by his inability to see or hear her in peril. Not in the 5-10-15 min's of separation he or she anticipated. But if he had not been able to locate her in that short period, then who knows how long it would be until he or others could locate her. Sure enough, they could not.

I feel we are/I am again discussing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, as LE said it found no evd of BT there.
But the water/bev carrying issue is something for all of us to consider in on the occasions where it arises in our own lives.

Ha, thanks for the chuckle of that visual of Sherpa/quartermaster, and me as the herder. You are right on, that’s how it was.

Yes, I always learn so many things from participating here. I’d like to think it will all make me more aware, and smarter if I ever get into a bad situation.

For instance, thanks to one of your prior posts I googled and am considering getting one of those signaling mirrors. Seems easy to carry around due to size. I do a lot of local little hikes, mostly alone (but not isolated), so thank you and others for all the good ideas on what to carry.