Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #18

[sandbar]

As far as audio, if they were on Twitch and Youtube Gaming then they were streaming their games and somewhere there is likely evidence of that MOO

Thanks for that!

I can see how there would possibly be a record of their IP address or whatever connecting at particular times, but would Twitch or YouTube keep an audio file or conversations? That would get enormous, no? Maybe a voice to text file?

 

[NJSleuth91]

I think it’s impossible to get any sense of somebody by a few comments made from casual acquaintances to the media at a time when the two were still believed to be missing.

Many of those comments were made after they were suspects, like Kam's friend who was interviewed by 60 Minutes.

Why the need to “know” either of these two given they’re accused of murdering three innocent people? Obviously something was severely unhinged about both of them and as they chose to take their own lives, they were too cowardly to take responsibility.

Because psychopathology is interesting to me? As well as the progression of events that causes young people with no known history of violent actions to suddenly turn to violence? Isn't the "wtf were they thinking" question the reason why most people have become so interested in this case?

 

[elondriel]

Thanks for that!

I can see how there would possibly be a record of their IP address or whatever connecting at particular times, but would Twitch or YouTube keep an audio file or conversations? That would get enormous, no? Maybe a voice to text file?

My fault, if they were streaming then it would be a video file. I know way back people were trying to see if any of their videos were still available (myself included) and could not find any. I found one of their gaming friend's youtube channel, but he had removed all of the videos. (google showed the thumbnails but his actual channel was empty and don't know if those videos were related to them playing or not).

 

[MistyWaters]

Because psychopathology is interesting to me? As well as the progression of events that causes young people with no known history of violent actions to suddenly turn to violence? Isn't the "wtf were they thinking" question the reason why most people have become so interested in this case?

How do we know they had no prior history of violence or criminal behaviour? People close to the two are not going to tell the media the life history of these two. Why would they? The homicides they’re accused of are horrific enough without SM spouting off to the family members, Child Services, mental health experts, the Port Alberni police or the community in general (pick one) with “why didn’t you do something, you should have known!” because that’s what always happens when any sort of negative background in the slightest leaks into the media. If anything, I’m certain those closest want to be left alone in dealing with their grief and regrets. Remember there’s also other younger families members who are impacted by this tragedy, aside from B&K’s parents. Extended family could also include dozens of cousins living in Port Alberni who are school-aged as well.

When the final police report is issued, they may include background history but I wouldn’t expect it to be detailed. JMO

 

[srper2]

DBM

 

[sandbar]

My fault, if they were streaming then it would be a video file. I know way back people were trying to see if any of their videos were still available (myself included) and could not find any. I found one of their gaming friend's youtube channel, but he had removed all of the videos. (google showed the thumbnails but his actual channel was empty and don't know if those videos were related to them playing or not).

Again, thanks, you've had a wasted youth? And we benefit from your knowledge.

 

[NJSleuth91]

How do we know they had no prior history of violence or criminal behaviour? People close to the two are not going to tell the media the life history of these two. Why would they?

So far there's no known history of violence or criminal behavior. Usually those things would have come out by now in a case like this. The guy who helped them out of the mud even said the police seemed baffled by the case and told him Kam and Bryer had no criminal records. I know some people choose to doubt that guy's story, but personally I don't.

Why wouldn't they? Several people close to them have been interviewed and have had no problem with talking about Bryer's weird behavior and his family's issues. If they didn't have a problem with showing the media his Nazi and militia looking pictures, talking about his homicide and suicide threats and praise of Hitler, and telling the media how he had a "s****y life" growing up, why would they have a problem with telling the media about any criminal or violent history?

 

[FactFinder3000]

As for BS fidgeting I’m not in agreement. He is buttoning up his jacket. When they are rounding the corner at aisle 19 he is buttoning around his chest area, I can see his T-shirt exposed and then by the time they exit the store it is done up to his collar. Also, the jacket is loose/open at the bottom so unless his undershirt is holding the item and is tucked in whatever he has in the chest area would fall out. Unless he has something stuffed in his sleeves and keeping his arms in a certain position (by buttoning) keeps the item(s) more secure or less obvious.

It does not appear they purchased anything that would require a bag or visible carry out but if it was a small item it could have been pocketed after payment.

Could you maybe post a screenshot of this? Because I have watched the video 1000 times and at no point have I ever seen Bryer's shirt. As far as we can tell, all the fussing with the buttons is purely for show.

Also, shoplifters tuck their loot into their pants. It would not fall out of the jacket because it is not in the jacket. It's in the pants.

 

[sandbar]

“why didn’t you do something, you should have known!”

Ha, those types of questions would come out of a coroner's inquest. It's hard to say if an inquest will be called, if so there'll be plenty of time to point fingers and lay blame.

 

[MistyWaters]

So far there's no known history of violence or criminal behavior. Usually those things would have come out by now in a case like this. The guy who helped them out of the mud even said the police seemed baffled by the case and told him Kam and Bryer had no criminal records. I know some people choose to doubt that guy's story, but personally I don't.

Why wouldn't they? Several people close to them have been interviewed and have had no problem with talking about Bryer's weird behavior and his family's issues. If they didn't have a problem with showing the media his Nazi and militia looking pictures, talking about his homicide and suicide threats and praise of Hitler, and telling the media how he had a "s****y life" growing up, why would they have a problem with telling the media about any criminal or violent history?

Why would prior history “come out” and what do you base “usually in a case like this”? As a Canadian I can say had the two not died by suicide, had there been an arrest instead, I am certain it would’ve been at least two years into the future before we’d learn any evidence supporting the criminal charges. Even then, life history is almost always immaterial to conviction except in the case of a NCR defence.

Confidential records, whether it be through the Juvenile Justice system or Child Services or sealed police reports are not available to the media. That’s just the way it is. It’s designed to give a young adult a second chance after they reach the age of majority.

 

[srper2]

The band constables were not wearing uniforms although reportedly they wore a fluorescent vests. They would never be driving a vehicle resembling a RCMP vehicle so I can see why it’d be easy for anyone to mistake them for construction workers. Construction workers do not carry weapons.

The evidence to support the two died by suicide is contained in the autopsy file but that will definitely not be released to the general public to “prove” it.

I wasn't talking about what the band constables could look like or what they could be mistaken for. I was replying to a previous post. Please read back through the posts that were replied to and you will understand.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Why would prior history “come out” and what do you base “usually in a case like this”? As a Canadian I can say had the two not died by suicide, had there been an arrest instead, I am certain it would’ve been at least two years into the future before we’d have known anything. That would take place during the trial.

In media coverage of mass murders, etc. there's usually stuff that comes out about history fairly quickly. Like within a few days of it happening. In the Boston bombings, even though one of them went on trial, there were tons of articles about his history and interviewing people who knew him, that came out within a few weeks. Same with James Holmes. The information doesn't have to come from the police.

And a lot about Bryer's history has come out, and even a decent amount about Kam's history. Why would this one important component be withheld from the media when so much else came out? It's much more likely that there simply isn't any prior criminal or violent history. That may be hard for some people to accept (although it's not unheard of in these cases), but that's what the evidence currently indicates.

Even if the juvenile records were sealed, there would likely be gossip around town of any prior criminal history.

 

[srper2]

Chat functions in game as far as text goes, you can have global chat meaning anyone on that server sees, you can have group chat for just your group, and pending on the game you can private message people. I am not sure a chat log is kept or kept for long, but I know in one game I played if there was harassment going on you typed /report or something similar and it saved a chat log back for so many lines so that a moderator could look at it.

So pretty much unless someone took screenshots of things that were potentially said by Bryer and Kam then there is no record for text based communication. And even then with Photoshop you can alter the images so. As far as audio, if they were on Twitch and Youtube Gaming then they were streaming their games and somewhere there is likely evidence of that MOO.

DBM

 

[Pyecraft]

In reading your past few posts I’m intrigued by what your overall theory is. Do you think they played any part in the crimes? Were they set up? Framed? I’m just not wrapping my head around the big picture you’re painting and would appreciate clarification.

Hello steelybird, I'm equally as happy to clarify as have the faults in my theory disproved.

No, I don't think they played any part in either of the crimes.
But neither were they set up.
Framed, I believe they were.

The bigger picture is begun painting by two youths with zero life experience, zero work resume or ethic, setting out to find work in differing tall tales of somewhere 'up north'. My reading of some excellent analysis here is that they possessed the mind set of fifteen year olds.

I don't know much about gaming but for this: you can start over and over again anytime you've been 'killed', and being not allowed to play causes tantrums.

My theory has them tiring pretty quickly after the long first drive, and beginning to lounge around at campsites in uncertainty, drinking and plugged-in. They eventually were spotted by some seriously evil dude who offered them some easy cash, by driving a rav4 he'd just bought back to his cabin in Manitoba. They would meet up at the designated isolation, for their pay, then drive back to BC to collect their campertruck.

Early in their drive, the truck is then torched close to LD's corpse, with no intent to hide it. The pair follow their given route to Manitoba and are indeed met at some point later by the same guy. To get to his own vehicle for the pay-out and drive back, he leads them through the scrub before shooting them, with their own gun or one that can be traced back to LD. The rav4 is torched on his way out, acting as a further link.

The horrific killings require a certain rage and execution which appears to my experience as being way, way beyond anything these two kids were capable of producing. Then of course, there is drug-induced erratic behaviour which overrides all logic.

Sitting in a juror's seat for a moment, I'd be looking for no 'doubts' of guilt. There won't be a trial however, frankly everything I've read so far would have us dismissed in time for lunch.

 

[srper2]

How do we know they had no prior history of violence or criminal behaviour? People close to the two are not going to tell the media the life history of these two. Why would they? The homicides they’re accused of are horrific enough without SM spouting off to the family members, Child Services, mental health experts, the Port Alberni police or the community in general (pick one) with “why didn’t you do something, you should have known!” because that’s what always happens when any sort of negative background in the slightest leaks into the media. If anything, I’m certain those closest want to be left alone in dealing with their grief and regrets. Remember there’s also other younger families members who are impacted by this tragedy, aside from B&K’s parents. Extended family could also include dozens of cousins living in Port Alberni who are school-aged as well.

When the final police report is issued, they may include background history but I wouldn’t expect it to be detailed. JMO

I don't know if employers like Walmart in Canada require police checks (or whatever you call them in Canada!), but I doubt if BS and CM had a history of violence and criminal behaviour they would be offered jobs there. Nothing has been said about this all along that I have seen.

 

[MistyWaters]

In media coverage of mass murders, etc. there's usually stuff that comes out about history fairly quickly. Like within a few days of it happening. In the Boston bombings, even though one of them went on trial, there were tons of articles about his history and interviewing people who knew him, that came out within a few weeks. Same with James Holmes. The information doesn't have to come from the police.

And a lot about Bryer's history has come out, and even a decent amount about Kam's history. Why would this one important component be withheld from the media when so much else came out? It's much more likely that there simply isn't any prior criminal or violent history. That may be hard for some people to accept (although it's not unheard of in these cases), but that's what the evidence currently indicates.

Even if the juvenile records were sealed, there would likely be gossip around town of any prior criminal history.

That was the point I was attempting to make, you cannot compare cases you’ve followed in the US to cases in Canada. We are a different country. Here there’s no advantage to local Police Departments attempting to gain public approval by leaking information because they are not elected or appointed by political parties. They just do their job, even if the public becomes annoyed when they hold information about investigations tight to their chest - that’s what they’re supposed to do, known as confidentiality.

 

[FactFinder3000]

Even if the juvenile records were sealed, there would likely be gossip around town of any prior criminal history.

What do you mean "even if"? When you turn 18 they are wiped clean. No ifs, ands , or buts about it.

So we have zero knowledge of their prior criminal history.

 

[sandbar]

They would meet up at the designated isolation, for their pay, then drive back to BC to collect their campertruck.

sbm

So K&B would meet up with the seriously evil dude at some location? Pick up their pay. Then, what would K&B drive back to their camper truck in?

 

[CanadianMade]

I don't know if employers like Walmart in Canada require police checks (or whatever you call them in Canada!), but I doubt if BS and CM had a history of violence and criminal behaviour they would be offered jobs there. Nothing has been said about this all along that I have seen.

Wal-mart very likely does not do Criminal Record Checks, except for maybe for their loss prevention positions. MAYBE management positions, but I doubt that even.
Most retail positions don't ask for that here.

 

[MistyWaters]

I don't know if employers like Walmart in Canada require police checks (or whatever you call them in Canada!), but I doubt if BS and CM had a history of violence and criminal behaviour they would be offered jobs there. Nothing has been said about this all along that I have seen.

No, Walmart definitely does not require a police check for night stock persons. Any job that does is required to post it along with the job advertisement because the employee is required to obtain it directly from police. As juvenile records are sealed, juveniles essentially have no record.